For Christians
Taken from: http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/5599/hpq/ – I DID NOT WRITE THIS…
To have any credibility in my eyes, please reply with decent answers to junaman@gmail.com
The Hierophant’s Proselytiser Questionnaire
0. If necessary, use this space to explain any unique beliefs your sect has about the nature of your god, heaven, hell, the Bible, the Holy Spirit/Ghost, Satan, etc.
1. Explain why your god’s only son had to die so we can go to magic happy land when we croak.
2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.
3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of “heretics” throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until there were so few that the government could simply take their land; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the reforms of the seventeenth century.
4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.
5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not members of your particular sect.
6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).
7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.
8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that discrimination against women solely on the basis of sex is morally acceptable.
9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that slavery is an acceptable way to run a society.
10. Explain why children should submit to their parents’ decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.
11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: “Many are called but few are chosen,” and “Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it.” If your god loves all of us, couldn’t he find a better way?
12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 100 words.
13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.
14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.
15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone’s personality.
16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.
17. What is Heaven like?
18. What is Hell like?
19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.
20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.
21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it’s OK for your god to engage in a practice that our modern-day courts of law refer to as “entrapment.”
22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered “bad” by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be “bad,” then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.
23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.
24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.
25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?
26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy, is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the “divinely inspired” argument: Because I am not religious, I will not be able to accept it).
27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?
28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?
29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn’t free will.
30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, “I will harden Pharaoh’s heart.”). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.
31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? Jesus was at least a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.
32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn’t he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn’t we then be worshipping Judas?
33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).
34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.
35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force to intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.
36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain in the ass because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.
37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.
38. Define the word “Christ,” including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.
39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).
40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.
41. The name “Jesus” has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information? This is a bonus question.
42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?
43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?
44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament seems to suggest that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).
45. Explain why spreading the “truth of Christ” requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Wiccans (so-called “white witches”) worship the Christian devil. (Incidentally, they don’t, and this rumor has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE).
46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said “son of man” quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as “a son of god,” but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time. Someone who was “a son of god” was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites’ belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don’t believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?
47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the “turn the other cheek” idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/philosopher/ethicist?
48. When Jesus said, “Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also,” why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don’t we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?
49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn’t the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?
50. Explain how your god can be “just and merciful” in light of Exodus 20:5.
51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic asshole (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn’t like much).
52. Explain why your “just and merciful” god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elisha “baldhead.” (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).
53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).
54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?
55. Are all members of other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.
56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.
57. What was your motive in proselytizing to me?
58. Where is Heaven?
59. Where is Hell?
60. Why don’t animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?
61. Why does Satan try to get peoples’ souls?
62. Once Satan has someone’s soul, what does he do with it?
63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.
64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive?
65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.
66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.
67. Why do good people so often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.
68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.
69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.
70. What is sin, exactly?
71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).
72. Explain why Christians have harassed Wiccans (”white witches”) for almost two thousand years now, when the central rule of the Wiccan ethical system is “an it harm no one, do what thou wilt.”
73. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-semetism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).
74. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn’t this also constitute “entrapment?”
75. If we are created in your god’s image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?
76. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.
77. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn’t life confusing enough already?
78. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)
79. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).
80. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Explain your answer.
81. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.
82. What exactly is faith?
83. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.
84. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Wouldn’t your god better spend his time punishing unbelievers?
85. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?
86. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.
87. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn’t it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.
88. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?
89. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn’t prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.
90. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”; Luke 23:46: “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit”; John 19:30: “It is finished”).
91. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” This has traditionally been translated as, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” However, a more accurate translation would be, “My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?” El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?
92. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is “The LORD is my shepherd.” (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.
93. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer. NOTE: I admit that science has not explained where the original supercondensed particle came from, but no one has ever explained where your god came from, either.
94. If your god is everywhere at the same time, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent?
95. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn’t Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.
96. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then he cannot possibly be omnipresent. How could he possibly get as many followers as you seem to think he has?
97. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn’t this at least a little bit absurd? Justify your answer.
98. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn’t Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.
99. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert me to a religion that you don’t know that much about? Isn’t knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn’t understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?
100. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?
101. Is Jesus’s three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?
102. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, what translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.
103. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. Name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.
104. Before Mary was knocked up by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god knocked her up; this strongly suggests that he didn’t want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god? Do you think rape is wrong? Explain.
105. According to Luke, Mary knew that she was pregnant with the Messiah. Living in the times she lived in, she must have known the scripture; therefore, she must have known that he would have to suffer horribly during his life. Was it moral for Mary to carry her baby to term, or would it have been more humane for her to have an abortion? Explain.
106. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).
107. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?
108. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?
109. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn’t this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?
110. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn’t the other three gospels mention it? Why didn’t the Roman soldiers get into trouble?
111. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn’t this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn’t Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?
112. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?
113. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?
114. Don’t you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?
115. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the “offspring of David.” Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn’t this mean that Jesus wasn’t the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?
116. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don’t complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn’t complain about what their maker (supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.
117. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.
118. If your god is “just and merciful,” why would he take Solomon’s kingdom away from Solomon’s son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon’s son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).
119. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I’d do what he said.
120. Don’t you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book “Song of Solomon” is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to “drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate.” The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the “spiced wine” represented menstrual blood).
121. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the ankh, was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol– a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).
122. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-christians?
123. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?
124. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?
125. What are your beliefs concerning Wicca? (”white witchcraft”). How much do you know about Wicca?
126. What do you think the word “Satanist” means?
127. How do you explain the fact that the word “blood” occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn’t this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?
128. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren’t you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?
129. Numbers 23:21 says that your god “has not seen wickedness in Israel.” If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Is your god a liar, or was it just more convenient for him to lie at that particular place and time, or what?
130. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?
131. What was it about humanity’s torturing and killing of your god’s only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him.
132. How do you explain that Matthew and Luke give different genealogies for Jesus?
133. Matthew says that the prophecy given in Matthew 27:9 was given by Jeremiah. How do you explain that this prophecy was not given by Jeremiah at all, but by Zechariah (in Zech 11:12)?
134. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?
135. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?
136. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?
137. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?
138. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means “God with us.” Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?
139. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in this paper, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.
140. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. “sinning in your heart”; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?
141. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?
142. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument. (Assume I mean for you to use the academic definition of criticize).
143. Pick an argument against the existence of your god. If it is not a famous argument, copy it down here. Criticize this argument. (Assume I mean for you to use the academic definition of the word criticize).
144. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.
145. What is your definition of the word Christian?
146. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?
147. If someone accepts Jesus, and is “saved,” but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?
148. Where did your god come from?
149. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects says that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?
Where did you get this? I’m sure you didn’t spend a whole day writing this, and I’m sure you haven’t read the Bible…
Comment by zomgmouse — 27 August, 2006 #
I have read the Old Testament (puke) – it is rather hilarious… like Douglas Adams yet more, you know, nonsensical
I got this from Hierophant… look it up on google…
Comment by junaman — 27 August, 2006 #
well… junaman, the problems all have something to do with humans…
Take this as a mathematical equation
god = perfect, or theta, alpha and omega, the beginning and the end
human – god =0 (1)
human + god =infinity (2)
i’ll come back to you on that… havent thought of any equations to solve…
Comment by creative — 29 August, 2006 #
How does human – god = 0????
wtf????
if god is perfect and human’s are not. would not god- human =
Comment by junaman — 29 August, 2006 #
Are ANY christians out there going to respond to this??
I dont think you can, but i encourage you to have a go so that junaman can tear you apart!
Your religion revolts me!
Comment by you no — 31 August, 2006 #
Wow! This is a really good questionaire. I am a Christian and feel very compelled to answer this! Give me a little time to fill this all out.
I really like the sarcasm in some of the questions. Like the tree used for shade thing… classic!
Comment by Jonathan — 2 September, 2006 #
juam man
Comment by me — 3 September, 2006 #
ok, first of fuck you why don’t you actually post the quotes in stead of the numbers? i hope you go to hell and get raped by a big black gay man
Comment by me — 3 September, 2006 #
Quotes? Numbers?
Are you too lazy to go look all of them up.. cbf going through you own holy book???
Shame
Comment by junaman — 3 September, 2006 #
Oh, and being big, black and gay will most certainly warrant him a place in hell won’t it…..
FUCK YOU
Comment by junaman — 3 September, 2006 #
Brilliant! I wish I could have thrown this in my Religious Studies teacher’s face…
Comment by The Gibbon — 5 September, 2006 #
Juna Man-A fantastic post. Found myself nodding a long to practically every item on there.
I used to consider myself (nominally at least) a “Christian”, but I never really cared much for church, or the organised part of it. Nowadays I don’t consider myself a Christian at all. A book that totally changed my views on christianity was ‘Holy Blood, Holy Grail (it was in the news recently due to the court case between it’s authors and Dan “Da Vinci Code” Brown.). ‘Holy Blood, Holy Grail’ had a huge impact on me, and changed my beliefs for good.
It basically questions everything, pretty much the same way you have. Would definitely recommend it!
Sorry to have rambled, just wanted to commend you on such a brilliant post.
Oh and this? “i hope you go to hell and get raped by a big black gay man” Hilarious. I’m sorry, but I’m guessing you call yourself a christian, judging by the amount of vitriol aimed at Juna Man? What’s the deal with the homphobia and racism hmm? How insanely hypocritical.I thought your God commands you to “love thy neighbour”.I don’t see much love in that sentence, that’s for sure.
Comment by jennacb — 6 September, 2006 #
umm lol… nice questions. im sure no one could possible give u valid solid anser to each and every one of your questions. i kinda consider myself christian but, at time church + people piss me off so ill jus leave it at i believe that there is a god. but, i guess the best way to get answers to ur questions is to simply …. kill yourself and see what happens (not to be an ass)and if god appears i guess he’ll pull it up online and answer each and every question lol
Comment by LOL — 12 September, 2006 #
Hey,
I feel bad that you and so many others feel so negatively about Christianity. Your questions, at least the majority, are impossible to answer properly. There is a certain mystery to any religion; and you either get it or you don’t. I’ll pray for you nonetheless.
Comment by Dave — 12 September, 2006 #
No one owns the definition of “Christian” even though its logical definition is follower of Christ. To believe in Christ and follow his teachings does not necessitate belief in what Paul said of him (and women and gays). It does not necessitate the belief in other authors of books in the Bible.
Although many (most, I’d say) Christians aren’t true pure followers of Christ, that does not invalidate the teachings of Christ. Just because I hate the Crusades and close-minded evangelicals, does not mean that Jesus or his teachings are flawed.
To assume so is akin to hating the New York Yankees because you hate Yankees fans. I hate most Radiohead fans, but I still think Radiohead is a great band. Likewise, most Christians piss me off, but I still align myself with the teachings of Jesus.
Comment by pablo — 12 September, 2006 #
Juanaman…
I am a Christian, but I am not part of a religion. Christianity is about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and accepting him into your heart by faith. By the sounds of it you have been hurt by religion and I am sorry that you have been confused by religion’s relationship to God and the bible. The bible was given to us as a guide, but it doesn’t say that things or even Christians have always been good and perfect. But it is more about a walk/the path of life that we must all choose which road to go. The straight and narrow or the path into ourselves that only ends in emptiness. I won’t argue with you or anyone else on this blog because there is no need. But I do want to apologize to you because aparently you have not met the real Jesus yet. I do have hope that one day you will meet him and get to know him personally.
No matter what you think, believe or feel know that your life matters and I wish you the best. I wouldn’t worry as much about arguing the bible and the faith of others, as much as deciding and living out your own choices. Let God speak to you and love you and to show you the love he has for all of us – the good and the evil. His love is the cause of the freewill in which you question so much.
If you are looking for more answers I would like to recommend a couple of websites…
http://www.rickwarren.com
http://www.billygraham.com
Comment by - — 13 September, 2006 #
God loves the sinner, but detests the sin. This is no contradiction, they are two different things and he can love us even in our shortcomings because he chooses to. that’s true love.
Comment by - — 13 September, 2006 #
Apply the last comment to homosexuality. Why are people homosexual if “God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve”.
It is scientifically proven that people are born as homosexuals, and that our supposedly God-given Free Will has nothing to do with it.
Assuming God made the 1 in 10 of us who are not straight, isn’t it fair to assume that homosexuality is not a sin? Or, of course, we always just say that your God got some things wrong. Namely the millions of gay men and women on the planet that have been born since the beginning of man.
In America alone there are currently 600,000 gay couples. Now think how big China and India are…
The Disciples get their arse handed to them over homosexuality.
Comment by porcelainmonkey — 13 September, 2006 #
148. Where did your god come from?
Not that I am a Christian, but I am pretty sure this is their answer.
God is everlasting right? Been here from the word go. So he didn’t come from anywhere. He was where he was all along.
It is like when someone asks, “What came before the Big Bang?” Nothing! There was nothing to come from.
You just have to get your head around the concept. God – if he exists – has been around forever.
Comment by porcelainmonkey — 13 September, 2006 #
“Your questions, at least the majority, are impossible to answer properly.”
I liked what Dave said here. In reality this post breaks many rules of logic. fallacies.
To cite an example; Here is your line of reasoning;
10. Explain why children should submit to their parents’ decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.
Children are asked to obey their parents and that is clearly in the Bible. However, when you get to your second premise, you know the one “even when those decisions are clearly evil.” One has to suppose that if a parent was evil or asked a child to do an evil deed in the scripture that God would be angry if they disobeyed. However there is nothing in scripture that states that children are to listen to parents who ask them to do an evil deed. Actually the opposite is shown many times. Saul asked his son Jonathon to kill David. Jonathon disobeyed Saul but never received any kind of punishment. (That is just one example there are many in scripture.)
First premise is true
Second premise is false
= false conclusion
The rule? all premises have to be true in order for the conclusion to be true.
Most of what you do here is appeal to the pity of the audience and thus try to create an emotional angry picture of Christians.
Is it valid to ask today’s Christian why we believe in slavery? Why we want to punish people different than us? etc.. when in all reality none of that is true. I don’t see any Christian’s on the news trying to get slavery back on board – shooting bullets in the back of Native American’s. (Which by the way you really should read your history on that deal – protestant brought with them a nasty little deal called smallpox but that was hardly on purpose.) Protestants are not paying fiscal restitution to today’s Indian – our Government is – there really is a valid reason for that. Our Government hardly came in and did a mop up job on them that you seem to imply there.
You ask people to answer for the history of religious leaders that were simply wrong. No one can justify wrong acts in history. It’s like asking German’s to justify the holocaust when the leaders are long dead.
That’s fine – after you can answer this. How do you justify being an American citizen and be proud of that when obviously your forefathers raped, mutilated, abused and violated people of color?
There are some really valid questions here but it’s a difficult read because of all the emotional appeal in this it’s difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff.
If you could do that then it would be very easy to answer.
Comment by aullori — 13 September, 2006 #
@aullori
Regrading your first point about the two premises, actually it goes something like this.
First premise says it is right
Second premise says it is wrong =
Contradiction…
“Is it valid to ask today’s Christian why we believe in slavery? Why we want to punish people different than us? etc.. when in all reality none of that is true. I don’t see any Christian’s on the news trying to get slavery back on board”
Yes, because your holy book tells you to do so… and if you think that that is absurd (like me), then how can you believe anything else the book preaches… The main point of these questions is to show bible inconsistencies, absurdities and hypocrisies.
Same thing goes for justifying the holocaust…
If the same fascist government that started it was in power today, yes they would need to justify it, but fascism was wiped out, and asking Germans now to justify it is absurd because they don’t adhere to the philosophy that started it.
Christianity is the same religion today as the one that did all those bad things in the name of religion… so yes, they need justifying…
@ -
“God loves the sinner, but detests the sin.”
The question is what is sin?
Comment by junaman — 13 September, 2006 #
Dave PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont waste your time preying for any of us…dont waste your time preying…Its about as big an insult as you can give to me to prey for me when I absolutely hate the ideas you worship and I hate you christians.
If I had it my way you’d all be dead…
So PLEASE dont prey for me or ill have to burn your church{or other place of worship} in the name of the truth.
Comment by shrinkley — 13 September, 2006 #
Let’s start here;
“God loves the sinner, but detests the sin.”
The question is what is sin?
See this is what I meant that is a valid question without emotional appeal and thus it is easy to read and therefore answer.
Tech. speaking sin is defined by missing the mark – many references in the new testament use archery as an example and cut down to it’s simplest form sin simply means not hitting the bulls eye.
“Regrading your first point about the two premises, actually it goes something like this.
First premise says it is right
Second premise says it is wrong =
Contradiction…”
I kind of see your point here – only the second premise you mention isn’t in the Bible – nowhere. I’d challenge you to find a scripture that states that children are to obey the “evil” wishes of their parents.
“Is it valid to ask today’s Christian why we believe in slavery? Why we want to punish people different than us? etc.. when in all reality none of that is true. I don’t see any Christian’s on the news trying to get slavery back on board”
Your Quote; Yes, because your holy book tells you to do so… and if you think that that is absurd (like me), then how can you believe anything else the book preaches… The main point of these questions is to show bible inconsistencies, absurdities and hypocrisies.
See that’s my point – the Bible does not tell us to have slaves. (Not even in the scripture the quy quoted) Nowhere. The Bible does not tell us to kill Indians or anything that you claim here. The Bible told no one to hang “witches.”
In all religions – people have many times confused the difference between listening to the voice of God and thinking they are the voice of God. Arrogance. This is a mistake all religions have made. Your argument may create a strong point to not believe in any religion and that’s perfectly fine and reasonable. However this is not unique to Christianity.
There are no inconsistencies in scripture there is a sincere lack of knowledge on the part of us as human beings – that I can buy. However, I’ve found after many years of study that I often misinterpret scripture and I thank God I do. It gives me reason to keep in contact with the Author.
Your quote; Christianity is the same religion today as the one that did all those bad things in the name of religion… so yes, they need justifying…
Christianity is not the same religion as it was yesterday. That’s silly. I haven’t heard the National news cover any recent witch hangings. And I keep pretty abreast of current news.
My last point? I don’t follow a religion I follow my God – my God happens to be Christ. So to say, “your religion….” blah blah over and over in the famous words of Soren Kierkegaard
“Once you label me you negate me.”
Comment by aullori — 14 September, 2006 #
lol shrinkly – “prey”? that’s pedophiles, not christians. >_>
Comment by fat — 18 September, 2006 #
Gees sorry! fatty!
And ill leave out the crack about preists that were all thinking that I’d write!
Comment by shrinkley — 18 September, 2006 #
kiss my ass atheistic dickhead
Comment by italianstallion — 20 September, 2006 #
Umm… why?
Because I just owned everything you believe in?
Comment by junaman — 20 September, 2006 #
The entire notion of an all encompassing, infinitely powerfull being such as “god” really does not make any sense to me.
Christianity may be a load of BS but i think we have to remember that for all its contradictions people can still find solace and peace of mind in “god”,it instils the idea of compassion and love in the minds of its followers, it gives people peace of mind.
Its not really such a bad thing. Except that what they believe in does not exist. I say leave them in their ignorance, for all its obscurity its finnaly doing the world a favour.
Comment by Eris — 22 September, 2006 #
Evolution – God = 0
Creation – God = 0
Both require a god, athiesm is for hippies “we are imagining” ^^
Comment by oli — 23 September, 2006 #
Nothing requires a god….
Mathematical equations don’t prove god
BTW nothing in this article has anything disproving a god, just questioning Christianity…
Comment by junaman — 23 September, 2006 #
^It was aimed more at italianstallion.
Catholicism has really given Christianity a bad name, especially with the inquisitions.
I dont go to church, I pray to god, I accept Jesus and Holy Spirit (and God).
The Pope has also said some nasty things about muslims and arent Catholics ment to treat everyone with respect what ever their religion?
Comment by oli — 23 September, 2006 #
Fantastic! 149 strong points making an argument I completely agree with (http://petersattic.wordpress.com/2006/08/10/a-better-world-without-god/)
Comment by Peter N — 29 September, 2006 #
The belief in a god that thinks, acts and looks just like Charlton Heston is common amongst people with low IQs and especially amongst those with a poor understanding of math and science.
For more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence
Excerpt:
Belief in a personal God among scientists
In one study, 90% of the general population surveyed professed a distinct belief in a personal god and afterlife, while only 40% of the scientists with a BS surveyed did so, and only 10% of those considered “eminent.”. Another study found that mathematicians were just over 40%, biologists just under 30%, and physicists were barely over 20% likely to believe in God.
A 1998 survey by Larson and Witham of the 517 members of the United States National Academy of Sciences showed that 72.2% of the members expressed “personal disbelief” in a personal God while 20.8% expressed “doubt or agnosticism” and only 7.0% expressed “personal belief”. This was a follow-up to their own earlier 1996 study which itself was a follow-up to a 1916 study by James Leuba.
Comment by mnsinger — 29 September, 2006 #
if there is no god, then why did you let that priest touch you in your special place?
Comment by your mom — 1 October, 2006 #
Umm??? W….T….F?
Hahahahahah, you made a funny…
Would you care to clarify how the existence of a god would in any way relate to view that priests have touched me?
Comment by junaman — 1 October, 2006 #
Hey juna, this post still open to some answers?
You talk about “credibility”. If every question was answered, you’re saying your opinion of the answer-giver would change or of God?
Comment by albert — 2 October, 2006 #
Sorry, yes this was caught by Akismet for some reason… It is always open for some answers.
If these were answered my opinion of the person who answered them would change, and I would be open to further discussion.
I highly doubt that anything other than solid proof would change my opinion of god…
Comment by junaman — 2 October, 2006 #
[...] Hmmmm……Interesting…… [...]
Pingback by Sakuranbo! — 3 October, 2006 #
Hmm. If that’s the case, a few more questions:
1. What do you think about empiricism?
2. What is your current opinion of god?
and
3. What would you call solid proof?
Comment by albert — 3 October, 2006 #
82. What exactly is faith?
I’m not Christian but I can tell you what faith is. I don’t know how the computer works but I have faith that it will. I don’t know why the sun comes up in the morning but I have faith that it will.
I have faith in the law of cause and effect.
Faith is being almost certain of something.
Knowing is being 100% certain of a thing.
I know that I exist. I have faith that I will always exist because consciousness is the creator, not the created. I have faith in that but I do not know it for certain.
Comment by jeannie49 — 4 October, 2006 #
Wow, this is fantastic! I want to print your questionnaire out so that the next time Jehovah’s Witnesses come a proselytizing I can have it ready for them. But seriously, in our rapidly shrinking world, it seems to be becoming increasingly necessary for the religious amongst us to examine in a hard and unflinchingly truthful manner what it is that which they put their faith in. Otherwise one can easily slip in to the mindless zealotry of a religious fanatic or the witless knee-jerk obedience of a programmed drone.
Comment by 10pa — 5 October, 2006 #
“Hmm. If that’s the case, a few more questions:
1. What do you think about empiricism?
2. What is your current opinion of god?
and
3. What would you call solid proof?”
Sorry, I was procrastinating over your question for a while.
1. I’m not exactly sure whether I agree with empiricism or not as I do not exactly know what it encompasses. I do not agree with what jeannie49 said about faith, where she applied it to having faith whether a computer works or not. I believe that you know if a computer works from past experience.
The first time you turn it on, you find that it works, and hence you assume that the next time you do so, it will work again as nothing in your knowledge has changed inside the computer. If it does not work, then you realise that something has changed/was broken and you get someone to fix it.
I do not see how faith is involved in that.
Back to empiricism, I think that it is very hard to adhere to something like this. For example if you see a news report on TV, with someone talking about something not absurd, if you hear it from enough sources you may start to believe it, because you logically feel, from past experience, I guess, that something like this had every possibility of happening. So perhaps experience is involved in you believing that something, which you hear on TV.
However, I feel that many people would believe almost anything they are told a priori and hence propaganda is known to work throughout modern history.
2. My current opinion about god is that I feel that the idea is absurd, and that it was made up by humans to control others and their hip pockets with the notion of “hell” and punishment for not doing exactly what “god” says. I feel that this idea evolved though, to give people comfort outside their miserable, meaningless existence.
3. Solid proof would involve a combination of empirical evidence and confirmation of this proof by others. It would require god to show himself to everyone, and prove that he is god by performing an absurd, never before witnessed act, while under this veil of god. If he is god, I am sure he knows of a way to get people to believe in him.
Comment by junaman — 6 October, 2006 #
[...] This thread was brought here from this post to make things more readable. “Hmm. If that’s the case, a few more questions: 1. What do you think about empiricism? 2. What is your current opinion of god? and 3. What would you call solid proof?” [...]
Pingback by Junaman thread « Fundamentalist Christianity — 7 October, 2006 #
[Junaman: I've crossposted this on my site for an easier read.]
This thread was brought here from this post to make things more readable.
It’s cool, I know the feeling. You should see some of my emails. And the dates I respond to them by.
You can find a good definition at Wikipedia – see the entry. Basically, it’s the idea that knowledge is gained through experience alone, vs. being gained through rationalism. You could say that creation vs. evolution is something of a throwback to these ideas, where creationism might relate more to empiricism (God exists because of the testimony of others) and evolution might relate more to rationalism (scientific method).
This is actually an empiricist view of how a computer works.
Actually, faith is totally involved in it. Unless you’re a computer engineer or technician who both knows the theory behind the workings of a computer and has built the computer himself out of parts he has made personally, it would be impossible to say that faith wasn’t involved in at least a minute part of the process.
Even so, he must have faith in whomever sold the materials to him to be as stated. So faith becomes a part of the process regardless of theoretical knowledge and prior experience.
The example could have been a little bit better, but I think Jeannie sums it up pretty well:
Faith is knowing but with doubt, however small or large.
Your TV example is a better example of rationalism (a priori knowledge) rather than empiricism – the idea of people believing propaganda has more to do with examination of facts vs. belief of opinions.
Interesting. I was under the general idea that secularists were under the notion that ideas of god were more the lack of knowledge they possessed, leading them to believe god was the result of natural and sociopolitical phenomena, not to control populations for political ends (although your example has clearly become the norm).
I don’t see where you get your latter sentence unless you’re qualifying it as a hypothesis of your own (drawn on what seems an empiricist bias).
Hmm. So, your criteria for proof is based entirely on empiricism to determine God’s existence.
Do you think that’s good criteria?
Comment by albert — 7 October, 2006 #
Let me add this too – I think the things that are worthwhile will more often than not take a long time.
Comment by albert — 7 October, 2006 #
But if empiricism is knowledge gained through experience, then how would testimony of others be empirical? We did not experience god, or experience creationism…
Where as with evolution, we have witnessed how species have changed and evolved, and hence come up with this theory, which sounds more like empiricism to me.
But why must it be faith? Why can we not just see if it works, and then assume it will from past experience…
I think that last sentence was meant to be more about the belief in god due to lack of knowledge that science, or anything else can offer them…
I was partially assuming that god existed outside the realm of rational and scientific of thought, and hence the only way to prove him would be through empirical knowledge.
What would be an idea of god based on rationalism?
Comment by junaman — 7 October, 2006 #
Your second sentence is exactly it – the theist argues that he does experience god. That’s why testimony can be such a powerful influence on others.
“I switched from brand X to brand Y of detergent, and now it works great!”
-> person A watching commercial switches to brand Y.
“God freed me from my sickness and cured my addiction to drugs and alcohol, and here and I stand before you today.”
Whether or not it’s true is another story, proven by the test of time on that person’s character.
You’re right, it was an empirical method. The differences are that one is subjective, and the other is arguably objective. But they’re both empirical.
It’s really the only explanation for the new-age religionists out there who’ve claimed they’ve “had an experience with god”.
It’s faith because it contains doubt, however small or large. If the computer engineer has one speck of doubt as to who the provider of the materials is he’s building the computer with, then it’s faith. It might be small, but it’s still faith.
I think this means you’re critical of subjective empiricism. I can agree with that. But if you’re offering science (or moreso “objectivity”) as an only method to the gaining of knowledge, I would have to strongly disagree.
No, absolutely not. You should look up the Age of Enlightenment on Wiki – the majority of theistic argument up to the point of Darwin was based entirely on rationalism.
How about…
“God” is an absolute objectivity. Therefore, whether or not we believe “he” exists has no inkling on “his” actual existence.
Comment by albert — 8 October, 2006 #
[...] A continuation of Part 1. [link: original thread] A: You could say that creation vs. evolution is something of a throwback to these ideas, where creationism might relate more to empiricism (God exists because of the testimony of others) and evolution might relate more to rationalism (scientific method). J: But if empiricism is knowledge gained through experience, then how would testimony of others be empirical? We did not experience god, or experience creationism… [...]
Pingback by Junaman thread - Empiricism vs. Rationalism - Pt 2 « Fundamentalist Christianity — 8 October, 2006 #
Christian, explain thyself!
I saw this today, and it’s definitely worth a read and some consideration… It may torque some of you up, and perhaps that’s good. It would be better if it gave everyone some pause to think. Some of the points
Trackback by The Squid Zone — 11 October, 2006 #
re: faith and computers…
when you bought your computer, did you just have faith that the white box this guy sold would open a window onto the world, or did you see one running in a shop, have a demo of the internet, see some actual proof. when you turn on your PC, you don’t expect it to work because of faith, you expect it to work because you have seen the proof and evidence that it already works.
faith is a belief without proof or evidence.
Comment by Reg Spyder — 15 October, 2006 #
Reg – that’s a common misconception. Faith involves at least some degree of rationalism, however small.
You need to define “proof or evidence”.
Comment by albert — 15 October, 2006 #
To believe in God/s is an act of faith because the concept/being cannot be proven or disproven.
Faith leads to moral “truths”. These can be dangerous. Take Christianity and homosexuality. Or Islam and women. If people were more open to rational thought – rather than submitting to a very much dated, ignorant morality – then societies would no doubt be more tolerant.
Comment by porcelainmonkey — 15 October, 2006 #
porcelainmonkey:
Judging by your lack of contact info, you’re probably another troll. But here goes:
Your first point blatantly ignores my last comment – the one right above yours – in order to assert your own dangerous moral truth. So your argument that rational thought alone will result in toleration is baseless. Read the Rationalism vs. Empiricism thread – with special regards to the last question Junaman makes in part 2.
I can agree that moral truths can be dangerous in the sense that they might exclude one another, and therefore conflict. That is why I think it is necessary to take a passive stance when this conflict occurs – that which I believe Jesus thoroughly embodies.
This is one reason why “faith” in Christianity rests entirely on Jesus (can you see the rationale?).
Comment by albert — 16 October, 2006 #
One other thing, to further clarify:
This is true to the extent that it cannot be done through empirical (read: scientific) means.
Comment by albert — 16 October, 2006 #
Nature is God.
http://drhaisook.wordpress.com/2006/03/30/nature-is-god/
Comment by drhaisook — 16 October, 2006 #
At first I thought you were open to listening to serious, honest beliefs in a genuine debate. Then I read “magic happy land” and realized the error of my understanding.
So here. The answer to all of the above is–
Potato chips.
Comment by infringe — 16 October, 2006 #
@infringe…
I did not write these questions… yes, I am open to hearing what you have to say… Seeing as you answered like that, my assumption that religion is absurd (hence “magic happy land) has been affirmed…
Comment by junaman — 16 October, 2006 #
Good to see you’re actually still here Junaman… are you balking on replying to my last post again?
Comment by albert — 17 October, 2006 #
Actually my experience with this particular (rather vitriolic) questionairre is that it represents a trap. I actually answered these question once for an atheist who sent them to me. After I e-mailed her the answers, she proceeded to make fun of the fact that I even tried to answer them. And this is part of the problem. These questions, while answerable for the most part, are not designed to be answered. They are designed to intimidate the reader, and frighten the believer with their tone and “educated” appearance. In actuality, this a parade of straw men, apparently written by someone who learned about Christianity by reading their local newspapers.
And by the way: “preying” is something televangelists do. Praying is something Christians do.
Peace
Comment by Nixcell — 18 October, 2006 #
I have the answers you seek
Did you just call God a p*ssy?
9 Simple Rules for Religious People:
1) If you claim your God is all powerful, you can not ask for or try to help him in any way. He does not need it! He is all powerful.
2) If you claim your God is Everything, you can not also claim he is on your side as opposed to anyone else’s. He is on all sides! He is all sides.
3) If you claim your God created everything, you can not say he has needs. He created money! He does not need any!
4) If you caim your God is the only God, you can not make a gender specific description of him. He does not have genitalia! She does not reproduce her kind.
5) If you claim your God has a purpose for everything, you can not try to change anything. Who are you to interfere with the Will of God?
6) If you claim your God is Omniscient, you can not claim that prayer is anything more than annoying to him. Omniscience precludes ADD and short term memory loss. He does not need you to remind him of current events, gossip, or what you want for Christmas. He knows already!
7) If you claim your God is Great, you can not claim he has the worst of human traits such as jealousy, hatred, anger, or any other of the things more aptly attributed to ex-significant others whom the term Great is never used in regards to. Unless for sarcasm of course as in, “you mean that rabbit boiling freak I used to live with? Yeah, she was a Great Girlfriend!”
9) If you claim that you are Saved and that Heaven Awaits you, please by all means go now! Why wait? If you think God needs you to do anything here, please reread rules 1-8. Oh, and try not to take anyone with you. God will get around to them when He decides it is their time to go. You are only responsible for yourself, figuratively. Actually, God and his Grace have that one taken care of too, so… Whatever.
As for me, I claim nothing really. But if there is a God, it would seem that He has left us here, by ourselves for the most part, with only the means to get by without Him.
Comment by Reverend X — 18 October, 2006 #
You haven’t really questioned anything I said, but I’ll reply to some of your post.
And schizophrenics argue that they experience voices in their heads, or whatever else they may see during hallucinations. Modern science calls that a disease…
Where is the rationalism in believing in god? Is there any rational “proof” of god?
I think the notion of faith has several different contexts, and the definition can vary throughout. I think sometimes it’s used due to custom only… as in when it’s used instead of “trust”
I feel that the empirical evidence suggesting that a TV will work, leads you to believe it will work again… you have also been told by people that it will work (another way that it is possible, yet not always healthy to gain knowledge) and this contributes to you thinking it will work…
There is also scientific evidence of it working.
Whether you call it faith or not, it differs from faith in the religious sense.
Obviously it’s possible to gain knowledge through subjective empiricism – people have done it before…
Whether or not the knowledge is correct, and whether or not it is safe to accept subjective knowledge is another question…
Reagrdless, I believe that objective and rational knowledge is more credible
Comment by junaman — 18 October, 2006 #
Question 19 – Why should you be tortured for something you haven’t done – You shouldn’t!
The Greek/Russian Orthodox church rejects the idea that the guilt of original sin is passed down. A child is not guilty for the sin of a father. this can be found in Exodus.
3 and 5. The physical persecutions of Old Believers were undertaken by the Russian government, not the church, although individuals from the church may have participated. The harsh measures were unacceptable and anti-humantarian.
26. The Orthodox church uses the edition of the Bible as agreed to in 4 CE, because it helped put it together! The schism with Catholicism and protestantism occurred later.
Comment by Hal Smith — 18 October, 2006 #
Fun stuff, Junaman, fun stuff. I consider myself a quasi-Christian, in the mold of “Course of Miracles”, which is considered heretical by traditional Christianity. The entity that channeled the writing for Course of Miracles was clearly Bhudda-like, but feeling is that so was JC — it was human interpretation of JC that destroyed any meaning behind the religion.
I didn’t get the reference to Mark 7:25-29 and the racism thing. One thing I’ve never gotten from anything JC allegedly said was that he was a racist.
That said, I enjoyed your questionnaire. My only quibble (and maybe it isn’t a small one) is that the Old Testament is really no more advanced in liturgal writing than Gilgamesh, and Western civilization was pretty focused on the revenge factor during those days.
Oops. We still are.
The other thing is that the bible was pretty clearly written by scribes with their own agendas.
I didn’t read the entire thing (but I will someday I hope) but if you didn’t ask this question, you should have:
If Mary really did give birth to Jesus without doing the nasty with JC’s dad, then isn’t she a goddess?
Comment by thegoreyears — 18 October, 2006 #
I could never be a Christian because both my spiritual and literal ancestors were mercilessly and unnecessarily killed when the christ-god said “thou shant murder”. where does jesus get off saying his followers do not have to fast or follow kosher anymore, or sacrifice to the god who is called i am? and how come just because a woman has a vagina and womanly hormones, she is automatically subservient to man (even though galations 3:8 states oppositely that there is no jew/gentile, slave/master, man/woman in god?). and, of course, why is he called jesus of nazareth instead of jesus of bethelehem, because everyone either bore the name “x of/from some city” or “x son of y”. and studying israeli history shows there is no city called nazareth in that day or age.
my god desires sacrifice, but is best pleased with song, water, plants, or devotion. (i am a devotee of krishna.)
Comment by Daijinryuu — 18 October, 2006 #
You’re right. I haven’t questioned anything you’ve said because you’ve been the one asking the questions which have been the framework for the discussion.
… and modern atheists tend to call it the “opiate of the masses”. Key word there is “masses”: have you ever heard of a “mass hallucination”?
This point is especially relevant with the genesis of Christianity in the first century.
Yeah. Read the last sentence of my comment on Oct 8.
Define “scientific evidence” in terms of empiricism and rationalism.
Not really. Being grounded in “science” doesn’t necessarily guarantee 100% accuracy of results unless it’s a law. But even those have been broken at times.
Yep – people like Satre, Kant, Voltaire, Nietzsche, Hume, etc.
Which is where “faith” and morality come in.
Define “objective and rational knowledge”. I believe a rationale exists, but not “rational knowledge”. I believe objectivism exists, but not “objective knowledge”.
What is your rationale for the existence of the two? If you can’t explain it, give it to me in an example.
Comment by albert — 18 October, 2006 #
[...] Yeah. Read the last sentence of my comment on Oct 8. J: I think the notion of faith has several different contexts, and the definition can vary throughout. I think sometimes it’s used due to custom only… as in when it’s used instead of “trust” [...]
Pingback by Junaman thread - Empiricism vs. Rationalism part 3 « Fundamentalist Christianity — 18 October, 2006 #
Daijinryuu,
There’s obviously no excuse in the actions of supposed devotees of the past. I can only offer my apologies and say that I, myself, have learned, or have a greater understanding o the teachings of Jesus and illegitimate justifications used for preemptive war as a result of it. (Although, that’s far from the case for many American Christians today… in fact I used to be one of those in support of the Iraq drumbeating)
However, in the same vein, couldn’t you apply the same criticism to your own dogma? It’s not like war has been an exclusive product of Christianity alone – clearly, it has existed since the beginning of man. So in essence, the argument could be made that your ancestors killed your own ancestors, could it not?
Regarding your specific criticisms, you mention a few other points:
where does jesus get off saying his followers do not have to fast or follow kosher anymore, or sacrifice to the god who is called i am?
and how come just because a woman has a vagina and womanly hormones, she is automatically subservient to man (even though galations 3:8 states oppositely that there is no jew/gentile, slave/master, man/woman in god?).
and, of course, why is he called jesus of nazareth instead of jesus of bethelehem, because everyone either bore the name “x of/from some city” or “x son of y”. and studying israeli history shows there is no city called nazareth in that day or age.
Did you want a defense of these points, or was it your intention to argue for the supremacy of your religion’s morality/historical basis over Christianity (we know what Junaman would think about that)?
Comment by albert — 18 October, 2006 #
[...] Daijinryuu, I’ve brought the thread to my site in case you wanted to discuss further here (also due to readability errors and recent force of habit). I could never be a Christian because both my spiritual and literal ancestors were mercilessly and unnecessarily killed when the christ-god said “thou shant murder”. where does jesus get off saying his followers do not have to fast or follow kosher anymore, or sacrifice to the god who is called i am? and how come just because a woman has a vagina and womanly hormones, she is automatically subservient to man (even though galations 3:8 states oppositely that there is no jew/gentile, slave/master, man/woman in god?). and, of course, why is he called jesus of nazareth instead of jesus of bethelehem, because everyone either bore the name “x of/from some city” or “x son of y”. and studying israeli history shows there is no city called nazareth in that day or age. [...]
Pingback by Daijinryuu thread - on historical Christian violence « Fundamentalist Christianity — 18 October, 2006 #
Sorry for taking so long to reply…
First of all, not all religious people claim they have “seen” or “experienced” god, secondly the ones who have can all claim they saw different things, no one’s belief is truly identical to another’s, hence is it really a “mass hallucination”, or just different people hallucinating different things.
Others still, can pass it off as if they see god, and not random voices, to avoid being classed as a schizophrenic.
That is an “idea” of god based on rationalism, not proof that he exists…
Well, objective empiricism where something is witnessed through experimentation… and rationalism that can be explained by reason, without actually experiencing it work… Both of these are present in the case of a television.
I don’t see the need for this celebrity endorsement…?
Probably a poor choice of words on my part…
Not really sure what you mean?
Comment by junaman — 25 October, 2006 #
[A: edited. There was a section missing a response in the original which has since been changed. Delete/ignore the original response if you want].
It’s fine, I suppose. But the longer it takes, the more disingenuous your pursuit of “exposing incompetence”, as it were, will look (recent post(s) nonwithstanding).
This is true, but…
…this is a generalization, which leads you to inaccurately conclude…
Take a look at the genesis of first century Christianity (comment from another site | Acts and letter to Corinthians. Then the explosive growth).
Now if you want to debate on whether Christianity in Rome was the result of a conspiracy, that’s another thread…
“‘idea’ of god”: rationalism:: Evolution: theory (refer to my comment halfway down). See here why “theory” is the appropriate scientific relegation for evolution.
If that’s your definition of “objective empiricism”, it’s flawed. “Scientific evidence” in the scientific method is best defined as being the repeatedly verified hypotheses/theory through the experimentation of a number of qualified people. Secondly… there is no such thing as rational “scientific evidence” (I extrapolate on this closer to the bottom of the post). This is called, in scientific terms, a hypothesis.
It’s a counter to the [read: your] basic idea [read: what seems to be your understanding] that empiricism (vs. the “rationalism of science”) is inherently fallacious. It also serves to demonstrate your level of understanding since I first used the terms in the thread.
Bad wording on my part as well – to restate: what is your definition of “objective and rational knowledge”?
I said:
To explain: “rational” means, basically, “consistent with or based on or using reasoning” (reference). “Knowledge”, on the other hand, can be defined as
This means that the two are mutually exclusive. Hence, “rationale”.
Secondly, about the non-existence of objective knowledge, I argue this for the following reason: in order to truly qualify as being “objective” through the lens of science (which I presume you’re basing this on), you’d have to have known all factors (down to the spacial orientation of atoms and molecules, even superstring “RPM”) which definitely have contributed to such-and-such situation. Ignoring “concrete” physical hypotheticals such as dark matter, social scientists rely on making tentative explanations (see the scientific method: google | my layman’s definition of process) to explain social phenomena. Hardly conclusive, wouldn’t you think?
In short, true objectivism occurs when all macro and micro-causes to an effect are known. It cannot, nor ever will, occur – mark my words.
This is one reason why the Nobel Prize in science still exists.
Comment by albert — 26 October, 2006 #
You put a bit much weight on a tagline… How is this conversation exposing incompetence.
The real incompetence is not whether you believe in a god, but what you use that belief for, what objective you try to achieve with that belief.
And perhaps the Dawkins idea, that any ignorant belief of this kind safeguards extremism.
I’m sure that you agree that your beliefs differ from most other people of your faith (in my experience, at least), and there is no incompetence in a rational conversation…
I still think that no two beliefs are completely identical… they may be made to conform to a common one, and some are more easily swayed than others, but I think that the mind is capable of producing unique thought…
What do you intend to prove with bible quotes? You can see the inconsistencies in the bible in the same place where you started this discussion.
Mass hallucination?
As I said above, people can be manipulated… doesn’t mean they all saw the exact same thing in a hallucination…
What do you mean to say by this?
Yes, evolution is a theory, but is god a “proven hypothesis”?
Perhaps it is not inherently fallacious, but I feel that empiricism can, and has been, used as a tool to manipulate people. That is why knowledge obtained through it can be dangerous.
Fair enough
Obviously your knowledge and understanding of epistemology far outweighs my own…
Comment by junaman — 26 October, 2006 #
dude you are a fool.
Comment by Brent — 27 October, 2006 #
Brent that was uncalled for.
It’s called an ad hominem attack, and is the farthest thing from rationalism one can get.
Comment by albert — 27 October, 2006 #
That’s not just a tagline… it’s also the title of your blog.
Well, that one should be obvious. The incompetence comes in the form of dogmaticism regarding the “ultimate truth” of science, which is implied from your For Christians page.
I can agree if you’re referring to “amoralism”, e.g. in the case of Hitler and Bush. I don’t think proselytising necessarily bring you to the same conclusion.
Yes – this is just a a restatement of the dogmaticism idea – it should be categorically avoided. But at times it is not possible.
In the US, I’d say yeah. There is (fortunately and unfortunately) a greater tradition of evangelical fundamentalism dating back to the colonial period which arose as a counter-revolution to the Age of Enlightenment.
I put the quote back in to say that this was more a reference to first century Christianity than mysticism in general. The next quote was moved to provide context:
I would argue that “inconsistencies” in the verses, first of all, are the improper application of hermeneutics, if at all. Secondly,
…in the case of first century Christianity, the verses prove that it was indeed a “mass hallucination”: specifically, the belief was that, to the >500 people who ate, drank, spoke, and/or touched Jesus after his crucifixion, that he had in fact resurrected from the dead. The belief was in fact identical… similarly, “Jesus never existed” or “God is dead” is another belief which can be made identical.
Of course, if you’re talking about belief systems, that’s obviously another story. In the case of Christianity, I think uniformity is a good indication of dogmaticism/brainwashing. I think it can be deduced through the New Testament letters that such a condition didn’t exist.
Diversity (uniqueness) of good/godly practice, in true Christianity, comes as a result of a living God residing in you – the Holy Spirit. But diversity of beliefs come as a result of improper hermeneutical (rational) application.
The mind is capable of producing uniquely good thought (incarnated by practice) in the context of different belief systems, simply because no two real-world situations are alike. So the question becomes, can they produce consistently good, unique thought, loving and serving others, taking no credit for themselves; or, do they revel in serving others for their own ends (like politicians)? Clearly we’ve seen more the case of the latter (as opposed to the Judaic ontic assertion that humans have all sinned).
Evolution is a proven hypothesis, not a scientific law. God is also a proven hypothesis – but not using the scientific method. Instead a different rubric – rationalism – is used.
Yes, but you cast “manipulation” in a negative light far too often. It happens all the time in one situation which you probably don’t think of too often (or if you do, also in a negative light) – parentage.
Do you think the mother who raised her child as a baby now disciplines him to bring him/her to a state of despair or self-destruction? No! (Unless you’re speaking of familialism, which is another matter altogether). Instead the mother, more often than not, does this for the social benefit of her child, as if to paradoxically protect him. This is the result of parental love (often guided by empiricism).
So manipulation isn’t wrong by default. Parental discipline is the result of love, which is understood empirically. Manipulation where people act as if they are God is where the problem lies – which is why teachers have such a great responsibility.
You shouldn’t look at it that way. Most of the understanding of the nature of rationalism and empiricism can be done inductively. It’s a matter of willingness on your part to go through and empirically analyze some of your most deeply-held beliefs.
Believe it or not, you’ll find that some (or maybe a lot) of the things you believe are actually a reflection of faith in your teachers (a priori/a posteriori knowledge), and perhaps little of your own rationale.
Go through some of your stuff and see if you can identify what epistemic category your ideas fall under (you too, Christians). And lastly, see if you can form an exemplary model from them to live by.
I think you will find that Jesus overwhelmingly meets all the above criteria.
Comment by albert — 27 October, 2006 #
Sorry, meant to say that’s not just a tagline… it’s also the only category of your blog.
Comment by albert — 27 October, 2006 #
2.
Nobody is in hell yet. Wait for judgement day.
Comment by Me — 30 October, 2006 #
I, would, first, like to thank you for posting this. i am a devout christian (protestant) and i actually am glad that these are here. It provides everyone, faithful or otherwise, a chance to examine what they believe in. i plan on answering all of these questions to the best of my ability, so you can expect them possibly in the next month or so (they are seriousy deep questions, and i am a college student. You’ll understand my lack of time to ponder, research, etc.) but please be expecting my reply.
Thank you
Comment by Bryan — 31 October, 2006 #
I appreciate everyone’s enthusiasm on this posting, and the questionnaire is quite great, but I believe most of you have the wrong idea concerning what Christians represent. First of all, they are not all warmongering bigotous idiots like many of you seem so suppose. Some of them are, it is true, and there have been many atrocities done in the name of Christianity, but this represents a flaw in humanity, not necessarily in Christianity. There have been many intelligent, honest and thoughtful Christians throughout history who believed in the ideals of freedom, justice, egalitarianism, feminism, peace and prosperity for all people. It seems like some of you are unfairly generalizing. I know very well that there are many things in Christianity that don’t make sense, but the majority of Christians are dealing with these issues honestly, not trying to hide deficiencies in favor of dogmatic propaganda. Secondly, the issues raised by the questionnaire are hardly anything new and certaintly have not been ignored by Christians. In fact, these are the issues that Christians have been stuggling to make sense of for the last 2000+ years. Perhaps they will fail, or perhaps they already have, but I urge you to consider the implications of what you are arguing. Many of the greatest western thinkers, teachers, philosophers, writers, speakers, politicans and leaders have been Christians and maybe all of you think that this has been to our detriment. There have also been many great thinkers who denied God; Nietzsche is one of my favorites. Whatever your perspective is, know that you are up against two thousand years of committed thought and analysis on the subject of Christianity, Jesus and the Jewish God YHWH, and consider your invlovment carefully.
Also, I intend to provide answers to the questionnaire using a combination of orthodox Christian doctrine and what I believe; hopefully the answers will be helpful.
Anyway, sorry for the length, keep up the discussion, cheers.
Joseph
Comment by Joseph — 31 October, 2006 #
i’ll try to somewhat clear up a few of these, theres a lot lol.
an important thing to remember is that alot of the bible (IMO) is not to be taken literally. its about the lessons and morals within it. its not a fact book, or a history book. so try to keep an open mind, scrutiny leads to bigotry
20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.
its not about the water, its symbolic of you giving you life to christ, at least i dont believe it has anything to do with the water
1. Explain why your god’s only son had to die so we can go to magic happy land when we croak.
because thats how much he loves us
2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.
nope tho i dont know the exact verse, it says that God will let some people into heaven for being good people. and that nomatter how hard we would try to give the impression that we know whos going to heaven or hell, it also states taht NOBODY, knows who goes. you can have an idea, but never really know
4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.
5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not members of your particular sect.
i’m not ether of these, but that was along time ago when the church was more corrupt than it is, it happened and happens, because nobody is perfect and everyone is a sinner, but what counts is that we are now trying to achieve astate of holiness with God
8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that discrimination against women solely on the basis of sex is morally acceptable.
Let a woman learn in quietness with all subjection.
12 But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;
14 and Adam was not beguiled, but the woman being beguiled hath fallen into transgression:
15 but she shall be saved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctification with sobriety.
well it was woman who first betrayed God, so he pnished women, but gave them another chance through child bearing
so, its not really discrimination
Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered “bad” by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be “bad,” then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.
have you ever read the song of soloman (its an edited book of the bible) it’s a whole book dedicated to sex, and interestinlgy enough talks about is in such away that people learn how to do it better (ie. the fondling position, “one hand begind her head, one hand below it)
we worship jesus cuzz he was the son of god, and IS god
Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.
god loves everyone, he created man for woman and woman for man. though it is a disgrace to refute him any other way, he will give grace towards it. thats why people should not judge others about it
Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.
once again, i am only 16 and dont have the bible memorized, but i do know that it says in the bible that nobody knows whose going to heaven or hell, i whole heartedly belive you caould be an atheist and go to heaven under those principles
What is sin, exactly?
doing something God would not approve of
Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn’t this also constitute “entrapment?”
one of the greatest gifts he gives is free will. he also gives this gift called forgivness, if you repent, god will actually ourposeflully forget that you have even sinned, so through repentence we get no punishment
well thats all i have time for tonight, but i’ll be back
but ps. i’m really glad your thinking about this, which is more than most people can say. you show intelligence and ask questions. good ones too!
Comment by travis — 2 November, 2006 #
mmmm these question arent really hard, I could answer nearly all of them, some I’d have to study up, but really I dont think some people really want to know, some people are happy bashing faith and preffer to live in ignorance because if they found the truth, what then? They’d have to change as no they know there are consequences to here thinking and actions, but most people prefer to justify their actions by making up theories, if you reall want the truth I can show you how to get it, otherwise, keep bashing, it easier
Comment by Daryl — 2 November, 2006 #
Hmm… I like it… however, the interesting point to note here is not so much that it’s just a Christian “problem”, in that it’s a problem to have a religion that makes no sense whatsoever, but all religions. That would include, islam, christianism, bhuddism and any others… Sad but true.. This is why the state and the church (whichever that may be) should always be separate.
Comment by krazy — 2 November, 2006 #
There is absolutley no reason for ANY religion to be something made public. It has no place what so ever in Politics, Public areas, or Schools. If these single minded believers wish to follow these cults (and no there isnt any difference between these and other cults like the Solar Templars, or God’s Children)
I wouldn’t have any problem with religion if it was kept a private matter between the person and the belief but when I see these bastards going door to door offering Salvation in exchange for a weekley donation and the presence at their church for the rest of their lives is when i get very pissed off.
If people wanted to join your faith, religion, or spiritual beliefs they would do so on their own accord something you have to accept.
which is making me believe that they aren’t going on their own so you have to interfer by offering them promises you cannot in anyway, shape, or form guarantee.
As for having a place in politics WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO USE YOUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS TO MAKE JUDGEMENTS IN THE WAY OUR SOCIETY FUNCTIONS?!
debating on whether gay marriages are allowed or not disgusts me, Marriage is a bond between 2 people who love each other, the gender of the 2 people shouldn’t even be considered. Something that disgusts me even more is the fact that our Government actually has to decide on allowing these people the freedom to get married, ITS A RIGHT EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE! not allowing it Violates the basis of “Human Rights”
The bottom line, regardless of your religion, or spiritual belief, keep it a private matter. Forcing it on others who don’t come to you on your own should be against the fucking law. Stay out of politics, it has absolutley no place for you. Last, stop trying to take the freedoms of people away, your religion should not affect other peoples lives AT ALL! it sickens me how you try to create the perfect society according to your bible
~Pissed off Canadian
Comment by Priest Torcher — 3 November, 2006 #
I always like hearing both sides of the argument. I’m a Christian but like many I can’t follow the whole organized part due to most of the hypocrisy I’ve seen. I don’t need man to believe in God and I think anyone with a brain can draw a line between right and wrong. I’ll walk my own path in life and I’ll try my best and I’ll believe in God while doing it. I pity all the hate flowing through these comments on both sides, I don’t see this earth making it for much longer.
as for junaman
“Umm… why?
Because I just owned everything you believe in?-junaman”
+
“Taken from: http://www.geocities.com/athens/olympus/5599/hpq/ – I DID NOT WRITE THIS…”
You didn’t own anyone if anyone got “owned” it was because of that site. In any case, I don’t think anyone should have been “owned”. If a few questions can destroy your faith then I don’t think you believed in anything from the start. That comment bugged me, I think you just want to feel a sense of importance. To stir something up huh? Well you got your attention. Congrats.
Comment by WhoresWithHalos — 3 November, 2006 #
Wow, you all amuse me so much!! You are all on here debating nonsense. Don’t you realize the TRUTH? NO? Well, I’ll tell you the TRUTH!
Religion was started way before Christianity. It started when Human Beings had no idea how to explain anything so they devised ancient myths to describe why things are. Then as Human Beings progressed and became smarter and smarter, we needed guidelines and laws to make sure we stayed in line.
By the way, don’t forget that most prior Religions praised Warfare and all fighters who fought and died went to a special place above (I’ll use the common name now to make everyone understand) heaven. So then came the future.
So Current Religion was devised. The Bible is the same as Hammurabi’s Law. But a little nicer. Don’t do this, but you can do this. Wow, who the hell cares if any of it is real! People need to believe in something or they will go crazy and rob and kill everyone. So Religion fills that part as well.
I also have one other question to add to this little thing though. If babies are one of the only pure things that can go to heaven no matter how and when they die, because they are “innocent.” Then why don’t people just kill babies as soon as they are born and send us all to an eternal happiness? That one person would be sinning and sent to hell but hey I’m sure someone would love to take that job somewhere right?
I used to try to reason and debate this very topic, but then I learned the TRUTH. Who cares? Just live your live morally and you’ll go to wherever the good place is. I hope haha!!
Comment by The TRUTH — 3 November, 2006 #
This questionnaire, although certainly intended to destroy Christian ignorance, is a lesson in ignorance in itself. I would not waste the time of day to justify the quite obvious responses to such juvenile and uneducated atheistic belief system. Having discontent or problems with Chrstianity is fine, and disagreeing with it is likewise understood. But please, at least research these questions before you actually pose them. You are only would be ashamed of.
If the original author of this survey would like to go back and do the research, and then–only then– come back with questions, then fine. Educated Christians are not afraid to respond. But until you overcome the ignorance in this survey (to which both I, a Christian, and a friend, an athiest attest to), this is only an example of athiestic ignorance pitifully attacking an enemy of which he does not understand.
Bottom line: stop talking if you don’t know what you’re talking about. Better silence than stupidity.
Comment by Cameron — 3 November, 2006 #
According to Erich Von Daniken Jesus is burried in a place called Kashmir in India.He says that Jesus escaped from the crusifiction and fled to Kashmir and Mr.Danikan also says in his book that there is a reference of Jesus in the Hindu holy books of the Gita and the Vedas.For your information hinduism is the oldest religion in the world.
Comment by DB — 3 November, 2006 #
FOR YOUR INFORMATION DB,
PAGANISM is the oldest religion in the world.
Human Beings only rely on the history that other men tell them is true. One new discovery could change all that we Humans think that we know!!!!!
Comment by The TRUTH — 3 November, 2006 #
First off, I would like to point out that this article will do nothing more than inspire “Christians” (The quotations are deliberate) to beccome hostile to the author’s “ignorance” or “lack or research”
Might I point out that this article raises questions that cannot be answered by most bible believers.
I am however learned in bibles studies, I have many friends who call themselves christians, all of which have blind faith in the absurd. But I love them, they are my friends and family and I can be tolerant of their ignorance.
What this article did for me was re-enforce my belief that the true god would not have anything to do with such folly as the Bible or this article for that matter. It is only human nature to try to explain the existences (or lack thereof) of God. These questions cannot be answered for one simple reason, God did not write a book, men did.
Men who desired power, wealth and abouve all, complacent women.
There are more simple questions that can be asked without having to refer to the bible (and in such a case as this, be reffered to time and again as “Ignorant”
So, here are my questions for “Christian” peoples
If God takes us when he wants us, why wear a seatbelt? Or take antibiotics
Comment by Not Ignorant God Believing Man — 3 November, 2006 #
Some quick things to comment on. The whole history of Jesus has been skewed and twisted. if you research this period of time HISTORICALLY, you’ll learn that he and his followers were a group of Jews know as Qumranians. In their Jewish beliefs are where we get “the holy trinity”, though theirs were described as two “pillars”, a kingly (translation of the word “messiah”) and a priestly, who were Jesus (actually, Yahashua (sp.)) and his brother James, respectively, with an arch joining the two on top representing God. Also of note is that if you traslate Barrabas (the man chosen by the Jews to be released instead of Jesus), it means, literally, “Son of God”. Therefore, Jesus was the Kingly (Messiah) leader, though his brother, James, was the priestly. He was the one chosen over Jesus to live, as he was viewed as closer to god and, therefore, more important. I could go on and on, but if any Christian does some historical research, you’ll find that most all of Christianity comes as much from the Egyptians, Sumerians and others as from the Jews, and you’ll find just how inaccurate what we’ve been taught is. By the way, you know why we say “Amen” at the end of prayer? Amen-Ra was the Egytpian god/creator, and Moses brought his version of their beliefs back to Israel with him, and as this cult grew, it morphed into Judaism. Any questions, feel free to ask and I’ll gladly retort. Just do some research before you blindly defend “faith” people. The Bible teaches some good lessons, but it also has some HUGE holes in it, and is by no means meant to be taken literally and/or as historical FACT by rational people.
Comment by FACTS — 3 November, 2006 #
I believe in something bigger than myself.
The originating force?
Call it whatever comes to mind but God suits me fine for the argument.
I cannot share it with you because it is my own personal “God”.
You find your own.
Religion is manmade and as such subjective.
Organized Religion and any attempt to lead people to a particular deity will by definition create opponents.
Not everyone likes to be told what to do and believe.
We have inherited a set of right/wrong values that seem to work in society, therefore all we have to do is keep them and not do to others what we wouldn’t want them to do to us.
Simple as that.
Now please dont go about making a religion of my words…..
Comment by Odysseus — 3 November, 2006 #
I don’t beleive in god. If he does exist, he’ll understand where I’m coming from.
Comment by Gen — 3 November, 2006 #
As an American Indian who has had a different form of belief system handed down to me form my people, it gives me a slightly different view of Christianity. My grandmother thought Christianity was a sickness that ate your brain. I believe it is a software style brain virus that first infects its host, disconnects the host’s natural ability to think, feel, and reason properly. It even damages the natural instincts of reproduction and survival. The virus then after solid infection and collapse of the natural programming that we are born with starts trying to spread itself to other people, creating a more powerful network for faster infection of yet more people. Common sense is quickly replaced by faith. Faith is the ability to be selectively blind, deaf, and dumb as required to allow the virus to run without interruption even in the face of absolute double think absurdity. You can do just about anything to a Christian and they will allow it, but question their religion, make them think, and they will become violent. The virus must protect itself even if the host is not allowed personal defense.
Ok, so who made the Christ virus and why? It was designed and built over hundreds of years. Let me see, a social virus that lets you control people. You can make them so docile that you can slap them upside the head and they will turn so you can slap the other side. They will hand over all their belongings, money, land, homes, labor, little girls, little boys, and be happy for it, because they will be rewarded for it in the afterlife. You can if you want, whip them into a frenzy to kill and die for you like in the holly wars or the inquisition. I would say it’s a pretty handy virus to have if you need to control the population and its resources, just something to think about.
Reverend Ernest Black Feather
Comment by Ernest — 3 November, 2006 #
“lol shrinkly – “prey”? that’s pedophiles, not christians. >_>”
well in the uk the two generally equal the same thing, specifically with priests.
Comment by JC — 3 November, 2006 #
Don’t you have anything better to do you loser.
Comment by whocares — 3 November, 2006 #
I got the answer to all the questions, on why some of the gospels don’t make sense, why a lot of interpretations by different sects (including islam, which in my view should not be a seperate belief cuz if you read the gospels and the koran you see they clearly supposed to be on one and the same bookshelf)
The answer is: the bible (meaning the 4 gospels PEOPLE chose from over 30 original ones…. why ignore all the other material, especially some very significant texts like the gospel of judas) was written by MAN not god.
for the rest, excellent questions, any believer or non believer who is honest will have to start doubting some stuff.
but honestly, how can you believe in texts written by some pre-medieval people who for most of them the world was not bigger then the 50 mile radius around where they lived out there lives.
personally i believe in god. but i do not believe in MAN made church (in fact a text not accepted for obvious reasons by the church apparantly in jezus’ own hand says he doesn’t want a central powerhouse for religon, for obvious reasons: power corrupts (which the church is, a means to power nothing more or less)), MAN made rules never ever said to have come from god anyway (like celebacy… god would have made us like single celled organisms if he didn’t want us to have sex and love. without sex no mankind simple as that) and especially not a (very nice though) series of texts written by MAN… from before the dark ages even… com’on it’s 2006 not 200AD.
as for the person who said “ok, first of fuck you why don’t you actually post the quotes in stead of the numbers? i hope you go to hell and get raped by a big black gay man” first off, by your own beliefs your now going to hell… have fun… second.. how can you claim to be religious in any right when you can’t be bothered to look it up in your supreme book…. written by pre medieval sheppards in cavessomewhere in the middle east……. a lot like the guys we’re hunting for terror come to think of it..
on a side note, the bible and the gospels not included in it are excellent literature btw..
PS maybe i missed it in your list… did you know that mary being a virgin was only thought up in the 17th century.. only 3oo years ago.. all the time before that they happily screwed around… even in the bible ^^
Comment by Kael — 3 November, 2006 #
Hmm there is no way in hell I have the time to reply to 150 questions…but find the ones that bother you most and ill asnwer them. pretty much the biggest problem most modern day people have with god is the problem of good vs evil…which is pretty much squashed in the book of JOB….anyway i just wanna make it clear that i am not part of any sect and i believe catholics have warped the scripture to fuel there own evil need.
Comment by LedPoison — 3 November, 2006 #
I just have one question … Who do you think you are that I, as a Christian, have to “explain” myself to you?? I’m sorry, but the only person I am accountable to is Jesus Christ himself.
Comment by Booger — 3 November, 2006 #
Wow…I tell ya what-I believe in the things I see or have seen, but I also believe in the “concept” of heaven, God, and other worldly phenomenon. I have never been to Paris, France-but I know it exsists…I of course, want proof of God before I believe in Him, but isin’t that why we call it “faith”? I am NOT a christian, nor do I “pray to God” for miracles or other such non-sense. But what I DO believe in is PEOPLE being good to OTHERS.
It is poor quality of a man or woman to do harm to themselves or others…or break laws that mean to keep us safe-like wearing a seat belt. I could care less if an adult chooses not to wear one, but it is a parental duty to maintain the safety of our children. Otherwise, why the hell have children if not to keep them safe?
I thoroughly enjoyed this post. I agree with alot of the questions you propse here about the “holes” we find in religion. Personally, I see religion as an excuse for the followers shortcomings. One can blame God for a mishap, or attribute a miracle to Him…either way, any given follower of God subtracts his or her contribution to life. Just assuming that God is in charge. Fuck that-we all have choices, and God has nothing to do with them.
As to whether or not the world was created by Him? Does it matter? Should we really question it or care? Creation or evolution? Well, scientifically, we have proof of evolution-look around you! As a medical professional, I can tell you that there’s proof of evolution just in the bacteria and viri I encounter on a day to day basis. There’s such a thing as MRSA-methicillin resistant Staph Aureas. It’s PROOF that this bacterium adapted to its surrounding, and now cannot be killed by certain types of anti-biotics.
Do you think that God made it so? HAHA! No, it’s a product of the environment. There are just too many examples I’m thinking of, but that one was the simplist and cannot be refuted. I nature, the strongest survive, so that the best genetic material is passed on to new generations…is that not a support of evolution?
I applaude your post-Kudos. Heh, now I almost wish that Heaven and Hell DO exsist so that when I tell someone to go to Hell, it acually means something.
Comment by Jessica — 3 November, 2006 #
On the paganism or hindu relgions as the oldest… wrong… the first religions probably date back much further in the past (millions of years. we are a very young species but around for several millions of years nonetheless) and are long since forgotten or grown and evolved into the religions we know now.. which also explains a lot of the similar stories in most religions.
Remind you that the physical capacities of our brain/intellect has been the same since the day homo sapien spawned. so the earliest beliefs… may it be as simple as moon=good or whatever (hunting on full moon makes it likely the first revered object in prehistoric history since you need night and controversially enough light to have the best hunt and enough to eat, ergo full moon was important enough to create a belief and a way to interact with it. for example prayer or sacrifices for a good hunt / full moon)
i’m not all to happy about my previous post though (drinking a nice port.)
But a lot of comments here strike me as uhm how to put this… missing point, quoting BS and who knows what else.. some start with words that make me quit reading the full comment anyway… (starting with fuck this or that for example, very religious and smart…. *sigh*)
I’m not saying i can do better or anything… for the people claiming the author hasn’t done research doesn’t know enough or other types of comments feel free to post copies of the actual “correct” texts he references. I’ve got my bible copy here new and old testament in a bundled edition, and am looking them up. so far I don’t see what he didn’t read or misreferenced.
anyway getting tired of this. people are getting “angry” because atheists bash jewish descendent beliefs or any for that matter… and in return those people start yelling back without first thinking either… kids in gradeschool like most mankind.
I’m not an atheist. I believe in god. I pray. but …. I don’t believe the books (written by man) or the church (made and ruled by man) any truly progressed religious person who thought about it would realize god is in your heart, not in a book written by men or rules thought up by them which has zip to do with any actual god(s). everything you need is already inside you. e.g. good and bad. god gave us a conscience, i don’t need a book for that. just to give one example..
off to bed.
PS forgot, revelations clearly is about a contemporary problem in john’s time period: Emperor Nero of the romans, not the end of the world or satan and/or the antichrist. nero was the beast. hebrew numeroly confirms that as 666 is code for the name nero. besides that nero acted like a beast so why not call him one.
Comment by Kael — 3 November, 2006 #
booger, christianity is the only sect of many jewish offspring to see jesus as anything more then a man lead by god or at most the son and representative of god on earth.
to me jezus=god equals to blasphemy. jesus himself said he was his son or in other texts a humble follower of god. jezus = god was thought up by the roman church.
ps. praise jezus. but don’t misstake him for god. since he also said he will have a space in the highest plane of heaven and so will judas for releasing his spirit. he wouldn’t need that if he was god himselfnd ruled over heaven and earth anyway.
On a seperate notion, one should never accept information even from THAT book at face value, always think. take in account the issues around when the gosepls were written, research what has been altered by the church to fit their need in history. the example someone mentioned about mary as a virgin mother being thought up in the 17th century is completely correct. if you could go back to the day of jezus and ask him if his mom is a virgin he’d prolly laugh at you since that notion spawned a whopping 16 hundred something years after he walked this earth.
bottom line is.. think for yourself.. god gave you a great mind…. use it. don’t just believe what people wrote. for all you know some stories just started out as a bedtime story attempt on a kid that couldn’t sleep. (not that im saying this was the case, just an example of how some things grow into things they were never meant to grow into)
But always think first and read lot’s, compare deduct make it a hobby, and be objective even if your feelings get hurt first.
another example would be the female oppressive koran.. the unedited version clearly proclaimed equality for both genders…. men didn’t want it that way and edited the text into a companion book to go alongside the koran… editing happens here too… just ask why are there 4 gospels in the bible of the over 30 originals? most of which got destroyed by the church after censorship left the 4 we all hold so dear…. because it didn’t suit the church leaders at that point in time.
what common people know is what men tell them, not god who is painfully silent.
kind regards,
A believer and theology student.
Comment by Theology student — 3 November, 2006 #
sheesh, i wish that i had the time to write out 149 questions like this…
I was skimming through them and pretty much every one i saw proved to me just how ignorant you are on the subject of religion.
For example number 31. Judas was not damned because he betrayed Jesus, he was damned because he commited suicide.
*147 If someone turns away from Jesus then they are no longer of the faith. I am a Catholic so i dont really believe in being “saved”.
*128 Im not surprised you have not noticed this, but waging war was only in the Old Testament. After Jesus came he founded Catholicism and his followers did not wage war.
*120 the Church is against sex !OUTSIDE! of marriage.
*108 Jesus is not Josephs child.
*117 past+present+future+North+South+East+West=7
7 is symbolic of everything in existance and 6 is symbolized as coming short of that. Satan is less then God so 666 is his number.
106* because Jesus was a man as well as the son of God. In the Garden before his death he said if it is possible let this cup pass from me, but not as i will it but as you do. you can find this in all 4 gospels.
*99 yes i have, although you obviously have not.
*83 the Bible was made 2000 years ago. Only a true ignoramus would believe that nothing has changed since 2000 years ago. If you want to know Catholic doctrine then read the Catechism
*66 you can either have a good life on earth or a good life after death. therefore evil people will always come out ahead.
*45 my religion does not require me to lie. unfortunately, some religious people are as ignorant as you seem to be, and so they spread lies about other faiths, making the rest of us look bad.
*3 during the middle ages the Church was extremely corrupt. It is shameful, but there are no 2 ways about it.
*4 see number 3
*5 see number 3
I dont have time to answer any more, but if you really cared about the answers you would go to a priest instead of just posting questions on the internet.
Comment by Anthony — 3 November, 2006 #
What the poster and many of the commenters do not realize is the very layered and incredibly complex field of Theology. Believe me, picking up a book which actually looks at many of these issues from an academic standpoint (and not an ignorant, partisan, or ridiculous standpoint, like this list here) would blow you out of the water. There is a reason that schools of theology are usually BEGUN at the UNIVERSITY GRADUATE LEVEL. In short, this stuff is far too complex for even your standard Bachelor out of university, and that includes myself.
However, the biggest problem within this list and all the ones like it is that it attacks the same virtues (or lack thereof) and behaviors that Jesus himself fought. I honestly believe that if Jesus read this website, he would probably agree with most of it. Humans are imperfect, and we use things of power to horde it ourselves. That is what much of the current day church has become, a magnet for power that can, and has been, exploited. Don’t get me wrong, there are many very good churches out there, but there is also a strong showing of deceit, manipulation, and lies.
Here’s my point tho: If you’re arguing the same argument as Jesus, then whats your problem? The ignorance in this list is ASTOUNDING!
1) Any or all reference to the Old Testament is absolutely useless and has no bearing. The old covenent, which was established in the Old Testament by Abraham, was destroyed when Jesus died on the cross, which explains why the curtain ripped in two (from the top down) the moment Jesus breathed his last breath. Jesus re-wrote the covenant at that point, allowing all to be saved through the ultimate act of love shown to mankind on the cross.
Jesus merely came to us to set an example: Sacrifice. Don’t make everything about YOU. Do things for others, even if it hurts. Thats what Jesus did for us.
I don’t expect many of you to understand the concept of the “covenant” or how it plays into religion, history, and our lives, so i’ll explain it as shortly and sweetly as possible. The old testament is the equivalent of the Jewish Bible, while the New Testament is the Christian Bible. Due to the fact that the Christian tradition includes the Jewish tradition, outside of the rules that Jesus changed, the Old testament is also studied by the Christian Faith, but it is not considered binding in the way that the “red text” is. (red text refers to the first-hand accounts of Jesus’ words. They are outlined in most bibles with red text.) Therefore, as a Christian, I do not mind refuting any piece of the Old testament, as it just doesn’t matter.
I could go on, and on, and on, and on, but I wont. I don’t expect a rebuttal, as posts like this never get one, but take it from someone who has taken and completed post-secondary religion, philosophy, and theological work; Your comprehension on the subject is not nearly close enough to warrant any sort of true discussion. Learn about what you hate so much, and then you’ll be able to form a strong argument against the existence of God and/or the truth behind Jesus Christ.
Comment by Hogey — 3 November, 2006 #
don’t forget, in medieval times the church was a lot ore then just a house of faith. the pope was basicly the sole ruler of a big part of europe. a lot of power in the church’s hand, they decided what the “petty” kingdoms in europe did or did not do.
too think nothing was cencored, edited or just ignored to keep this power is just plain daft.
@Anthony, 666 stands for nero not satan. this is widely accepted. too put it in perspective. at the time john wrote his revelations he was exiled by nero on a rock out on sea.
Nero branded jews and a lot of other followers inc. those who followed the teachings of christ with his mark (making the marked slaves effectively) (which makes a lot more sense then the microchip implant nonsense people think today… as if he could think that up, or even if he saw that in a vision realize it’s branding a mark). Nero also was a beast in how he behaved by all written accounts (he was downright insane by current standards and ripe to put in an asylum for the rest of his life) and made gross athrocities of various kinds. he was also the biggest danger and yes. beast to john and his contemporary people. I could write a book but the point is the marking etc everything in revelations can put into perspective with nero, which is also much more probable and feasable then any sci-fi ww3 type interpretation (with all that shit going on then.. why write about something 2000 years away.. it wasn’t of interest to contemporaries even if he had visions 2000 years into the future. maybe if the circumstance was different but nero back then was a real and present threat to all who believed and if he had succeeded it would have been an apocalypse for believers at the time, and we would not be discussing this belief system here at this moment.. it would have been eradicated by nero.. luckily he died…. call it an act of god if you will.)
as for the bible… the bible wasn’t written as a book.
the church collected all the gospels they knew of and chose 4 and bound those in a book. some stem from before jezus some several hundreds of years after. the bible isn’t as old as you want to believe. it’s not like the stone tablets and was written by men. from hearsay no less. years after the events described… sometimes over 200 years after the events the gospels talk about..
the best advice for the bible. even for the deepest religious person: take it with a grain of salt and common sense.
bible:
old stories.
hearsay.
1800 years of copying and editing.
translation errors (anyone know hebrew and latin.. or even better the extinct language jezus spoke himself: aramaic?)
political influence
and the list goes on… don’t take it at face value or too literal.
Comment by anonymous — 3 November, 2006 #
Here’s my responses to the first 10 questions:
1) Jesus didn’t have to die on the cross, but did so to sacrifice himself for our evil nature. Most will argue that this is some mystical, hoodoo deal that sends us to some alternate reality when we die, in either a good form (heaven) or a bad form (hell). This is bullshit. Heaven and Hell are not places per-say (as said by Jesus himself), but instead levels of relationship with others and with God. Jesus showed us the way to reach that level of relationship with God, and that is through selflessness, graciousness, and Love. However, to attain such values, one must sacrifice, and this is what the Cross was meant to achieve. Jesus dying on the cross was the most relevant way of showing us how to sacrifice, as what more can we give once we’ve given our lives?
2) Not necessarily. Jesus spoke of a holding place, called ‘Shaol’, which can also be coined as “Hell”. Shaol is a holding place of sorts, much like the catholic idea of purgatory. In Shaol, souls rest waiting for the second coming, but while in shaol, a soul is completely devoid of relationship or community. They are completely alone, waiting for their fate to be decided. The covenant established in the old testament with Abraham allowed the Jews a passage to heaven (relationship with God beyond our physical existance), so the gentiles were sent to Shaol upon death, to await their fate. When Jesus died, he allowed the gentiles a way into heaven directly, bypassing Shaol altogether. This is one theory. If this theory can be counted as true, then the answer to your question is:
No, not everyone went to hell, just the gentiles. The Jews already had access to heaven.
(keep in mind that heaven only refers to communion with God beyond our physical existance. Alternatively, Hell refers to the absence of communion with God, or, complete isolation for the rest of eternity)
3)People are imperfect, and have very little will in many cases. Get one going in one direction, and others will follow. That being said, the witch trials and events like it were more of a sociological issue than a religious one. It just so happened that the church was the equivalent of the state/courts at that time, so it was really the same as the US Justice system doing the same against middle eastern citizens today. Hence why we still use the loosely-coined term “witch hunt”.
4) Same as above. Religion is inherently a powerful thing, and can be exploited. It was, and such has been strongly documented in History.
5) Same as above (#5)
6) Your argument is flawed. You have taken a very left-wing viewpoint here and equated anger and wrath as “evil”. God is all-good, omniscient, and all-powerful. He is also fair and just. Therefore, in order to maintain his ‘goodness’, he must reward and punish those who act in good or bad ways. Being all-good does not mean being nice to everyone, no matter how hurtful or self-serving their actions are. It still allows for some anger should it come down to that.
A question like this comes down to the whole “WHY?!?!?!? (are we here?)” issue, and frankly, it cannot be answered. Some believe that God structured our existence like this in search of community, others believe it is just his nature. Due to the fact that I do not have God in my sock drawer, I do not know. God is all-good, but he is also just and fair.
7) I don’t get what you’re saying here… Mark 7:25-29 outlines Jesus’ healing of a Greek child after questioning the mother on the treatment of her child. When she replies in a manner that is acceptable, she finds her daughter free of the demon that inhabited her. Racist? how so?
9) Same as above. This is how society worked back then. “Why did the egyptians mummify their corpses when they could have cremated them?!?” Cause thats how they did it back then, as it matched the societal norm and religious thoughts of the day. If you’ve read the bible, you will see that Jesus would not allow slaves for himself, but students instead. Many times did he turn away those who wanted to serve him.
10) UGH! all the verses you have written there deal not with obeying your parents evil requests, but with the parents responsibility to discipline thier children and hold the responsible for their actions. Proverbs is merely a book written by David as a book of poems, and therefore shall be taken as heavily as Homer’s Illiad in this respect. The poetry of a king born 1000 years before Jesus has zero sway in refuting Christian beliefs. Its purely one man’s opinion, and are not considered divine words of wisdom. Same can be said of Deuteronomy and Hebrews, with Hebrews taking the most sway. However, in that passage, it only mentions that one should discipline their children, or they will not turn into strong individuals.
Theres the first 10. I could continue, but i’m out of time at the moment. THese questions can be answered, in due time. allow the flaming to begin.
Comment by Hogey — 3 November, 2006 #
good page. bible=ballocks
Comment by dave — 3 November, 2006 #
Biologists at the University of California, San Diego have uncovered the first genetic evidence that explains how large-scale alterations to body plans were accomplished during the early evolution of animals…. The achievement is a landmark in evolutionary biology, not only because it shows how new animal body plans could arise from a simple genetic mutation, but because it effectively answers a major criticism creationists had long leveled against evolution—the absence of a genetic mechanism that could permit animals to introduce radical new body designs.’
Comment by jedidiah — 3 November, 2006 #
This is really a silly series of questions. A bunch of these are just factually incorrect or based on misrepresentations.
For example,
QUOTE: If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy, is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the “divinely inspired” argument: Because I am not religious, I will not be able to accept it)
Answer: In fact the Protestants do not use the apocrypha, but the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics do use the apocrypha. Also there is a difference between divine inspiration and “infallibility”. The eastern orthodox believe the Pope is the patriarch of rome and is equal to the other Patriarchs (of Constantinople, Jerusalem, Alexandria, and Antioch).
These questions are not very well thought out, some are valid questions, but the majority are just plain dumb.
Comment by The Messenger — 3 November, 2006 #
arguing on the internet is like participating in the special olympics, you may win but you’re always a retard!
Comment by spolmpycs — 3 November, 2006 #
i dont understand. i thought the bible was the word of God. so even if there is one place where the bible contradicts itself, how can it still be considered the word of God who is all perfect? Furthermore, regarding the racism and sexism, just because it was considered societal norms to treat women and other races as inferior why isnt such behavior vehemently condemned in the bible? unless right or rong is determined by societal norms rather than a set values of placed by God, which in that case the bible was not the word of GOd but indeed the ideas of humans themselves.
Comment by henry — 3 November, 2006 #
About hogey;s comment about heaven or hell:Most will argue that this is some mystical, hoodoo deal that sends us to some alternate reality when we die, in either a good form (heaven) or a bad form (hell). This is bullshit. Heaven and Hell are not places per-say (as said by Jesus himself), but instead levels of relationship with others and with God.
u describe its as a “relationship”. where’s the evidence? or is this merely an interpretation or ure own and others in order to refute questions. If jesus himself stated that heaven or hell is a place then y leave it to interpretation?
Comment by henry — 3 November, 2006 #
Oooof I am capable of answering your little 150 questions, I really am but I am not in a position to spend the next 6 hours typing up exactly what I believe in every single one of your questions. So I will just generally address some of the most pertinent issues. Now for starters some of your questions do not have an answer. Like where did God come from he just exists… he was there at the beginning same thing as what existed before the big bang? Nothing existed at all. Certain questions about how the devil and God acts well besides that a human being cannot fathom how a supernatural being acts, or how someone was supposed to act 2000 years really are impossible for someone to answer. One can judge someone else’s actions through information but it is never a right thing to do. Now I do believe that 1000, 800, 700, and many years ago Christians did things that would be nowadays considered morally wrong, also today certain Christians do things that are morally wrong. Yet I am not going to apologize for them, nor is my faith shaken because 500 years ago some idiotic Americans unjustly burned women, or the spanish with their Inquisition murdered thousands of Jews and Arabs. I was not alive at that that time and that has nothing to do with me. If it makes you feel better even though you are not affected by it in anyway I apologize to you. Now let me be honest with you, I pity you, not because you lack faith, because I happen to believe that anyone who has lead a good life and is a good person will go to Heaven, independent or race or religion, but because you are an ignorant and prejudiced person, who feels high and mighty judging a group of people you know nothing about through the internet. You are acting as ignorant and prejudiced as those Christians that you so much hate or are unwilling to understand and listen. Anyone who is a close minded individual is a fool. I also believe that God is a third-person viewer he does not affect our life in any way, he gave us free will and all the things that happen in the world are a direct cause of the free will of someone else, hence why there is evil and good in the world at the end he simply judges what you did and sends you to heaven or hell. It is not unfair he does not hate you, he does what is considered justifiable, it is exactly what a judicial court would do to you, he punishes you according to your actions, no more no less. Well but back to your article, it was a very bad idea. Did you really expect ANYONE to sit down and answer does 150 questions, everytime I read one I knew the answer and I could write my train of thought and explain it to someone with no bible experience in person, may be one or two questions, but those 150… they are too long, and those that were already long answers you also add explain, add that to the fact you add nonsensical questions, like should Mary have aborted? Really, really childish of you, you only did this because you knew that no one would sit an answer and then you could go back to your life and say “gee all christians are stupid hypocritical non-believers not one of them wanted to answer my 150 questions which could easily fill up 1000 pages of a book”. You should take only 5 questions or 3, post them again and people will answer them.
A couple of tips: Read the bible, at least as a book of the greatest myth and collection of legends still in existence
If part of bibles seem the same keep in mind it is translated from a language that is more than 2000 years old, I am sure if you read the original you will find differences.
Do not ask stupid questions like where is hell or heaven… they are not actual real life places, they are other planes of existence to which we travel as souls once we die.
Keep an open minds, sometimes people will seem to have a better answer than you, more logical, and you will get mad and dismiss them as wrong, but then you are doing exactly what you judge Christians to do.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THING: Christianity like anything else is an idea, as an idea it is perfect, once you put int he human factor it automatically becomes corrupted and useless, there are good christians and bad christians like anything else in the world and you can’t judge all the christians by what jsut hte bad ones do, or did, 1000 years ago.
So grow up, take into account that everyone si entitle their opinion, and if I ever meet you I will happily sit down and talk, I HATE WRITING, and will promptly shut your mouth up, because I have read, understood, and analized the bible. Oh another thing, you can’t take the bible literally that is also a common mistake people do.
Comment by Jose Antonio De Obeso — 3 November, 2006 #
‘8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that discrimination against women solely on the basis of sex is morally acceptable.’
i looked up the 1 corinthians and this passage clearly depicts a sexist theme: ” a man ought not to cover his head since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.”
BOO-YAH
AS I STATED BEFORE. Hogey attempts to explain this sexism by blaming societal norms: back then such ideas were considered normal and correct. Howevor, even if PEOPLE believed such things were fine, does this mean God should also believe this? Moreover, why was this sexist theme supported rather than denied? Nowadays we have established that is is right and just to consider woman as equals of man. But God’s sense of what is just and right should not change just because the times have changed. So if the bible truly is the word of God then that means woman should still be considered inferior. The only explanation is perhaps the bible is not the teaching of God(i dont a perfect being such as He would consider is ok to be sexist), but rather by humans
Comment by henry — 3 November, 2006 #
cos the bible was written by man therefore all the sexism, racism, whatnots were left in.
If humans were created in the likeness of god then what about the animals? religion is like a drug for the masses keeps people in line its all about control anyway how do u think the vatican is so rich
Comment by sumone — 3 November, 2006 #
ok it was long established the bible was written by man, but this is nto the point since it is stated that God told them wut to write. So essentially one must think of it as God writing the bible. Basically this means, even if people believed that being sexist was ok, God should have SPECIFICALLY said something about sexism being bad whereas in the bible, He writes about stories and examples supporting sexism.
Comment by henry — 3 November, 2006 #
I like Jose’s view about anyone being able to go to heaven solely based on his actions. However, it’s unfair to a kid growing up in the ghetto to have the same chance as a kid growing up in a nice suburban neighborhood.
Comment by mao — 3 November, 2006 #
I’ll see what I can do about getting all these questions answered for you. It will take some time because my studies have me pinned right now. Physics makes me believe in a creator, this program we live in has an astounding order of operations. Here’s a paper I wrote in a philosophy class in 2003. It will give a little insight on why I believe in God. I follow logic, before I could really believe anything I had to determine whether or not I believed in “poof we’re here” or a specific design brought us about. Either way, I’ll mark this as a favorite and work on the questions posted.
Perhaps the most asked question amongst mankind is the question of origin. It is safe to say the question has skimmed every cognitive thinking persons mind at one time or another. Human beings have the concept of sentience, the ability to say I AM; its not necessarily a concept possessed only by mankind, but at this time no other species on Earth is known to posses this gift/curse. Throughout time many people have professed a creator while at the same time many have refuted this. Mankinds existence has been a constant search for truth. Its as if the first thought spawning other thoughts to seek completion in its own process is the question. The question is what inspires children to seek out all things and detect with there senses the measurements of all things available to them. The question is the story of mankind, the ultimate quest for why we are, the embedded configuration program that drives us all. The question has been the one existing inspiration behind all that man has accomplished. Journeys to far and unknown lands, the discovery of flight, mankinds walk on the moon; it always leads to the seeking of light, which is the Question.
It has been said that there is no proof that we exist due to a creator. What is proof? The Websters Dictionary provides this definition for Proof:
1 a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning
2 obsolete : EXPERIENCE
3 : something that induces certainty or establishes validity
4 archaic : the quality or state of having been tested or tried;
especially : unyielding hardness
5 : evidence operating to determine the finding or judgment of a tribunal
6 a plural proofs or proof : a copy (as of typeset text) made for examination or correction.
7 : a test applied to articles or substances to determine whether they are of standard or satisfactory quality.
From this definition I find proof to be a combination of tests or facts that give an argument a true or false answer. It has been said that science disproves a creator; I have not seen any evidence that shows a creator to be false. Without the knowledgebase of all that is and ever was it would be impossible to prove such a thing. The multitude of combined variables that established life here on Earth can not be perceived by any person. The calculations that would need to be plugged in to establish such a thing go beyond our most sophisticated computers ability. To give an example of the complexity involved in the process of creation of life one could consider the following, for every number range is an infinite amount of numerical ranges. An example of this can be seen in this description:
In between every number is an infinite amount of other numbers, between 1 and 2 exist infinity. For instance, between 1.00001 and 1.00002 is an infinite amount of numbers. As an example I will merely state 10 numbers in between 1.00001 and 1.00002, which are 1.000010 1.000011 1.000012 1.000013 1.000014 1.000015 1.000016 1.000017 1.000018 1.000019 1.000020
to look more specifically at this example we could view 1.000016 and 1.000017 (listed above); in between these numbers is an infinite amount of numbers:
1.00001600000000000000000000000001 and 1.00001700000000000000000000000001;
The number existing in between the following range would be 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (100 Septillion). Between any of those numbers (from the largest to the smallest) is an infinite amount of numbers; it goes on forever.
The odds for life to be created by chance could be signified by rolling an infinite dice (where life is an exact number) having it land on an exact number; if everything is infinite, even by getting to roll this imaginary dice infinitely would not create life. One must remember the number that represents life would constantly change as the ever moving Universe changed.
Out of many theories there is one that is widely known that Ill touch base on. This theory has proclaimed to resolve The Question while claiming to eliminate the need for a creator; the theory is called The theory of Evolution. The argument has been made that evolution shows that there is no need for a God (creator), while people that believe in a creator say that evolution isnt possible. I fail to see where the two beliefs produce a logical argument, aside from the fact that evolutionists deny a creator, and believers of a higher power deny evolution. The two disagreements lack logical argumentation though; evolutionists still lack a valid origin, and believers accept the fact that they can not comprehend the intricacies of their God, yet dismiss a possibility of their creators work. When a blacksmith makes a sword, the blacksmith does not merely will a sword to be created. The blacksmith actually puts time into the sword to forge it. The blacksmith tempers the sword with heat as the metal is folded numerously to get out all impurities. I dont consider myself able to comprehend the inner-workings of a God, so how would anyone else consider them selves capable without knowing everything?
The programming of such intricate creatures such as the life on earth is one that demands astonishment. DNA exists inside every living organism. When a four legged animal is born into the world, within merely seconds it walks without observed direction. When a maggot hatches it stays in the form of a maggot long enough to continue its birthing process, once it is ready to form it becomes a fly and is able to do just that without observed direction. The fly performs an unobserved operation by devouring potential toxins. The world in which we live operates as a machine; its a cycle that empowers looping functions. This machine provides plant life across the face of this globe as well as the hidden depths of its oceans. This plant life converts Carbon Dioxide into Oxygen. Plants produce seeds designed to spread there offspring; some plants have ways of delivering there seeds by using the wind as the conveyer, how do plants know to produce such things to carry there seeds through wind, what tells plants to grow this way? Some plant life has no way of conveying there own seeds far, but there are other creatures that carry the seeds for the plants. Some of these creatures are bees, birds, and other insects. Bees produce honeycomb and the honey therein both of which are edible and provide excellent nourishment for them selves as well as mammals amongst other creatures. The plant life on land (when it has completed its life cycle or fell short due to external influences) It fertilizes the land with its corpse and allows the soil to become a suitable environment for more plants to grow there. According to some people, there are creatures which have no significant purpose (e.g. ants, wasps). I believe all creatures have a role to play in this program, even if its not clearly observed by the human species (e.g. DNA, before it was known of). Since we (the human race) dont know all facts of the Universe, rules that we have established are subjected to possible change if new facts are found; since this has proven itself true time and time again. Some examples of human nature to come to a conclusion on a topic without knowing the facts could be seen in the possibility of flight being denied, speeds of 60 miles per hour or greater being merely a dream, computer viruses being refuted by Mr. Norton himself (Maker of Norton Anti-virus), the sound barrier being an unattainable speed, the ability of stopping light (Achieved January 18th 2001), never achieving teleportation (first success completed in June 19th of 2002 with photons). The list goes on, no matter what is accomplished people still say there are other concepts that can never be achieved.
Out of all the creatures on earth Homo-sapiens are the most complex. We are bipedal, which requires many muscles to constantly adjust when standing, for balance. We are noted by evolutional theory as the highest on the food chain, thus explaining why we are the most abundant creature (excluding miniscule organisms). We are the one creature out of all others that hurts this machine in which we live. Every other creature does no harm to the earth; if it starts too (e.g. becoming to abundant in population), it dies off. In cases of overpopulation with animals or insects, mankind is to blame; tearing down forests to make homes or businesses, hunting and killing the overpopulated creatures natural predator. The fact that all creatures have an algorithm to adapt to the environment shows us there is a program. How does a program come about? When a computer is used for any of the multiple functions it can be used for it is serving our purpose. The computer to operate requires a program; an operating system on a computer gives us a foundation to build other programs upon. There is one problem with our operating systems though; they generally crash at one time or another. The program that we exist in never crashes, it never has flaws; it is constant and perfect. If this program in which we exist is so perfect, how much more complex is it than the operating system on your computer? Would you believe it if someone told you that computers were not created, they just formed due to a big bang? Technically (in the eyes of evolutionists) the computer did form due to a big bang; the big bang could be looked at as a mover. Among the many movers man finally arrives, man makes computers; therefore the big bang caused computers to come about indirectly. My question is (if the big bang theory proves true) what caused the big bang? In this machine we live in, how did so many variables shine in our favor that we are were we are now? It is just like I mentioned above with the numeric example, the only problem is this lottery couldnt be won.
If a victim of a murder tells police the story of their mishap (Through forensics and other evidence at the crime scene) the police are the only persons that know what happened (besides the criminal him/her self), unless the police tell the press or information leaks out. Lets say years after the unsolved crime an inmate came fourth and told police he could help them solve a case if he was given a break on his time in jail, if the man was given this break and then told them he had killed the victim from that particular case. How would the police know the inmate wasnt lying just to get out of jail? The inmate would have to describe the crime scene that no one else knew about. If the inmate did this, they would call this proof that he was the murderer. It just so happens that there is a book that provides a type of proof. Among facts and examples mentioned above, there is another source of information which provides scientific information; its called the Bible. My beliefs allow me to consider prophecy as proof. There is such proof from a prophecy told in the bible of a time when the Jewish people would get there home back. The prophecy mathematically worked out to roughly 1 day short (which I am sure is because I am not considering the Hebrew day which begins and ends during one of our days.) The prophecy is this:
Consider the fact that Biblical years = 360, 12 months, and 24 hours
and that Calendar years ( our years) = 365.25 (.25 makes up for leap year)
According to Ezekiel (Ezekiel 4:3-6 ), because of her disobedience and failure to repent, God put Judea (Israel) in world-wide captivity for 430 biblical years, beginning in 606 BC with their exile to Babylon. God freed the exiles in Babylonian captivity 70 calendar years later–as predicted by Jeremiah (Jeremiah 25:11), in the spring of 536 BC. Because only a few exiles repented and returned from Babylon, God became angry and added more years to the time of world-wide captivity, using the formula in Leviticus, below:
“And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins”. Leviticus 26:18 . See also Leviticus 26:21-28. So multiply by seven the number of years remaining (430-70=360), thus adding 7 times 360, or 2520 years, to the time of captivity. Prophecy was made in units of biblical years, (remember: 12 months of 30 days, or 360-day years). Calendar year is 365.25 days, so 2520 biblical years is equivalent to 2483.78 calendar years. Subtracting 535.4 (not 536.4, since there is no 0 AD), we get 1948.3782340862 (, which is the 138.4336755492 day of the year, or, May 14th, 1948, which is very close to the month and year of the declaration of the statehood. (May 15, 1948).
(The Signature of God pg. 193 – 207: Grant R. Jeffrey)
I actually did the math myself (As provided above) and came out with the answer.
One way that science has shown the bible to be a concern for consideration is this:
Recently it was discovered that two factors in our blood are closely related to the bloods ability to be able to clot quickly and safely to facilitate healing and resistance to infection. Medical researchers found that two different blood clotting factors, Vitamin K and prothrombin, are at the highest levels of your life (110 percent of normal) on the eight day of life. In addition they discovered that the blood clotting factor, Vitamin K, is formed in the blood of a baby between day five and day seven of the babys life. Therefore, of all the days of the babys life he eighth day of life is optimum day for an operation because of the high levels of vitamin K and prothrombin, which will clot the blood and facilitate wound healing.
(Signature of God pg. 187: Grant R. Jeffrey)
The bible says that babies are to be circumcised on the 8th day of life (Genesis 17:12)
There are many more facts that can be found in the bible that have been indexed in this book: The signature of God.
If the information in a book isnt enough to bring realization to a person that there is a God, then they can easily look at their environment and see it; its simply a matter of looking deeper into the subject, going past the constraints put upon them from environmental factors.
Comment by Kensei — 3 November, 2006 #
I Agree with most except the reference to pagan christs (I Suppose you meant saints) whereas HERAKLES (or hercules-A new age mistranslation) has almost NOTHING in common with a saint-figure, he kills his children in a frenzy, accomplishes 12 tasks to repent for them, gets rid of his wife, marries another woman who ends up killing him with a robe soaked in the blood of a centaur. (explain that one please).
2nd point was Dionysus( u not i) who happened to be the GOD of wine. I mean, he has nothing similar to Christ, he’s a sex-crazed symbol who caused an entire town’s male population to have never-ending erections because they did not believe. He’s also connected with Satyrs, again, animal-men who rape and drink. And women who have been ‘turned’ crazy.
Your references throughout were FANTASTIC except you lost me with the Pagan reference which has no relevance and frankly, it doesn’t grant you extra-credibility to punch names out of no-where.
Comment by Derquasy — 3 November, 2006 #
Some of these arguments are valid and are left to mystery. The majority are just stupid. For example #91: However, a more accurate translation would be, “My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?” El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?…. this is so stupid I cant even believe it. I can translate ancient Hebrew to English and it does not say this. Furthermore Jesus is quoting a prophetic Psalm. Go read Psalm 22. Duhhh… I cant believe how stupid this crap is. Quit wasting your time.
Comment by Jonas — 3 November, 2006 #
Well, in the bible it was clearly stated in many passages that their would be many false prophets who seek to corrupt what is said. When reading the Bible one has to consider the context because language can be misleading due to language error. The bible is to be used in the form of a matricy by cross referencing passages that are talking of the same incident to shed the full light on the subject. People try to read the bible in a linear format from front to back (which is ok, but it can make it very confusing IMO).
Comment by Kensei — 3 November, 2006 #
Okay, i didn’t bother reading them all, when i got to number 26 or so couldn’t read another one.
A good portion of your questions can be answered if you actually read this book called “When Bad Things Happen To Good People,” i suggest you read it if you’re actually looking for an answer.
if you don’t really believe in god, then why are you (or whoever wrote this) trying so hard to thrash it?
Here is my idea about why people believe in a god, We know that evolution took place. A scientist might say it’s a natural process of beings trying to adapt to changing surroungings, a person of faith would believe that god made the evolutionry steps happen and we are just at the latest stage of evolution.
i got that fromt he book and might not explain much so read the book.
P.S. i’m not religious at all and have my doubts about God’s existance, but this post is just plain stupid.
Comment by Rizzo — 3 November, 2006 #
“if you don’t really believe in god, then why are you (or whoever wrote this) trying so hard to thrash it?”
Because I feel that in the present day religion, especially Christianity (I have explained before why it is relevant to target Christianity before any other group) hinders the progress of mankind.
“but this post is just plain stupid.”
Funny how so many people have said this without backing it up, and those that have tried have been quite unconvincing, how about answering the questions?
This post does not question religion as a whole, it questions aspects of the bible, which as you say yourself can be interpreted differently.
How then can you call the person who wrote this ignorant, while not explaining how you choose to interpret it…
“El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?…. this is so stupid I cant even believe it.”
Exactly, why would he?
Comment by junaman — 3 November, 2006 #
I think that kensei has written a very good bit of writing. He is basically contending that it is logical for a god to exist and that the bible provides proof of that god. Also loved the bit on evolution/creator as i have also contended that it is impossible to have 1 without the other whereas most people contend that they are mutually exclusive (always found that strange) With regards to the questionaire every point is valid!!! I will repeat this….EVERY POINT IS VALID. However the source of each and each problem within each point is not based on the reality or a situation aka “what is” but on HUMANS thoughts/perceptions/perversions on what is or what was. A quick example is that there are many different translations of the bible. certain words changing in sentences can completely change the meaning behind the words. There is no doubt in my mind that this has happened throughout the bible and i also believe it is quite possible that certain books have been left out by the people who voted which books should be included. Another form or perversion is by taking small paragraphs or parts of a message and focussing on these small parts without reference to the rest of the idea. To take a small part of writing out of context can completely change the message originally intended. People’s opinions and how they perceive a msg is basically the biggest reason i can think of for the questions in the questionaire. Many of the ideas in religion and the problems caused by these ideas seem to be humans trying to put words to things they don’t entirely understand. This can make things seem like a contradiction as the WORDS themselves contradict each other whereas the ideas behind them do not. Another example is where humans try to place words on the emotions of god. logically if there was a god that is all powerful why would he have the same emotions as humans. How can these be explained when humans can’t explain emotions themselves. Just ask anyone to tell you what love is. another examples are the ideas of heaven and hell. I believe that another problem to do with religion has to do with they way that religion was USED as a vehicle for individuals gain through greed and fear. For example churches used to charge people money to have their sins forgiven. This is an idea made entirely by men to make money, become rich and hold power. It had nothing to do with having their sins forgiven. I also think that it is a perversion where a sinner repents their sins to a man (priest) and asks forgivness, then the man judges the sinner and tells them what to do to be forgiven. Just another example of perversion. Sorry for the very poor writing quality and lack of sourcing, i am just trying to get ideas out there. Basically my main contention is that EVERYTHING wrong with religion is created by mankind one way or another. However this doesn’t make religion itself wrong. It merely means that you have to be very careful on what information you take in. When you think about it, and i mean really think, it is impossible for there not to be god. The universe is too perfectly imperfect for there not to be a plan to it all. For an example i shall assume the big bang theory happened. B4 the big bang there was energy. Floating in what?? for how long?? where did it come from?? why would a part of any of the energy be different from any other part?? what would cause an explosion so perfect that matter is created, and from this matter objects can be created, stars to give off heat and light, planets that orbit them perfectly (if planets were orbiting any slower they would be slowly sucked into a central point and be destroyed (aka earth into sun)) life to be created and then change from single cell organisms to multicell, right through the stages of evolution and end up with a range of beasts, diseases, virus’ that seem to contribute to each other perfectly without wiping out life completely. And at the top of the evolutionary cycle so far are humans. Humans are the only thing in known existance that have control over their life. Animals eat, sleep and multiply…we do all those things but at the same time we are in control of ourselves. We have choice. There is no reason whatsoever that evolution would require humans to be able to have choice. All the other animals survive without it. so why us?? what reason is there behind it?? what good is it?? why are we here?? These thoughts, unanswered, make the human race obsolete. With no reason for life it is human nature to destroy itself. Evolution would not create somthing like this as it means nature is not the survival of the fittest. it would only create something that is capable of these thoughts if there was an answer to them. I’m not saying i know the answer…just that there is an answer…and therefore there is a higher power at work as nature has no plan or self awareness. Sorry if this is really jumbled. Made sense in head but didn’t once i tried writing it down. I’m right in the middle of exam study so have massive brain overload and am forgetting normal words:P Cheers
Comment by Mez — 3 November, 2006 #
I think the amazing thing that you have done with this is pick out the verses to support your questions, and yet leave out the verses that proceed it.
When you read what you have listed and that only, it seems easy to believe what you want us to believe.
Such as..
79. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).
If you read from verses 1 to 12, you will see that it is talking about the Anti-Christ(I believe), and in 11-12 it is talking about those who have followed the Anti-Christ and not accepted God.
It is very easy to persuade people when only what you want them to know/read is given. And an excellent job of that was done with these questions.
Comment by somethin — 3 November, 2006 #
If you don’t believe in God,every answers that posted are USELESS, you will never understand and accept them. because you don’t have FAITH in GOD in the first place.Humans are always speaks, never listens, too much questions, and finally they make the humans confused about him/herselves.
Forget Jesus Christ, believe in God first, understand God, in time you will understand Jesus Christ. I admit, Jesus is a complicated matter.True we need faith to understand Him. So, faith is important, because without it, we are nothing, just empty shell. I want to write more, but I’m not very fluent in english, maybe I will write my comment again in Indonesian.
Comment by Dody Templar Indonesia — 3 November, 2006 #
a little random, but theory of evolution? fossils dating back several MILLIONS of years? the chances of earth being the only planet in our known universe with living organisms? and if there are other organisms in other parts of our universe, what would that make the bible?
old testament = very silly
people who cant open their minds to modern science = extremely silly
who watched the new episode of south park wednesday night as well?!
Comment by r0xstrom — 3 November, 2006 #
I am a Christian, non-denominational, I hate denominations and i’ll tell you what I believe.
It’s a simple concept called happiness. Do whatever you want, WHATEVER you want. The only exception is that you cannot force unhappiness on someone else. If you are gay and your parents are unhappy about that, it’s their fault and that’s ok. If you like killing people, find someone who wants to be killed. Whatever you want, as long as you do not force unhappiness on anyone else. It’s flawless.
On a side note, there is not one word, phrase, sentence, or moral in the Bible that says homosexuality is a sin. It’s not a commandment and those are ALL that matter.
And as far as the Bible goes, you “haters” cannot argue that if we all were to follow the 10 Commandments, that this would not be a nearly perfect world. They are a wonderful moral code, take God out of it if you want… I don’t care.
By the way, we Christians pray for people. Don’t take offense to it, don’t be an asshole when we tell you we will pray for you. It’s like the people that get pissed on when you wish them a Merry Christmas because they don’t celebrate it, it’s a holiday and I’m wishing you a merry time. Shut the f*ck up and enjoy the holiday. When I tell you I’m praying for you, I am concerned, I care, and I simply want you to know that I hope one day… you’ll change your mind.
Comment by DangerousFat — 3 November, 2006 #
Faith is truly believing without tangible proof.
Most of your questions can be answered by reading the bible (note, I said reading the bible, not asking christians).
Christians are just as flawed, evil, and corrupt as any other people on this earth. Lots of good ones, lots of indifferent ones, lots that give christianity a black eye or worse. It just so happens I’m not that great of one, but at least I know where I stand.
We’re no different than you. We’ve turned to faith at some level. You have apparently turned to anger. Any writer or educated reader can sense the anger seething through every word written. I’ll take my faith over your anger any day.
Comment by hoyer — 3 November, 2006 #
Live by faith not by sight.
I agree that 90% of these questions are good ones, and yeah most of them do raise good points and there are lots of crazy things but it’s all about faith and experiencing the love of Christ on a personal level.. unless you seek that nothing makes sense.. this coming from some one who didn’t understand anything until I did so myself.
also there’s a lot about why do Christians do this and that to other people.. well imo they arn’t true Christians if they can’t express selfless love in every way and form. Christ wasn’t sent into the world to condemn the world but so that the world would be saved through him. I agree there is a lot of corruption in the world when it comes to Christians forcing their own beliefs on others through things like fear and condemnation.. Jesus himself would be disgusted with these kinds of methods and quite frankly it pisses me off too, it’s almost insulting and it turns something that’s supposed to be completely about love into hate which is the greatest sin of them all!
It’s all about uncondtional love, relishing in your conviction and giving up everything for a relationship based on faith.. if you seek that you will experience things that can never be explained in an article.
Comment by Zak Farrington — 3 November, 2006 #
Junaman, there needs to be more smart poeple like you in the world.
But there needs to be more smart christians too. Perhaps if at least half of us christians knew our Bible, you would have some legitimate answers for those questions. And their ARE answers.
There are few of us who can actually support what we believe in. I think that the problem with many christians today is that they get too caught up in the emotion of a supernatual experience to actually sit down and study the Bible, its meaning, and its validity.
Comment by cornish — 3 November, 2006 #
Firstly, half these “laws” in the bible you claim support racism, slavery, and female opression are not actual laws. You are forgetting the most KEY element in any type of study…HISTORICAL CONTEXT!!!!!!!!! THAT’S the way things were back in the day, whether you think it’s OK or not. When Paul tells women that they cannot speak in church, or that a man must rule over her, he is speaking to a PARTICULAR group at a PARTICULAR place at a PARTICULAR time that has PARTICULAR problems. Talk to any person who studies history, or cultures, or anything. Everyone who reads the Bible understands this, or should.
Why did God’s only son have to die? Because people started to want to live their own ways, do what they want, because the life God demands from us is to hard for them. You hear the argument all the time that “Christianity is for weak people.” GIVE ME A BREAK! I can’t think a lustful thought about a woman that is not my wife, I can’t think and evil thought about other people, I have to constantly watch what I say, watch, hear, how I act. I have to monitor my thoughts and my heart and my actions 24/7. Why? Not because I think i’m better than you, but because God calls us to love eachother. Do YOU do that every day? Do YOU think about other poeple before yourself? Or do you just spend your days criticizing other faiths and picking out apparent inconsitencies and judging other people? Perhaps you are looking at God the wrong way. Your looking at God through the eyes of humans who do (yes even Christians) stupid and cruel things. Why? Because we are HUMAN!!!! The WHOLE POINT of the Bible is to say that WE CANT be nice to eachother, we CANT live civilized, we CANT be pure, we CANT not think of other women sexualy, we CANT be a good person. That’s why Jesus died, the punishment for sin (or doing any of those things and more I just listed) was death! Jesus came to die for us, as God’s only son, so that we didn’t have to….I am in shock at how poeple can bash Jesus, after the sacrifice he made. Sure people can be cruel, humans can kill, tear homes apart, cheat, lie, commit atrocities, rape, destroy…but that isn’t God!!! Sure the Bible “appears” to have laws in it that seem cruel and impossible and wrong, but you haven’t studied the text, the culture, and the entire biblical and cultural context properly. Go to a Seminary, ask a professor HOW to do that, then come and try this whole thing again…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
None of us no where we are going so we simplly try to anwser it but we cannot. So shut the hell up and sit down and just live and don’t worry.
Comment by Deathwish — 3 November, 2006 #
Yah and what’s with this “Don’t pray (sorry, prey) for me, I hate you!” stuff???
It’s an honor when someone, who is probably praying for a lot of people (out of the goodness of their heart and the passion they have for asking God to help watch over people) says they will pray for you.
If a Jewish guy came up to me and said, “Happy Chaunakkah (or however u spell it)” I wouldn’t tell him to go die somewhere, I would say thanks and probably say it back…out of respect to him as a person. (Now for you feminists out there, it could be a girl to!!!!)
Oh and the remark about why we address God as “father” and how that is sexist. I doubt God is a man, considering the Bible refers about God as both man and woman in different part, he is neither. He is a spirit, but God picked a word (Father) so that we could relate to him. He took a word that all humans understand and used it to relate to us…Jesus didn’t come as a guy to sanctify maleness, he came as a guy to relate to our humanity. He could have come as a woman, but he didn’t…….get over it.
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
Excelent site with a lot of these answers
Comment by trythis — 3 November, 2006 #
Oh and another thing about Jesus being male. The reason he probably was male was for the fact that women were seen as little more than a donkey, or a possesion, in those days. Being a male would have given Jesus the ability to become a Rabbi and hold ALOT of authority in his time. OR, maybe Jesus was just born with the right chromosome to make him male…..maybe??
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
wow very good article man, even thought u didnt write it lol, but good job posting it
also, if ur an atheist than i’d like to tell you a little about the Qur’aan if you like(not trying to get u to convert, i just wanna say some points), just email me at baboon-harbour@hotmail.com
thnx
Comment by Haroon — 3 November, 2006 #
As well, for the questions about Heaven and Hell……
How the HELL (no pun intended) are we supposed to know what Heaven and Hell are like? Do you see little travel booths booking tickets? That is the most rediculous question amoung the many up there, because no one can answer that!!!! WE DONT JUST GO TO HEAVEN OR HELL AND COME BACK!!! The bible does give some reference to Heaven, and it being filled with Elders and some cool creatures (read Revelations, if you hadn’t figured out what that book was about yet…it’s contains details about of what Heaven was like, and more!) And of course the Bible talks about Sheol, which refers to the grave (Psalms 18 is a good one)….but you can’t expect an answer to that…and if you can, then you’re full of some sort of something…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
You cannot put reason in faith.
In the Inquisition time there was no “human rights” as we have now. You cannot judge those times with present day values.
And, the Roman Church made a mistake when they apologize for Inquisition and Galileo. In fact, in Faith terms, I DO believe that the Earth is the center of the Universe.
So, the FAITH is irrational. Don’t mix these things so you can look smart.
I salute you!
Comment by Armageddon — 3 November, 2006 #
Adam and Eve and the tree? Why put it there? Because God ALWAYS gives US the choice. God is a gentleman, he NEVER forces himself on anyone. (“Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.” REVELATIONS 3:20)
So God gave Adam and Eve the choice, because God loves and respects us that much. He made us in his image, so he has to give us the choice. Like we have the choice to be an atheist, or be a follower of Christ.
I’m not claiming to have all the answers, but I’m sure you can see the simplicity in these common sense answers. Or maybe you can’t…either way is your choice.
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
The original Hebrew name of Jesus was “Yoshua” (sounds like Yeshuah). Then it was probably turned to Jesus (sounds like hezus) then Jesus as we know it.
Look up the hebrew words of the name, that’s where you find it.
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
Ok, where in the Bible does God threaten us with Hell?
It’s a simple concept. If the creator of the Universe, who loves and cares about You, asks you to do something…and you don’t, then you disobey him…which is bad. Since God is pure good, without evil, and without anything bad, you obviously cannot be where God is….so where else can you go? It’s not a threat, its the logical location where you would end up. Hell is the place where everything NOT God goes….you don’t want to go to hell, then maybe you should try to open an ear to God…He’s not forcing Himself on you, so don’t whine about Him forcing Himself on you if you’re not doing what He says anyways…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
50. Explain how your god can be “just and merciful” in light of Exodus 20:5.
Read my quote about Jesus and why He had to die for us for that answer…
God is just because those who directly disobey Him get punished (they had many chances) and merciful because those who sin but still turn to Him will be saved….
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
98. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn’t Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.
I like the idea of an apple, there are 3 parts to an apple…the core, the flesh, and the skin. Or water, there are 3 forms of water: steam, liquid, or ice.
Why do the parts of an apple need 3 names if it is one thing? Why the same with water?
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
Rob, I applaud you.
Glad there’s at least one smart christian out there
Comment by cornish — 3 November, 2006 #
91. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” This has traditionally been translated as, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” However, a more accurate translation would be, “My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?” El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?
El means God…look up the greek translation of the word man!!! Do your homework!!!
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
You guys learn to fucking read. HE DID NOT WRITE THIS!
Comment by Mcgeb — 3 November, 2006 #
99. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert me to a religion that you don’t know that much about? Isn’t knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn’t understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?
Have YOU read the entire Bible??? Have you really looked into the context, and the greek and hebrew and aramic root words? Then don’t you DARE lecture me about it, because half of these questions are filled with mistakes…
Like the question:
39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).
WHAT BIBLE IS THIS GUY READING!!!!!!
These quotes have NOTHING to do with ANYTHING he is saying. Sure the quote about Jesus where he says we must hate our brothers sisters, father, before we can enter kingdom is comfusing, but it has NOTHING to do with the question the guy asked!!! (And by the way, Jesus was making a point…Jesus obviously wants us to, look at Matthew 5:43, 19:19, 22:39, Mark 12:31….but I bet you missed those, didn’t you?)
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
Settle down Mcgeb, we know!!! We say “You” as in the author of the survey…or at least I do…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
106. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).
I’m pretty sure you just answered your own question with that Bible verse…Jesus says “Pass this cup from me, but YOUR will be done.” (paraphrase)
Man, this survey is funny…in a sense that it is a joke…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
76. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.
CONTEXT BUDDY CONTEXT!!!!!!
Thats the way things were in that day!!!!!
AND that’s what God at the time demanded of them because Jesus hadn’t come. When Jesus came, he took away the need to sacrifice animals because He took the place of every animal…Jesus worth was sooo great it coveres all of humanity, every person ever born EVER. Why was his worth so great? He was the only Son of God…that’s pretty valuable…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
87. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn’t it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.
You completely miss the WHOLE idea of Jesus dying. It wasn’t like Jesus woke up one morning and said, “Hey, I think I’ll die a painful death today…just for the fun of it.”
He did it for a reason!
WHy? Look at my responses above…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
105. According to Luke, Mary knew that she was pregnant with the Messiah. Living in the times she lived in, she must have known the scripture; therefore, she must have known that he would have to suffer horribly during his life. Was it moral for Mary to carry her baby to term, or would it have been more humane for her to have an abortion? Explain.
Actually, if you did proper Exegesis and Hermaneutical study, and you actually READ the Bible properly before saying these questions, you would realize that the Jews never beleived the Messiah would suffer and die. They thought he would come in on a white horse the save the day. That is why the disciples were so devistated after Jesus left, and why Thomas doubted soo much…why they were so confused when Jesus told them he was going to die…once again, READ the book…you might learn some stuff
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
130. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?
HAHAHAHAHAHA
……..oh its a serious question?
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
131. What was it about humanity’s torturing and killing of your god’s only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him.
He’s YOUR God too, whether you beleive in Him or not…and it wasn’t that God was made happy, but His wrath was. Remember the verse you so boldly claimed Jesus made to some pegan God “My God, why have you forsaken me?” God was soo disgusted with the sin that was on Jesus that he had to look away, and Jesus knew this…being God himself.
No, it wasn;t God that was satisfied…but His wrath. He demands blood for every sin. Every time you blaspheme YOUR and MY God, you sin, and Jesus took a whip to the back because of it…so that you don’t have to….be a little more respectful, k?
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
149. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects says that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?
OH MAN! ONCE AGAIN you manage to make a FOOL out of yourself with your lack of proper EXEGESIS!!!! The “faith” that Paul and James are talking about are not the same!
I’m not going to to tell you why, actually DO the research YOURSELF!
Christianity isn’t a load of crap. It didn’t hoodwink billions of people dude…only Satan can do that…
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
What a biased peice of nonsense written just to stir up some controversy. I am not remotely religious, and even though you have some good points, by phrasing them in such condescending and arrogant ways isn’t going to get you anywhere.
“Refute these passages in 100 words or less”….fucking moron.
Comment by NH — 3 November, 2006 #
And before I go to bed….
Just wanna say sorry for looking my cool. I sound a bit sarcastic at some points…and I do apologize for that. It’s not very Christian of me to be sarcastic…but i don’t regret what I said.
You CANNOT expect people to convice people that you’re so right when you base questions of misconceptions and lies….you are doing the very thing you are trying to “prevent” Christians from doing.
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
love reading stuff like this raises ?’s which i like seeing people debate against or for i am neither christian or a atheiest nor anyother religion i am my own person who lives life as i see fit i do belive in god and gods i do belive in enlightenment and i am open to all religions but the points that J has raised are valid and i deserve respect.
Comment by ELaytrix — 3 November, 2006 #
First of all, I’m not a Christian, and second, I agree with you that there are many imperfections in the Christian religion, but humanity is plagued with contradictions and irregularities. Anyway, even if there are contradictions in Christianity, everyone has a right to believe in what they they want to believe, you can’t make them think otherwise. They have no obligations to justify themselves or their faith to others.
Well, blatantly, you’re attacking the Christian religion and “exposing its incompetence” as it were. Stop hating u hater.
Comment by GI — 3 November, 2006 #
I appreciate and agree with your non-belief. I was at one time a born again (born and raised). However, you have actually fallen victim to giving events credence that never really happened one example: the exodus. There is not a single piece of evidence it ever occured at all. And not for lack of looking. The logistics of the event itself preclude it’s possibility, at least as related in the bible. An excellent work by Joseph Whelles/Wheless(?) called “Is it gods word” totally blows that and many other myths of the bible to shreds. The book has stood the test of time since 1925 and it’s companion “Forgery in christianity” are must reads for refuting the bible no nothings. Both can be downloaded on the net for free. They are lenghty and very well documented with references. Is it gods word uses only the bible to disprove the bible. Something I haven’t seen anyone else do. Another is “The christ conspiracy”, that book made my mind reel. The FACT that there were 15 crucified saviors for the sins of mankind identical to the jesus myth, before jesus prevents my belief. Why would a god use a pagan idea to bring his truth I dont know. Couldnt he use something unique, something simple and easy to understand so that even the simple could understand it, without the need of an entire priest craft to “interpret” it for us, puleez. I have read the bible cover to cover 7-8 times and I get sickened with it’s ignorance. Only knowledge, not faith will save us. Till man becomes educated he will cling to obsurdities. As Robert Ingersol said “give me one pair of helping hands over 1000 pairs of praying lips”. Mankind will not have attained to it’s height till the last stone from the last church,synagogue,mosque etc.. falls on the last priest, pastor, rabbi, imam etc.. One piece of advice: I understand your pissed and you should be, but this forum will get you nowhere and you will not change a single religionists mind. Believe me, I tried. I ended up losing my marriage over this as my wife is still a cult victim/member as is my son. Hell, my dad is a cult leader, I mean pastor. All you end up doing is alienating people. Go live a happy life in spite of them all. You cant save someone from themselves. One last suggestion for all: Spurn bribes of heaven and threats of hell, Do good for good is good to do. Spinoza.
Comment by DJ — 3 November, 2006 #
Anybody who believes in a god is a complete moron, full stop.
Comment by The King — 3 November, 2006 #
heh
just asked my religious girlfriend these questions… she is not too happy with me now…
hahaha
classic
Comment by Ralphy — 3 November, 2006 #
Awesome…. just awesome.
Quote of the day btw :
Me(not me.. a poster named Me): “ok, first of fuck you why don’t you actually post the quotes in stead of the numbers? i hope you go to hell and get raped by a big black gay man”
Junaman: “Oh, and being big, black and gay will most certainly warrant him a place in hell won’t it…..
FUCK YOU ”
*CLAP* *CLAP* *CLAP* Amazing how ignorant/hypocritical religious people can be eh?
Great comeback Junaman. Great
Comment by Casey — 3 November, 2006 #
Oh nice, like all you non-religious people are perfect and without your stupid assumptions and comments. Get over yourselves.
Comment by DangerousFat — 3 November, 2006 #
Does god has any mercy, if so, why he has to toture his son to forgive us
Comment by adam — 3 November, 2006 #
Nice ROb. Really.
Comment by somethin — 3 November, 2006 #
Come on guys – some of these questions are easy to answer – and further up someone said that it is proven that people are born gay – don’t choose to be gay – what rubbish.
My sister is a psychologist – studied many years – and one of the things she studied was gay people – and she told me that people are defnitle not born gay – but choose to be gay.
Some people are born more feminine – but not gay – and society just labels them gay – and so they choose to be gay.
And my extra 2 cents – a gay guy came to our church – he said he couldn’t get close to the lord – pastor said its cause you gay – let me pray for you – he said why not – worth a try – 3 years later – and now hes married and expecting his first child with his beautiful wife.
Comment by me — 3 November, 2006 #
106. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).
I’m pretty sure you just answered your own question with that Bible verse…Jesus says “Pass this cup from me, but YOUR will be done.” (paraphrase)
Man, this survey is funny…in a sense that it is a joke… *****
I just realized I read the question wrong, and never really answered it. Jesus DIDN’t do everything He could to get out of it. This quote this guy uses quotes Jesus saying “Take this cup away…” By Jesus saying this, it was more of His humanity coming out, he was afraid….Im pretty sure you DO realize that Jesus WAS human (even though fully God) and that you being attacked, stabbed, stuck up on a cross is not a fun thing to do…so SURE He prayed to His Father out of fear, but he ALWAYS said “but Your will be done.” You need to read the WHOLE Gospel…instead of randomly picking out quotes that suit your agenda…sure alot of these quotes make no sense if you don’t read them in the proper CONTEXT (again! what a word!).
And its funny how the guy who posted this whole argument only read the OT…who’s really the ignorant one?
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
****7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.****
I know I already addressed this, but I wanted to point out another flaw. This verse, has NOTHING to do with Jesus being racism…AT ALL. Actually go and read it!!!!!! Wow, I cannot beleive someone actually put this up here…..this is rediculous!!!
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
I do not have a problem with people who do not beleive in God. GO for it, you are allowed your own beliefs, and you are allowed your own views….but don’t dare to start spitting out twisted words, and half baked arguments, and start coming down on God because you choose to turn your back on Him…You don’t believe in Him, FINE, but I do….
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
Does god has any mercy, if so, why he has to toture his son to forgive us
Comment by adam****
Nice question adam,I addressed it above, take a look at some of the above quotes I posted.
Comment by ROb — 3 November, 2006 #
what a brilliant post and debate
juna mans questions are all perfectly logical
and if you take away the phycholigical factors involed in being religious you start to ask these questions.
I would estimate at least 85% of christians to be born into a the conscience of that religion often growing up listening to short stories and quotes from the bible, being tought the creation story,heaven and hell and all the media influences that come along with living in a modern predominantly christian media driven society
if god is real then why would he leave all the power of his words to us in a book that can be manipulated and interpreted in different ways,
surely there would be some devine supernatural connection with god from birth
how does a young musld child no he is praying to the wrong god ?
he doesnt he simply follows the rules of his culture and tries his best to live by the karan there is no choice involved there
by the time he is able to think for himself these beliefs become installed deep in his mind ,
just look at the structure of the bible theres a muti faceted answer to every question – god works in mysterious ways ?
Comment by kanye — 3 November, 2006 #
****A Post by DJ – “An excellent work by Joseph Whelles/Wheless(?) called “Is it gods word” totally blows that and many other myths of the bible to shreds. The book has stood the test of time since 1925 and it’s companion “Forgery in christianity” are must reads for refuting the bible no nothings”****
OK, firstly, this guy obviously is a no name whose arguments have no real standing, if he did there would be more of an impact and I would have heared on him….obviously not.
Second, you quote that this book has stood the test of time for 80 years….hmmmm, im pretty sure the oldest manuscripts from Matthew were found in 50-70 A.D., and the bible was established around 300 A.D….so who I trust, a book from a no name guru thats 80 years old that i have NEVER heared of, or a book that HAS REALLY stood the test of time….I’d be an idiot to trust your book “DJ”
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
just a simple opinion on a lot of this debate, i think a lot of people are confusing divine law and dogmatic laws (if you don’t know what i mean with this: divine laws are actual rules who supposedly came from god himself.. best example i can think of are the tablets with sins and virtues. dogmatic law are laws thought up by man, not god but quite often made out to have come from the divine but never did. personally, i follow god’s decrees but dogmatic (read church) laws, nope and i don’t think god will mind that i didn’t stick to the rules of a bunch of old geezers trying to stay in power)
Comment by David — 4 November, 2006 #
Someone mentioned god told us what to write in the bible. where did you ever get this from.
first of all noone wrote the bible, it’s a compilation of 4 texts… and a bad one at that since they discarded over 30 other “holy” gospels because it didn’t fit with the church’s idea’s.
2nd if the bible were a text written to us it would not have been written as stories or actually accounts/journalism.
3rd one book, which is said to be god’s actual words and thus written in that way (like he’s talking to you) is the koran, which in my opinion is from the same god (whatever you want to name him) and should sit next the bible in your bookshelf.
Comment by Holy? book — 4 November, 2006 #
Let me guess, you believed the Davinci Code and Holy Blood, Holy Grail? Didn’t you?
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
“god is dead”, “the sign of a true catholic”
Comment by Dogma — 4 November, 2006 #
The sign of a true catholic? I think you lost us…
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
“Let me guess, you believed the Davinci Code and Holy Blood, Holy Grail? Didn’t you?” if this was meant for me…. nope never read the davinci code or the other book, actually i enjoyed the documentary which easily throws all that BS in the junk pile… both those books were never intended to suggest a reality. they are novels, thrillers…. sci fi.. and completely based in fiction without a shred of proof for any of the idea’s…. i do actually like to think of the holy grail as the female womb though since the womb means life and offspring but that has nothing to do with the fictional novels you mentioned.
good thrillers though from what i heard
if you believe the davinci code you might as well also believe the enterprise finding god on a lanet at the center of the galaxy in one of the movies..
(ps davinci was a heretic who did not believe in god but took nature as his god and teacher so he would never be involved with something like that)
Comment by Holy? book — 4 November, 2006 #
This might be redundant, seeing so many religious and non-religios people have posted, but i’ll give my two cents anyway. It seems obvious that the bible itself isn’t exactly in the state it was intended. It has been changed and re-written so many times that little or none of the original material is in. It has been changed to serve the purpose of spreading the religion, so that everyone followed the same moral ethics, and in order for the church to gain influence. Not for any noble cause, it seems, but just to gain wealth and power for the clergy. Don’t believe in the bible, and certainly don’t take it literally! Christianity is something else. It is a belief in a god. It seems to me the only “sure” thing about god, is that he is infallible, or in other words: Perfect. But since all people have a different opinion on what “perfect” is, how can he live up to everyone’s expectations? (Or half of us or so, depending on how many are truly evil and don’t go to heaven.) I think it is absurd to believe in a being that hasn’t shown himself (or herself, you decide), done anything, talked to us or in other ways made us aware of his existence other than the words of some people who claim to have “found” him, or some book, rewritten x times to fit the purpose of men, not god. Whether there is some sort of divine being is hard to say. Though I highly doubt it, one thing is for sure. Don’t waste your time on it. Use your common sense, and treat others as you’d like to be treated. That way, we all win. If there is a god, i’ll believe in him in purgatory or wherever he shows himself to me. If there isn’t, well.. so what, the world can still be awsomely beautiful without a god.
Comment by StefRuleroftheUniverse — 4 November, 2006 #
forgot, if you mean the bible being a compilation of 4 out of 30+ gospels. this is a well known fact which the church no longer even denies.
Comment by Holy? book — 4 November, 2006 #
Then you must know the idea of the church throwing out 30 gospels because they didn’t fit with their “ideas” is a load of BS. That is what the Da Vinci Code states, which is why I was wondering if you beleived it or not. Actually, there was never a refuting of Gospels, only ones called the Gnostic Gospels which were fakes…do some research it’s actually very intersting…
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
it’s just a quote out of a comedy movie called dogma Rob. im not being serious. should whatc it though.. at least if you can have a laugh about religion without being instantly offended (self humor is healthy…)
Comment by Dogma — 4 November, 2006 #
The “gospels’ you claim they threw out were written 60 years after the accepted gospels such as Matthew, Mark, and the rest if the 24 books in the NT. The gospels we have were all written within lifetime of the actual apostles…thats why we kep them, because the perosn who wrote it either knew the poeple who knew Jesus, or knew the Apostles…the Gnostics were written too far afterwards to be trustworthy…all this superstition seeped in….and THATS a common known fact
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
This is not for you buddy, it’s for people who do believe that
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
I think i do a lot of research thank you… I study theology in Milan. Maybe you should also keep track of actual statements by the vatican on this…………………………………………………..
Comment by Holy? Book — 4 November, 2006 #
And I study theology in Toronto…your point?
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
You should know about the Gnostic Gospels then right??
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
My point basicly is: what does the church, the book and all that have to do with our actual god?
I don’t trust men. especially men who don’t want to lose their hold over the people. the church had a lot to lose back then. personally but not quite sure on this: what do you think the 4 gospels they picked were before they were branded real and the others were branded as gnostic bs… and who was that guy to make that decision which is real and which is bs and for whatever reason? (john… come on…… the other 3 ok but revelations, revelations was simply about current events in the period it was written.. being under threat by a maniac called nero and subsequently the beast)
I think people take it too literally, forget the time and circumstances when the texts were written and thus lost perspective on what they are actually about… not all of the gospels but some in any case. what lot’s of people believe revelations to be superimposed on our modern day is to me just about as believable as starwars or the lord of the rings. just the fact that 666 equates to the name nero should ring a bell for everyone believing it’s about a coming world war.
btw if my writing lacks here and there.. i couldn’t sleep last night and am practically falling asleep on my keyboard :p
Comment by Holy? Book — 4 November, 2006 #
My point was simply that im not shouting stuff without any foundations
Comment by Holy? Book — 4 November, 2006 #
Actually the church only affirmed these gospels because they were already in use, they didn’t pick them out of a pile…the Gnostic Gospels they through out because they were not trustworthy….WHY? Because they were written too many years after the gospels we know, (those gospels, again, were written in lifetime span of the apostles, and people who SAW these events) and gnostic thinking and tradition seeped into these Gnostic gospels….thats why they were denied, not because a bunch of old fat men thought they didn’t line up to their view of Jesus…they were’nt historically authentic.
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
PIck up a book called “New Testament Scriptures” by John Drane
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
just read the sister psychologist studying gay’s .
I don’t want to bash you or your sister but just wondered.. when did your sister study this? the research into this using catscans of the brain is very very very recent.. 2006 or 2005.
and yes there is a difference on images taken from born gays and heterosexual people… and no the researchers were not gay trying to find an excuse…
how it works, if it’s what makes them gay is not certain yet. what’s known is images from homosexuals are different in a certain part of the brain then images taken from heterosexuals.
Some images from homosexuals did not have this difference which is suggested to mean you have born gays and people who choose it for some reason (trauma, upbringing etc.)
this doesn’t necesarily prove anything. but it’s an interesting discovery.
personally im religious and straight and have no problem at all with gay people. don’t think god has either.
off to have dinner and much needed sleep now.
lovely discussion but they should delete comments like F*ck …… or “that’s not true. *dot* no explanation on why or anything.. would love to see this continu on a proper message board with a fair moderator just to del the empty messages
Comment by Holy? Book — 4 November, 2006 #
god you’re keeping me here Rob
i don’t truly believe the gospels were written so soon after the facts they describe. one reason would be the huge percentage of illiteracy in those days..
this is completely unsure i honestly admit and i’d have to look it up when i’m at my place. but dating done suggest some of the real gospels were written some 200 years after the fact. but like i said i’m like 1% sure on this.. it’s something i remember reading but very vaguely. i’ll try and see where i got that info from.
really going now, hope we can talk a bit more on theology Rob, here or elsewhere.
take care everyone
Comment by Holy? Book — 4 November, 2006 #
I actually have a DVD that talks about this particular fact, and it refers to a manuscript that was found of Matthew around 60 A.D.
I do have the DVD with me, it’s at my home home, not here at my apartment…I’ll let you know…
Thanks to you too dude, I enjoy this!
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
http://www.amightywind.com/hell/testimonies.htm
Comment by Genu — 4 November, 2006 #
No offence dude, but that is the sort of thing that make us Christians look like idiots. I know it’s all in good intent, and I appreciate it, but it’s kind of a stretch, don’t you agree? I don’t like pretending to know the answeres to questions of Heaven and Hell because there are none…none that we can attain. Sure, that may not be good enough for some people…they want “proof”, but that’s not our responsibility to give them…it’s Gods.
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
No offence dude, but that website is the sort of thing that make us Christians look like idiots. I know it’s all in good intent, and I appreciate it, but it’s kind of a stretch, don’t you agree? I don’t like pretending to know the answeres to questions of Heaven and Hell because there are none…none that we can attain. Sure, that may not be good enough for some people…they want “proof”, but that’s not our responsibility to give them…it’s Gods.
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
here’s one for you,
If god is perfect and is male (apparently)
he therefore has a penis……….one of the ugliest scrabs of skin known to the human race – how the hell is that perfect??????
Comment by notsosilentbob — 4 November, 2006 #
*****here’s one for you,
If god is perfect and is male (apparently)
he therefore has a penis……….one of the ugliest scrabs of skin known to the human race – how the hell is that perfect??????*****
Um nowhere in the Bible does it claim that God is a man, and that he has a penis. Have you READ the Bible??????
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
Junaman, your comments are open-ended, you paint with a broad brush. How could anyone answer you on any question, whether Christian or non-Christian? Your comments are typically inflammatory, colored with exaggeration and euphemism. So, increase your clarity of thought and writing, then maybe I can respond with a biblical answer. But remember your starting point and analysis and opinion is by no means objective. Instead, they connote superiority in accordance with your own judgments and perspectives.
Comment by Will — 4 November, 2006 #
*****114. Don’t you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?****
The whole point of Christianity is the realization that we are a wreck, and can do nothing without God (Hebrews 1:3).
Like the 12 Step Program for Addictions, the first step is to admit your utter helplessness and realize you have lost all control over your life. This is a sign of Humility, of repentance, and of helpesness…this is what God wants from us (Psalm 51:17, 2 Kings 22:19, Matthew 11:29). Is this unhealthy? No, is it unhealthy that a newborn child has to utterly rely on its mother for every single thing? No, its very healthy…its how the child survives. This is the sort of spirit God want’s from us…that we totally and utterly rely on Him for everything, because “Everything comes from God.” (1 Corinthians 11:12)
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
@henry:
“About hogey;s comment about heaven or hell:Most will argue that this is some mystical, hoodoo deal that sends us to some alternate reality when we die, in either a good form (heaven) or a bad form (hell). This is bullshit. Heaven and Hell are not places per-say (as said by Jesus himself), but instead levels of relationship with others and with God.
u describe its as a “relationship”. where’s the evidence? or is this merely an interpretation or ure own and others in order to refute questions. If jesus himself stated that heaven or hell is a place then y leave it to interpretation?”
I use the word relationship for lack of better word. Jesus himself taught about the aforementioned “Shaol”, or translated, “holding place”. In Jewish tradition (remember, Jesus was a Jew), Shaol was the place where the souls awaiting judgement were held, in complete isolation.
Now, the concept of Hell did not show up until the 8-9th Century AD, when the catholic church felt the need for scare tactics to fill the coffers, and it worked. To an extent, it is still working today. They took a few liberties in tying John’s revelation to this concept of hell; a giant pit of burning sulfur where everyone writhed in wretched pain for eternity. Does this check out with Jesus’ teachings? not so much.
Jesus teaches that there are two ways to approach the afterlife. You can follow him, learning to sacrifice and make the world better for those around you, whilst also strengthening your relationship with God, OR you can die.
What do I mean, “you can die”??? Well, you can die, devoid of any meaning or relationship. You will turn to dust, and your soul will be isolated forever. This is hell, and to be honest, it scares me far more than any pit of burning sulfur.
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
@rob
While i agree with what you’re saying about our reliance on God, I’m not sure if thats the spirit’s “want” of us. I think thats what pastors will tell us, that we’re completely reliant on God, and in many ways we are, but I don’t think its the type of thing people can hear and actually UNDERSTAND. I think the message of Christ, first and foremost, is to mirror his example. This includes trusting God, much like he had to, even in his times of terrible doubt (garden of gethsemane).
Here’s the big kicker tho, and I would say this to all who are reading this board: How is Christianity not completely intuitive? Treat people well, and you will be treated well in return. I would bet anybody a million dollars that if you lived your life according to Jesus’ teachings, you will notice a change not only in yourself, but in the way other people treat you. This is the crux of the entire thing. Human nature (usually) shows a great affinity for those who help and love, rather than hate and hurt. Some people got it backwards, but thats why there’s evil in this world. I just wish sometimes that people would open their eyes and realize that TRUE Christians are not hurting anybody, and should be respected for the way they treat others and live their lives.
Its too bad that nearly everyone feels that if you don’t believe what they believe, then you deserved to be belittled, persecuted, and spat upon. I know I love and respect anyone regardless of what they believe… unless you talk sh*t about my mom.
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
Quick change:
1) kinda went off track, and only the first third is actually directed at Rob
2) I don’t believe “nearly everyone” feels that way. I hereby re-word my statement with “some people”.
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
It’s true that alot of us are NOT reliant on God, as you said, that’s what Pastors want us to think. But, in my interpretation of the scriptures I listed, I beleive that’s what God wants from us…
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
*****90. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”; Luke 23:46: “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit”; John 19:30: “It is finished”).*****
If every single Gospel said the EXACT same words and the exact same details, wouldn’t you think it was fishy? The fact that there are discrepencies proves their autheticity. It is a common known fact that people hear different things from one source, its how humans are. In any scholars opinion, that is an sign that the Gospels are authentic.
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
119. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I’d do what he said.
Why would you do anything a God would tell since you don’t believe in a God?
Comment by Lyon — 4 November, 2006 #
Where is Heaven?
Right where he put it!
Comment by Lyon — 4 November, 2006 #
Lyon-
Why do we go out and disobey our parents when we were kids? WHy do we steal things, why do we lie, why do we cheat? No matter what, humans are stupid. I am, you are, the pope is, the president is, every single human being (besides Jesus) is stupid. It’s our human nature. I love God, and I wanna do what is right in my life for that reason, but I still think bad thoughts about people, I still get angry, I still let a swear word out every once a while, I used to be into sex, drugs, crime, all sorts of things…Just because God is talking to me and I believe in Him doesn’t automatically make me “stupid-proof”…Solomon, like David (who was known as A Man After God’s Own Heart, even though he had sex with a married woman) and you and me, is human…and made mistakes…that’s just the way the world works….i know what your saying though, if God was speaking audibly in his ear then how could he not pay attention?? Well i doubt God was…
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
that was in co-op to lyons…not directed at him
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
****108. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?****
Jesus had a pappa, it was God. Note “God the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit.”
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
@rob
I don’t disagree with you. I guess my point is that really understanding how or why one would or could relinquish all control to God would be extremely hard without experiencing a prior relationship or connection to him. I think its barriers like this that really cause people to be turned off by religion. Rather than simply showing others love and allowing them to culture an interest in the lifestyle, many Christians start spouting theological credos and ideas at people, when they aren’t ready for it.
An example: Say I know absolutely nothing about computers. I’ve seen them around, but i’ve never used one or had one myself. Now, lets say a Computer programmer acquaintance of mine (The Christian in this example) starts to talk to me about Visual Basic programming. Now, to most programmers, Visual Basic is the 3rd grade math of computer programming. But to a person who has never had any experience with computers, I would probably 1) tune completely out from what my friend is telling me, and 2) probably be adverse to talking about Visual Basic ever again, due to my complete lack of knowledge on it.
The thing about Theology and Christianity is that its COMPLEX. Again, most theology departments in major universities do not accept entries until they hit the graduate level. That being said, I’m not saying your wrong Rob, cause you’re not, but I think its less relative to people than many realize.
(wow, i don’t even know why i’m arguing about this…. damn message boards. i should go back to work
)
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
****3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of “heretics” throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until there were so few that the government could simply take their land; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the reforms of the seventeenth century.****
Why would I want to justify something I don’t beleive in? Just because I’m Protestant, or Catholic, doesn’t mean I agree with what people did who were of the same denomination before me. Are you white? Then justify slaverly! Are you male? Then justify female oppression! Are you german? Then justify Hitler!
See, doesn’t make sense if you really put some thought into it, does it?
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
Hogey -
Absolutely right. To alot of poeple, giving “control” to God is one of those religious jargon terms that means nothing. I think that we need to be sensetive, as you say, to those…I wasn’t sure what you meant, but now I do. I think ultimate surrender is our goal, but your right…it takes learning and understanding to get there…which can take a while
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
@rob’s response to question #3:
word. well said.
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
website regarding the Gospels and its historical accuracy:
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/arch-nt.html
After taking multiple theological courses at a secular university (meaning it wasn’t a bible college or anything, where one opinion may be favored), this was stressed for an entire semester. The Historical accuracy in terms of the Gospels is more precise than the evidence that Julius Caesar invaded Gaul during his time on the Roman throne, and not one historian refutes that. Apparently it has gotten to the point in the academic History community where if one was to refute the existence of Jesus Christ and the major details of his life, such a scholar would be laughed out of the room ***
*** according to a very respected Historian that taught me at the University of British Columbia
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
Rob, you’ve posted like 50 comments on here. Why? Do you think anyone on the internet gives a shit what you have to say? It’s getting you nowhere because people who believe you are going to comment back and say “word. well said.” and people who disagree are going to say “there is no God”
So why bother? Let’s just all go outside, or in some people’s case… actually do some work at work.
Comment by CB — 4 November, 2006 #
^^ sorry, above is in reference to Holy? Book and his arguments on the authenticity of the gospels
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
@CB:
Why do you read discussion boards when you don’t want to discuss anything?
Comment by Hogey — 4 November, 2006 #
Anybody who believes in a god is a complete moron, full stop.
Comment by The King
Having an intelligent conversation here, so it is limited to intelligent people.
Comment by Lyon — 4 November, 2006 #
The vast majority of your objections to Christianity are based on the teachings of false Christianity. I am a Jehovah’s Witness and can explain every one of those objections, because what I believe is entirely based on the Bible, not man-made traditions.
Comment by Steve West — 4 November, 2006 #
As a Pagan, I always get a giggle about all these arguments about Christianity. I personally don’t FOLLOW Jesus Christ or God, i believe they exist, just as i believe that Pan, Dionysis, Athena, Hecate, Isis, Osiris and the whole slew of other gods and goddesses from various pantheons. I have read the Bible, I went to a Catholic school, and I couldnt stand the patriarchal views and conformity and hypocrisy of the church, therefore i searched out an alternate path. I believe that divinity can be a powerful thing, its always nice to have something to believe in even when you dont exactly believe in yourself. But Christianity just doesnt do it for me, and i am sick and tired of people trying to get me to accept jesus as my saviour. When i say no thank you i have my own religion and i dont try to get you to believe what i believe, people usually reply that they are going to pray for my soul, and i usually politely reply, why thank you, i will be sure to light a candle on the full moon and ask that the goddess guide you through your confused times. People generally leave me alone after that when it comes to religion.
Comment by guesswho — 4 November, 2006 #
Steve West “I am a Jehovah’s Witness and can explain every one of those objections, because what I believe is entirely based on the Bible” The last time i had a Jehovah’s Witness came to my door, they tried to tell me that astrology is bad. I asked them why it is bad to use the stars, planets, moon and sun to our advantage if the Jehovah God created them. We use trees, water, and animals and plants that were put on this earth to our own advantage. The JW’s looked at each other and said they did not have an answer at the momnt and that they would get back to me when they did have an answer. well two months later, they come back to my door and tell m that the only reason it is bad to use astrology, is because it is the Devil tempting us to use it. Now that sounds like a crock of dog doo to me. I also cant understand that if your religion is so great, why do you have to come knocking on my door on a saturday morning while I am watching cartoons and recovering from a moonlit ritual the night before? that seems a little rude, and if it were such a wonderful religion you wouldnt have to make door to door sales pitches.
Comment by guesswho — 4 November, 2006 #
It’s a very good research and makes a lot of sense.
This note is only for the author of these questions. Every question needs a whole discussion to debate and answer. But amazingly you can get all your logical answers in the Quran (The Muslim’s Holy Book) and please before you start making ignorant comments I suggest that you read it first since obviously you can think. It’s enough for you to know that there is only one identical book all over the world since 1400 years ago. This is not my argument but if you really want to know the answers read chapter 3 as a start. It’s interesting that you can find the real stories which make sense about the bible and Jesus in the Quran. Hit me with your hardest questions and I’ll direct you to the verse that answers it.
AS A CHALLENGE FOR YOU. MAKE SOME QUESTIONS LIKE YOU MADE IN HERE ABOUT IT AND LET”S SEE WHAT YOU CAN COME UP WITH.
Comment by Alaaedin — 4 November, 2006 #
“The vast majority of your objections to Christianity are based on the teachings of false Christianity. I am a Jehovah’s Witness and can explain every one of those objections, because what I believe is entirely based on the Bible, not man-made traditions.”
Actually a vast majority of those questions are based on the bible.
“If every single Gospel said the EXACT same words and the exact same details, wouldn’t you think it was fishy?”
Double standards there, ROb. So everytime the gospels say something similar it’s fishy?
You see, that while you try to give me answers to most of these (actually you’re traversing quite a lot of them, seemingly trying to avoid the questions.
You see, as you say yourself the bible is up for interpretation, so instead of calling these questions stupid, perhaps think from a different viewpoint? I could call you just as ignorant for those answers as for the questions…
Really? Who the fuck is your sister?
Oh, thirteen independent psychological organisations tested you for many years, and found that you were retarded…
See, just as valid as your “proof”
Churches brainwashing gay people does not give you a good name by the name…
Comment by junaman — 4 November, 2006 #
LoL this is for all religions not only Christian… I bet Muslim, Hindu are the same… so stfu…
Comment by ayureah — 4 November, 2006 #
****Junaman’s quote – “If every single Gospel said the EXACT same words and the exact same details, wouldn’t you think it was fishy?”
Double standards there, ROb. So everytime the gospels say something similar it’s fishy?
You see, that while you try to give me answers to most of these (actually you’re traversing quite a lot of them, seemingly trying to avoid the questions.
You see, as you say yourself the bible is up for interpretation, so instead of calling these questions stupid, perhaps think from a different viewpoint? I could call you just as ignorant for those answers as for the questions…*****
So your saying as soon as I disagree with one of these questions you have found, I am being ignorant and not looking at things from a “different viewpoint”….what viewpoint would that be? The viewpoint of the enlightenment? Of YOUR viewpoint?
I would appreciate ONE example of a time I danced around an issue and didn’t answer it…please….I’ll wait for it
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
And by the way, what I said about it being fishy if the Gospels were word for word is actually a very valid argument. If they were exact copies of eachother than people would doubt they were written by different people…
Comment by ROb — 4 November, 2006 #
You disable pingbacks, J?
My response to your latest (on Oct 31) is here.
Comment by albert — 4 November, 2006 #
MY CHILDREN I WILL ARISE AGAIN AND KILL ALL THE NON-WHITTES, HOMOSEXUALS, AND DISABLED AND WE SHALL BE PURGED OF THE WICKED. AND THEN WE SHALL HAVE A SEXY PARTY TIME BOMB EXPLOSION…HIGH FIVE
Comment by JESUS — 4 November, 2006 #
you can still step this way there is always time to achieve nirvana
Comment by Buddha — 4 November, 2006 #
7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.
a: All humans descend from Noah and the other inhabitants of the Ark (the rest were drowned, remember?) therefore there is only one race so there can be no racism
Comment by thereisnodogbut — 4 November, 2006 #
ps
the people who don’t resemble noah’s family are obviously descendant from one of the pairs of animals on the ark and therefore are inferior
Comment by thereisnodogbut — 4 November, 2006 #
It is apparent that you (junaman) don’t spend much time in the Bible. It would be like me walking into a hospital and going to the OR and trying to tell a brain surgeon what I think he should do. When in truth, I have little to no knowledge or experience. I think I am an expert though because I’ve read a few pages of a very in depth book. Anyone who thinks he has it all figured out is a fool in my opinion. Because the wise people all say that the more they learn, the more they see that they have yet to learn.
Questions are good….but making missinformed and weak statements are not. Stick to talking about areas where you actually have some experience, because I could have come up with a better bullcrap argument than you did. If I were you I’d stick with the basic knowledge of the existence of good and evil and decide which came first. Because in the begining it was good, then came sin(disobeying God)and after that came death and curses.
Psalm 53
1 The fool says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, and their ways are vile;
there is no one who does good.
2 God looks down from heaven
on the sons of men
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 Everyone has turned away,
they have together become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.
4 Will the evildoers never learn—
those who devour my people as men eat bread
and who do not call on God?
5 There they were, overwhelmed with dread,
where there was nothing to dread.
God scattered the bones of those who attacked you; you put them to shame, for God despised them.
6 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion! When God restores the fortunes of his people, let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!
Comment by Justoneman — 5 November, 2006 #
The majority of the intelligible questions here are answered at carm.com
Comment by gun_will_travel — 5 November, 2006 #
The majority of the intelligible questions here are answered at carm.org
Comment by gun_will_travel — 5 November, 2006 #
Sorry for the domain goof!
Comment by gun_will_travel — 5 November, 2006 #
To ROb: Typical christian, pass judgement without hearing the evidence. If ignorance is bliss you are as blissful as they come. How many other things have you NOT heard of that are true/exist etc.. the answer: infinity. Get over yourself. And by the way, you’ve heard of him now. The majority of REAL theologians HAVE heard of this author and his books yet none of them have written a refutation disproving a single word of his brilliant works. It’s easier to ignore it. You usually dont find what you’re not looking for. Egoism is the christians mainstay. Nothing like dismissing a witness before he gives testimony because you fear what he has to say. Yeah that would fly in our leagal system. What a safe cozy place to be. Cult victims plug their ears, cover their eyes, and go lalalalalalala while click their heels together trying to stay in Kansas, you’re in your happy place dammit and you want to stay there, cool by me. Not because I dont care because I do. I love all lovable people of EVERY kind, thats my nature. Fortunately your diatribe falls on deaf ears as most people posting here seem intelligent enough to disregard your reply as a mere school yard rant without two brain cells acting in unison. Baaaaa Baaaaaaa, where’s your shepard with his crook, probably smoking a crack pipe with his willy in a little boy.
To every one else, the best way to bring religion crashing down is to demand from our government that they remove their tax exempt status and they would be gone inside a couple years. There are organizations (Freedom from religion foundation is one) working on this now and the IRS wants desperately to do this very thing. We all pay more in taxes so they can be free of societal responibility. Trillions of dollars in dead head property are owned by cult centers, paying $0 in taxes making us pick up the difference. No wonder so many scum bags have become cult leaders with so much to gain ie. Ted Haggard. One more “icon” fallen, I love it. Oh yeah, he didn’t inhale and threw it away, LOL. Remove the host and the parasite dies. Additionally, all stripes of priest craft should be made to prove their assertions or be prepared to stand trial for fraud, financial as well as moral, they are no different than Miss Cleo, charlatans all. I’ve made it easy for anyone (3 brain cell minimum) to actually read it before passing judgement, if you dare, by providing a link just in case you’re interested, if not prepare to be sheared, regularly. http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/is_it_gods_word/
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/forgery_in_christianity/
http://ffrf.org/
PS. Q. Why can’t christians show us a SINGLE historial artifact that proves jesus actually existed.
A. Because he didn’t. The new testament is NOT proof. It actually does more to disprove his existence. With 300,000 variant readings of the bible, which ONE is correct?
My door is open to a god and am awaiting my damascuc road conversion.
PSS. To Hogey: Many many respected historians do not accept jesus as a historical person as there are no writings in contemporary literature referring to him, which would seem impossible had he had such an impact, that isn’t a blatant forgery or interpolation ie. josephus,seneca, pliny etc.. All “pagan” references to jesus in these works have been shown to be BS added into existing works(interpolations) trying desperately to show he existed, it doesn’t work. Even the early church fathers recognized this and complained of there works being rewritten. Do your homework, I can’t do it for you. As one example, there are over 5000 copies of the book of Acts, no 2 are alike, therefore it presumes 4999 of them are innacurate. Innacurate in one, innacurate in all is my only conclusion. You can similar things about every book of the bible. If a “god” can’t keep his teachings unmolested, and we all know it has been corrupted for nearly 2 millenia, using the “god” given ability of reason being all I have, he could not blame me for disbeleiving any of it as I have no way of knowing what is and what isn’t.
Let me ask a simple question and see if any one can answer it.
My advent was miraculously foretold by prophets, I am the second of the holy trinity, I am the son of god, the earth rejoiced at my birth, I was of royal descent, I was born of a virgin on Dec. 25th, impregnated by the holy ghost, my father was a carpenter, I taught in the temple at 12, 3 wise men guided by a star and shepards attended my birth giving me gold, frankencence and myrrh, I had 12 disciples, I had a last supper with my disciples, betrayed by a disciple, was crucified between 2 thieves, pierced in the side, earthly darkness attended my death, died and arose on the third day, ascended to heaven in front of a multitude, was known as the good shepard and the redeemer, an angel warned my parents that the current ruler sought my death so my parents fled to a safe country, I had a forerunner anouncing my coming, I am the resurrection and the light of the world and lord of lords, I came to redeem man from his sins, I cured lepers and the blind, I cast out demons and raised the dead, I spent 40 days in the wilderness tempted by the devil, I came not to destroy the old religion but to fulfill it, I will have a day of judgement and a resurrection/rapture of the faithful.
I could continue ad nauseam with 300+ more like characteristics of this christ but will spare us all. Anyway, if you answered jesus, your wrong. My name is Christna and I was “born” 1500 years BCE. All this info is available in Kersey Graves book “The worlds 16 crucified saviors”. He was one the most eminent orientalists of his time and spent many years in India compiling a history of Christna and Mithra. Not as an anti-christian but as a scholar doing what he loved and commiting to writing what he found. Jesus is a johnny come lately as far as saviors go. 15 people (crucified saviors) rolled into one makes nobody. The Mithra myth is another crucified savior contemporary with jesus with the same storyline and again, began centuries before the jesus myth. Christianity is an amalgamation of judeism and pagan mystery religions to unite the people. Hence the Chatholic (which means universal) Church. It is the worlds first attempt at one world religion, wow that’s scary.
Comment by DJ — 5 November, 2006 #
Religion is man made. Took man a LONG time to get it, and most still don’t. God has been there from teh beginning. All rules were set in place long before jesus. Jesus was the delayed sign to make us aware of what is coming. All God wants is for you to be a good soul, humans write dumbass books that contradict this, and dumbass people follow other passionate people’s writings about things they can only guess about, in short you’re a moron if u worship the books and not God himself. Just be a good soul, and nothing else matters.
Comment by TaPE — 5 November, 2006 #
most of these questions are based on generalizing all of christians into one group and then holding them accountable to everything any christian has done in all of history. this is very naive.
im going to go out on a limb here and say that many of you do not support our president and do not support being in iraq, yet by your reasoning any american should be held directly responsible for justifying the war and explaining what is going on.
furthermore most of these questions are directly addressed in the bible. others are answered by examining the bible as a whole. I am working on answering these questions. I have the first 10 completed and am proceeding with the rest. please give me some time, these are not questions one should hasten through. i will post the response in a separate article.
Comment by Matt05 — 5 November, 2006 #
heres question 1 through 6. i’m tired now.
As to your thought-provoking question about unique beliefs, I am forced to sit and ponder upon the best way to construct a straightforward and believable response that could actually act as a means to draw you closer to my beliefs, but I feel very strongly due to complex universe we live in that there must be more to everything than what we see. I stumbled upon a post at http://saif_w.tripod.com/curious/Misc/created_or_chance.htm that I found interesting and felt like I could tie it in to my point. It’s a little lengthy, but to anyone with burning curiosities, one doesn’t really find a little time spent reading to be too very bothersome. I can’t say who wrote it because I didn’t really search too long for the author, but the website it is taken from was a Muslim-based site. Bare with me (or is it bear…homonyms will be the end of me…):
“Here we refer to the well known law of conservation of matter. This law states that ‘Matter cannot be created nor destroyed’.
What that means is that all that we are able to do is convert one form of substance to another. We can never create matter from nothing, and similarly we cannot turn matter into nothing. Trees are brought down to make wood and paper, sand is used in the making of glass………etc., but we can never create wood or glass out of vacuum.
Similarly we cannot completely destroy wood or glass, for even if we burn wood, we are only converting it to ashes and gases that are given off in the process.
We have also shown that all matter had a definite beginning or a moment in time when it came to exist, the moment when the universe was created. By joining these seemingly contradicting statements together:
1- Since the universe had a definite beginning, we can say that it was created.
2- Laws of physics states that matter cannot be created!
Therefore, it is only rational to say that the universe was created by a power that is above and independent of the laws of physics as we know them. That power is clearly not restricted or confined to the basic laws of physics but far superior.
Neither can this power be of a physical essence. It is also justifiable to expect this power not to have had a beginning because the concept of a beginning, and for that matter time in general, has been shown to be a dimension of the physical universe only. In his ‘Theory of relativity’, Einstein stated that time, space and matter were all created when the universe was born, and that before that moment time did not exist. It is not easy for the human mind to envisage the concept of no time, but if one accepts that time is only a dimension of the physical world the idea becomes more acceptable. Further still, and since the universe had a definite beginning before which nothing existed, then such an awesome event (the creation of the universe) cannot be attributed to chance, since before that initial moment of creation nothing existed, not even chance!
A superior non-physical power and creator is the only possible explanation to this argument.
a- The laws of probabilities
The laws of probability offer another interesting argument:
If we throw the dice, the chance of obtaining double 6 is (1 in 36). What this means is that on average if we throw the dice 1000 times, the chances are that we should get double 6 around 27 times. Now if we throw the dice 1000 times and we obtain double 6 every single throw then there is a design, a system or a controlling force behind the throws. We can hardly call it chance.
The science of Genetics offers vivid evidence that chance could not be a factor in the process of creation due to the very precise combinations necessary in the building of cells. These requisite combinations defy all laws of probabilities.
On a larger scale, We only need to look at the universe to be able to marvel at the endless examples of precision and beautiful design. Every field of scientific knowledge seems to testify to the existence of a master creator. It does not seem difficult to dismiss the possibility of chance.
b- The Mechanical argument
The mechanical argument is also in support of the concept of a creator.
‘For every action there is a reaction, equal to it and opposite in direction.’
Everything that has moved was moved by something else. If we go back in time, tracing everything to its original mover, we would ultimately arrive at that which was not moved by anything else. That analysis will also lead us to the unavoidable conclusion of an initial Creator.
c- The Development vs. Destruction argument
Everything left unattended gradually disintegrates. If one builds a house and leaves it unattended, in a few weeks it will become full of dust. In thirty years or so the paint will start falling off. After two hundred years or so some of the walls will start to weaken and fall, and maybe in a thousand years or so the whole house will be flat to the ground. In other words, and if left unattended, any organised structure or system will eventually become one of chaos.
Never will chaos suddenly spring into a system. A house will never spring into being of its own doing.
If we try to analyse what has actually happened on earth we realise that it was quite remarkable. When the earth was first formed it was a very hostile hot planet with no form of life whatsoever. Gradually simple forms of life evolved leading all the time to more complex forms of living creatures and culminating in the appearance of mankind. The trend has been reversed, instead of things crumbling they have in fact developed all the time to higher forms of being. Chaos has developed into a system. Has the earth been attended all the time?
It is amusing, to put it mildly, to observe man so full of vanity thinking he is the master of everything merely because he is given some intelligence to discover some of the laws of the universe. In reality, man has no authority in setting or altering such laws. With the aid of the physical senses, man is given a view over a divine masterpiece, but considering the human being is a mere spectator within the huge universe, he can indeed be very pompous!
There is so much symmetry in the universe to be able to go through all of it, but one particular design has special appeal,. And that is the Macro/Micro pattern.
d- The Macro/Micro patterns
If we look at the universe at large we find that it is composed of vast areas of empty space and also other areas containing shapeless matter in the form of hot gases, dark matter and formed stars. These stars group together to form galaxies. Our galaxy, ‘The Milky Way’ has within it no less than 100 billion individual stars. Our star, the sun, has nine planets in orbit around it. Most of these planets have a number of moons again in orbit. The basic force that governs the movement of all these bodies is gravity. The moons rotate around their planets, which all rotate around the mother star, which in our case is the sun. Similarly, all these stars revolve round the centre of gravity of the galaxy.
Galaxies group together to form clusters of galaxies and once again individual galaxies revolve round the centre of gravity of the cluster. Clusters group together to form super-clusters, and these obey the same laws. These are the largest units in the universe as we know it today.
However, and if we proceed in the opposite direction, we notice that the similarity is truly remarkable. If we look at the other end of the scale and examine the atom which is the smallest form of substance able to exist in a chemical reaction, we find that it is composed of electrons revolving round a nucleus, in the same way as stars revolve round the centre of gravity of their galaxies. Are we but seeing the finger prints of the creator?” —————————————————————————–
The last part I chose not to include because it didn’t tie in with my point, and personally, I don’t think that an astronaut’s questioning God would cause him to have died in a helicopter accident. I don’t believe an omnipotent and all-powerful creator of everything we know would need to prove a point to one man out of a many that choose to question or mock Him daily. But, I can honestly say myself that I have thought at times in my life how it would make things easier to a human being to know that there wasn’t a God, but I find as I grow older, there is too much beauty in life not only in the physical characteristics of the galaxy and this world we live in, as well as in the relationships we are capable to have with one another if we really choose to make an honest effort. So much for question 0. The others will be shorter I promise.
1 & 2. This again is not something I can say out pure knowledge and understanding, because no person can prove without a doubt that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, although I have seen many attempts to try (sometimes quite silly). I again claim to NOT be an expert or the sort on any of the Holy Texts. I have read only a small portion of the Quran (Moslem holy book), but I find that it resembles the Old Testament in message. The Quran actually speaks of Jesus Christ and they recognize him as a Prophet of God, but nothing more. What we do know is that the New Testament was put together under Emperor Constantine and the council of Nicea in the 300’s CE at some point (again, not an expert). This is not to say that in was constructed there, for the works existed before that time. According to historical fact, Jesus Christ died in 33 CE, so they probably were beginning to have been written soon after that point. Many assume that much more about the life of Jesus was in writing and they failed to put it in, and that is very believable. Many times, religious leaders became drunk with power, and it is very possible that they could have left out something if it could benifeit them monetarily. That’s not to say that’s the case, for it’s impossible for me to know for sure. But the fact of the matter is that Jesus Christ was defiantly a part of history whether you believe it or not. That being said, I cannot show you evidence that his mother conceived him being a virgin, but with an opened mind, I can see how a Being capable of creating man and woman could also create a child without the use of the man. As for his reasons for creating a Son, I can merely speculate. This has to be observed with an open mind, because it is extremely difficult to get beyond our own realm of thought. All of our knowledge is based on factual evidence, recorded events, experiences, etc. We have gained knowledge by experimentation and have also put down logical hypotheses through the same method. (Think back to Geo-centric theory). All I’m saying is that when we think we have it figured out, a new theory comes along, so I choose to be content with the fact that I personally know nothing. With that, I believe that we as a race will come to know so much more, given time and chance. So back to the actual question…with an opened mind, we can at least assume that there is perhaps a little more out there than we can see. Just as we could have been created, whether from soil or from evolution, (we are what we are nevertheless) other beings could have been created, like us, with free will. If the stories of angels are true, then free will could have led some of them to believe in God for what he was, or they could choose to doubt. According to the new testament (sorry I forget exactly where so I will not go in depth) some angels were cast out from Gods grace, as it is put, and among these were Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub. I’m not sure if these are all synonymous with one of his angels or maybe a few, but regardless, all of the names are associated with evil and lack of anything good according to many texts. If God cast them out, they with free will, could choose to disobey further and maybe even make certain vices seem appealing to us as humans. These vices are referred to as sin in the bible. If Satan, who was a powerful angel, decided to rebel even further knowing that he could deceive another of God’s creations (us), he could do it, and we may not even know it. The truth is, though that we all sin and even the most pious Christian/Jew/Muslim/Athiest many times seems so cocky and fixed in their beliefs that it only turns people off to their views. We all have a comfort zone, and when we begin to be nudged out, we panic. Hence the reactions when someone says it must be seen THIS WAY. If Satan were capable of dragging us down with him, so to speak, he would. The question as to Jesus and where He fits in, He can be seen as a Savior, losing his life to the very people who He was here for. He can be seen as a prophet, doing wonderful things and inspiring people, or He can be seen as nothing…a lie…a fabrication in order for people to make a profit or control the masses. Regardless of the many ways he can be seen, it is what he stands for that is important if we are still in the opened-minded perspective necessary to swallow the unfathomable. Jesus was a man of blood and chromosomes, just like any one of us. He saw things in a different light, as many have before, but I cannot say that he was or was not divinely inspired, but he definitely was pointing constantly in the direction of a larger being, as many have before. Just as many chose to believe or not believe in God before Jesus, the choices are being made now based on hearsay, personal experiences, etc. I don’t see why everyone before Jesus would have gone to hell, because there were many that believed in God, Allah, etc.
3 4 & 5 . Persecutions, killings, burning witches in the name of God, Inquisitions, Crusades, Wars, Iraq invasion…all of these are just a few of the things that have been going on during the longevity of time as we know it, and it is the product of free will, and becoming drunk with power. I cannot say that I’ve never fried some ants with a magnifying glass, but hopefully I wouldn’t equate that into human lives being that meaningless. But with the right culture and upbringing, I could be a grave robber/necrophile/pedophile/mass murderer/cruel dictator/president?/as anyone. With an endless supply of wealth, power, and the yearning for more land,riches,women,etc, I could do horrible things and even in the name of religion. Especially if I grew up seeing how people reacted to religion, as it is a touchy subject. People want to believe in something and they want to believe in their leaders. If I were a man who grew up in the aristocracy and had racisms/stereotypes/hatreds institutionally programmed into me, then I promise I could be just as capable as anybody and be justified to myself in my decisions. I am, however thankful that I am not that bad, (less the occasional grave robbing, tee hee).
6. Some of these may be blamed on translation, and some maybe on the fact that it was written by men. If a man who took his religious practices out of context told someone to kill homosexuals or something of the like, it could make it’s way to the pages of the book that is supposed to be 100% perfect. The overall message is perfect, but the fact that some people relay it with slight biased really gets in the way of understanding. I use homosexuality because I’ve heard it argued and seen it protested with picket signs. According to the holy texts, homosexuality is a sin. Because of this, we have church denominations turning them away because of their pre-programmed sexuality. This is one of the many occurrences that can happen to anyone born into this world. It is not fair to point the finger at someone who is doing wrong in our beliefs when in doing that we are ignoring our own areas that need work. It is necessary though, that we be willing to come to grips with the fact that at any moment, our whole world as we know it can be ripped out from under us. We can lose our whole family in a natural or man-made disaster. We can find our health to be frittering away due to cancer, or some other horrible disease. The scripture about hating not your father, etc. (Luke 14:26) I think can be clarified with this reasoning. Translation can make it seem as though we are supposed to literally despise our close ones, but God’s message according to the bible is that if you love and trust him completely, then you will never taste complete and utter loss, because He is always available.
7. I’m not sure if I understand what you mean about racism here. But what Jesus said to her did draw an answer that freed her child of a demon.
Comment by shlegminitism — 5 November, 2006 #
Rofl, I love how both these lines are right next to eachother
“1- Since the universe had a definite beginning, we can say that it was created.
2- Laws of physics states that matter cannot be created!”
Thanks for the laugh.
Comment by Bing — 5 November, 2006 #
“if empiricism is knowledge gained through experience, then how would testimony of others be empirical? We did not experience god, or experience creationism…
Where as with evolution, we have witnessed how species have changed and evolved, and hence come up with this theory, which sounds more like empiricism to me.”
In regards to your comment above, when and where have we ever seen a new species come from a previous one. There is no evidence of anything other than micro-evoloution. When it comes down to it, Darwin’s famous finch observations saw nothing more than variations within the same species. A finch with a longer beak is still a finch. They were still able to mate and produce … guess what … more finches, not reptiles. There are nothing but gaps in all of the fossill records. There exists no transitional species fossils anywhere. Also, the so-called geologic column only exists in one place .. inside the pages of the texts that would have us believe it exists in the real world. How do you explain human-made iron bells fused into rock that is, by evolutionists estimates, to be millions of years old. Evolution is not supported by science. The converse is true. Creation is supported by what we observe around us, in more than just scientific ways. The idea of evolution itself has created such madmen as Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Pol Pot, several of the kids who have gunned down their classmates in the last few years, and others are waiting in the wings to take power and purge the planet of people who have faith in their creator. Anyone who has this ridiculous faith in evolution is dangerous.
Comment by Ronzo — 5 November, 2006 #
7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.
a: All humans descend from Noah and the other inhabitants of the Ark (the rest were drowned, remember?) therefore there is only one race so there can be no racism
i can’t believe that I’ve never thought of that myself.
- IF the earth is only 6,000 years old, then how account for mulitlple ethnicities worldwide when we’re all descended from a small group of a dozen or so 5,000 yeara ago!?
this question would of course be only directed to biblical literalists.
Comment by blissamerica — 5 November, 2006 #
7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.
a: All humans descend from Noah and the other inhabitants of the Ark (the rest were drowned, remember?) therefore there is only one race so there can be no racism
i can’t believe that I’ve never thought of that myself.
- IF the earth is only 6,000 years old, then how account for mulitlple ethnicities worldwide when we’re all descended from a small group of a dozen or so 5,000 yeara ago!?
this question would of course be only directed to biblical literalists. i really am interested in an answer, so please keep the napalm launchers holstered! lol
Comment by blissamerica — 5 November, 2006 #
is there a specific reason why the list begins with “0″ as opposed to one? why is question twelve limited to 100 words, when people have written 500 page analysises on the topic in an attempt to explain it. i obviously did not read all of the questions, i was just curious about those things…
Comment by shiftingtheparadigm — 5 November, 2006 #
0. I am not one to come out and label my beliefs a “sect,” but I suppose one could say I am a Pentecostal. The fundamental teachings are the same as other denominations: Christ is the only way to heaven, all have sinned, God made the universe. The main difference in beliefs is that while a large portion of the church (church meaning all Christians) has dropped the acts of speaking in tongues and divine healings, we still teach and operate in these gifts. I could go on, but for the sake of keeping the answers short and readable, I will move on to other answers. Any questions of yours will be answered by my answers.
1. I appreciate the sarcasm. The reason why Jesus had to die was because all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23). God requires that one be perfect to be in heaven. Since none are perfect, God gave us all the way in: His Son. Christ’s blood purifies and redeems the sinner in God’s eyes. So if we confess with our mouth and believe in our hearts that God raised Christ, we shall be saved (Rom 10:9).
2. No, everybody who died before Jesus certainly did not go to hell. Before Christ, the Jews were living under the Old Covenant (Hence the Old Testament). Under this, God still required that the Jews be made free of sin to enter Abraham’s Bosom. But since all have sinned, the Jews follow(ed) strict laws, and rituals of sacrifice to maintain their salvation.
3. I fall under the Protestant Category for this one. First of all it was not just Protestants killing Indians. To blame them entirely for the Native American’s downfall is a gross inaccuracy. Second of all, I cannot, in my own eyes, justify the witch trials or the killing of any other person. It will always be wrong to kill another. However, in those days the Church was acting out of fear under the leadership of stern preachers such as Jonathan Edwards who is famous for his “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” sermon. Read it and you will see what I mean. Americans of all societies should know how people respond to other people whom they fear. Just look back at how we responded to communism in the 20th century.
4. Similar to response 3. Persecuting for any reason is wrong and against the Bible. To “Love thy neighbor as thyself” (Matt 22:39) was the second chief principle of Jesus. I can only speculate that the people of the time were acting out of fear and from the orders and teachings of their elders / clergymen. In their eyes they needed to spread the gospel by any means necessary.
5. Similar to the previous two. No specific example is cited, so there is nothing to address or add that hasn’t already been stated.
6. Before addressing the scriptures, let me say that we know God is love because the Bible says God is Love (1John 4:8). I can see that this is sort of like saying “God is good because God said so,” but if one looks at the Bible as a whole, one can see that God truly is a God of love. For god so loved the world that he gave His son… (John 3:16). For the scriptures, the passages from the Old Testament show that God has anger and will carry out His judgment. A lot of the things God did in the Old Testament (such as killing people) are because of that reason: They are from the Old Testament, which is the old covenant that the Hebrews had with God. The Hebrew are God’s people and he protected them, even in battle, out of love. Also these verses are being taken out of context. When applied to the chapters as a whole, one can see that these were His actions in specific situations, not his overall demeanor. Finally, Jesus established the new covenant, which is what all Christians live under. In this covenant God does not pour out his wrath at every offense, this is saved for the final judgment.
7. The Bible does not support racism. This passage is again being taken out of context. The reason Jesus parabled the woman as a dog was because she was a gentile, and at that time Jesus had been sent for the Jews. But because of that woman’s faith, Jesus sent the unclean spirit from her daughter anyway. A gentile at that time was defined as everybody that was not a Hebrew. This could be seen as a form of racism, except Christ also was extended to the gentiles (Rom 1:16).
8. The Bible does not support the oppression of women. The Bible does however define a woman’s place in the family: second to the husband. The Bible also says that the husband is to love his wife as himself. In this, man and wife meet the others needs, yet the woman yields to the man in specific matters. For the referenced scriptures:
1 Cor – There are parts, such as the women needing to be covered, that are meant specifically for the Corinth church. This is why the Corinth church is asked to judge for itself on these matters. The other parts mention that the man was created before the woman, and the woman from the man. This reveals that God made the woman from the man that the woman would serve the man in marriage as his wife; likewise the man would love her as his own flesh. This does not mean that women are inferior to men, only that in marriage, the man is the head of the family.
1 Tim – This epistle was written by Paul to Timothy, who was at Ephesus. The reason Paul wrote the letter was to tell Timothy how to teach specifically at the church in Ephesus. In reading the first chapter we see that Paul “charged” Timothy with this duty because there were women causing problems within the church. This was Paul’s solution.
9. The Bible does not support slavery. God led His people out of slavery in Egypt through Moses after all. If one reads the verse after the one cited, it clearly states that the bondsman is “suffering wrongfully.” A proper interpretation would be telling slaves not to hate their masters, for it is wrong to hate, but instead to do the work required without strife, knowing their reward waits in heaven.
10. Under the new covenant, the Bible does not tell children to obey every command, even if wrong, that their parents give. The scripture in Deuteronomy applies to the Hebrew under the old covenant. Deuteronomy is one of the five books of law after all. However, the scriptures cited talks about parents taking their son to the elders of the town because he is a drunkard and they need help with him. None of the verses have anything to do with following evil orders of parents. Instead, these scriptures merely state that if parents love their children they will punish them when they misbehave so that the children may grow up to be loving people and not vandals. The Bible does say to honor thy father and mother, but you can honor your parents without doing wrong.
11. What do you mean a “better way?” God already gave us the easiest way there is to heaven. You don’t have to do anything special, just confess and believe Christ crucified. It couldn’t be easier. Do you think that people should be allowed into heaven when they refuse to believe the reason behind heaven or its existence? We all are originally destined for hell, all of us. That God gave us a free way out shows his love for his creation. God knew that many would not be able to accept their own imperfections and accept His standard. That is why there are few who enter by the narrow path. That this set of questions has so much support, in itself supports this verse.
12. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life (Rom 6:23). We are all condemned to death for sinning. The reason we go to hell is because we are sinners who have rejected God. Those who believe are partakers of the gift of eternal life. Living a life of wickedness and not repenting condemns a person to hell. But God gave us such a simple way out.
13. The terms “just” and “merciful” do not contradict each other. If anything they go together. Our courts in the U.S. are merciful and just. A man is innocent until proven beyond doubt that he is guilty. Penalties for first time offenders are lesser than penalties for repeat offenders. God is merciful and just in that he showed mercy to man by sending Christ that we may escape damnation, he is just in that he holds man accountable for his actions.
14. Devils and demon possession is a tricky subject because many Christians do not acknowledge their presence. The Old Testament is primarily about the Hebrew people. Being God’s people, devils would have a hard time occupying one of their bodies. For one, the person would be fortified in Him, and two, God would not suffer their presence in one of His people’s bodies. In the New Testament, the people who are possessed are healed by their or their loved one’s faith in Jesus. And devils have certainly not been “explained away” by epilepsy and schizophrenia. One would be mistaken if they thought these were the effects of being demon possessed. They can be however symptoms brought on by a devil. But the reason demon possession is not a frequently publicized occurrence is, well there are several reasons. First, the media could never credibly cover such a story. Two, if people knew that devils were possessing people, it would prove their existence as well as the existence of God, the devil does not want that. Three, people are still possessed by demons today. That is why the church has been charged with casting them out. I assure you that worse things happen to people possessed than epilepsy or schizophrenia. Finally, the devil did not want Christ to succeed in his purpose. So he tried to put as many stumbling blocks as he could in Jesus’ way.
15. Do you know how much of the brain scientists still do not understand? One teaching is that a person’s unconsciousness is actually their soul. First of all, it is the spirit, not the soul, which gets us to heaven. If we are Christians, we have born again spirits. The soul is the middle man between the spirit and the flesh. So what affects the one, affects the other. If the soul resides in the brain, then affecting the brain would affect the soul, but never the spirit.
16. Why would you let your loved ones go to hell if you knew about heaven? Furthermore, when you get to heaven you get a new, perfect body, one which is without sin. The Bible also says that unless a man hates his father and mother and children and wife and his own life, he will not be a disciple (Luke 14:26). What Jesus meant by this was that we should not be attached to the things of this world, including our families, to the extent that it makes them idols before God. So in other words, a person’s eternity will not be ruined if some of his or her loved ones are in hell.
17. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away (Rev 21:4). Heaven will be a perfect place. The people in the Bible don’t give much of a description of what heaven will look like. For it is written that eye has not seen nor ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man, the things God has prepared for those that love him (1Cor 2:9). In my opinion, I think its better this way. I want to be completely surprised by what my God has made for me.
18. Hell is described as an unquenchable fire (Mark 9:43). It is everlasting punishment (Matt 25:46). Hell is the devil’s domain now, and he torments those who are sent there.
19. Original sin exists because God made Adam and Eve perfect. There was nothing wrong with them, but when Adam sinned, he fell, and sin entered the world. The reason we are punished is not because of Adam’s sin, Adam’s sin only opened the door for us to sin, which is what we are punished for. Children are not born evil, but all are born with the ability to sin. This is why children are taken in the rapture, because until a child reaches a certain age of understanding between right and wrong, the child is alive to God.
20. The physical baptism of water does not keep you from hell. Baptism is merely an act or symbol to show the Church and yourself that you have accepted Christ. This activity is something that has been over stressed. I have never been baptized, yet I assure you I am definitely going to heaven. The only way to go to heaven is to confess and believe Christ rose again after being crucified for your sins. This act is the baptism of Christ, which is with blood, not with water.
21. To label the placement of the tree in the garden as entrapment is ludicrous. By that reasoning, any store that has its merchandise on display would also be guilty of entrapment because it tempts people to steal. The reason the tree was placed in the garden was so that man could choose whether or not to obey God. If God has just made man and not let him choose, then where would be the love in that? God made man for companionship, not unquestioning servitude.
22. My church does not teach sex is evil. On the contrary it teaches that sex is a wonderful gift that God gave man, which it is. The scriptures cited do not say that sex is evil or anything even close to this. They do say that sex is something reserved for marriage and that it is natural for the flesh to desire sex, so sex outside of marriage (fornication) is wrong. Sex within marriage is a wonderful act of love. God gave us the spirit that we may control the flesh. This is why God asks us to walk in the spirit and not in the flesh. The reason the Bible says it is better for a man not to touch a woman is because it is easier for a person to serve the Lord when they do not have cares for this life getting in the way. A married man cares for things of this world, how he may please his wife (1Cor 7:33). An unmarried man is free to devote his life to the Lord.
23. Jesus taught that he could return to rapture the Church at any moment because Jesus can return at any moment. He will come like a thief in the night (1Thess 5:12) and nobody but God knows when that will be. For Jesus to say “you guys are in the clear, I won’t be coming for a few millennia” would’ve been wrong.
24. Miracles were not and still are not limited to just the apostles. Granted the apostles had a lot of miracles due to their strong faith, but any Christian has the potential to perform a miracle. However not all Christians, in fact the majority, ever will. This is because miracles, such as divine healings, come only by faith. Any time that the apostles failed to cast out a devil, Jesus replied “it is because of your unbelief,” And that “this kind cometh out not buy by prayer and fasting” (Matt 17:20-21). Just take a look at recent evangelists like Jack Coe, Smith Wigglesworth, Kenneth Hagin, and today’s Dave Roberson. These men cast out demons and heal the sick through Jesus regularly. Wigglesworth even has documented miracles, which are with legal officials present. Jack Coe went on trial for practicing medicine without a license due to the number of people he healed. There is film of this man holding cancer that has fallen off of a man’s face. For his defense, several evangelists of the time came in and performed healings in the courtroom. The case was dropped.
25. The stories of the resurrection (I assume you mean Jesus’ from the dead) are in the four gospels. Each one includes and omits minor details, but the major details are the same. Show me something that is “inconsistent” and I will address it.
26. I use the King James Version of the Bible as my primary text. This is because it was made in 1611 and has undergone repeated revisions to ensure that it is as accurate to the original Greek and Hebrew texts as possible. It is true that this Bible is a translation of the Bible the Catholics used, but at that time the Catholics had all the texts and were the predominant church, where else would one turn for a copy of the Bible? And why should the denominations matter for the version of the Bible used in your eyes? You have already lumped all of us together for the wrongful persecutions of past generations, now you separate us to further try to persecute us, only to fail?
27. What kind of a question is that? Animals eat meat because meat tastes good and sustains the body. God designed it this way because, well, if all of the creatures were herbivores, think of the overpopulation that would ensue, followed by the extinction of several species after they overgraze the planets vegetation. We eat meat for population control and balance.
28. This question is just as ridiculous as the first. First of all, not all parasites are bad, some are actually helpful (like with the sharks and remora). Parasites may not have always been parasites. In the Garden of Eden I can say for certain that parasites would not have plagued it, because it was paradise. And who is to say that these creatures did not evolve (via micro evolution) into the nasty life forms they are today? Please note I do not support macro evolution.
29. Hell isn’t a threat, it’s a spiritual law. It is the place one must go if they refuse God. This is why God gave us a way out. Punishment, while a deterrence, does not violate free will. If it did, then why are our jails filled with criminals?
30. God has never been the cause of sin, ever. These people were already sinning, so God used them as examples of His power in casting his judgment. The reason God did this is actually cited in the texts referenced. Pharaoh was revolting against God, so he punished him. These examples with the pharaoh are in the Old Testament, but under our new covenant, God will not do this. And yes, pharaoh was accountable for his sin, but the sin was already there. The “hardening of his heart” means that God did not appeal to pharaoh; He let pharaoh continue down his path to destruction.
31. Judas did not have to be damned. If Judas would have repented before killing himself then he would have gone to heaven. But he apparently felt his act was too horrible. God did not want Judas, or anybody, to go to hell. Judas went to hell by his choice.
32. Judas did not have to go to hell. He did not make a great sacrifice for humanity; he betrayed Jesus and refused to repent despite his grief.
33. Of course the apostles lied at some point in their life. Everybody reading this has lied. Paul said that the lies were wrong in the referenced text. The reason why we believe the epistles is because they were written to the church by the people who were serving God the most. If a person is seeking God with their whole heart, as these men were, then they could not write such deception. I would also mention divine inspiration, but apparently that would be seen as “cheating,” despite that it would also be true.
34. God has said that homosexuality is wrong. He, like me, hates the act, but not the person. The Leviticus passage refers to Old Testament law (Leviticus being one of the books of law). This law was that homosexuality was to be punished. The passage from Romans merely states that the people gave themselves over to perverse lifestyles and God did not approve. So while God is against the act, He is not against the person. And to answer why God “made” homosexuals first requires one to believe that homosexuality is a biological predetermination, and not a lifestyle choice. Personally I believe it is a choice, therefore God did not create the homosexual, the homosexual created himself. If one believes it is not a choice but genetics, then this can be explained by a mutation or alteration of the gene after God created man, a form of “evolution” if you will.
35. A prayer is directed to God, spell casting is not. God said “you shall have no other idols before me.” To pray to another being would break one of the Ten Commandments. And the intercession would not necessarily break the laws of physics.
36. First of all, do you know how difficult it would have been to try to find that much parchment and ink to write all this down at the time it happened and then try to carry all of the text around as you traveled from city to city? Secondly, the people may not have thought to write them down in a manner that would be preserved until some time after the event had happened. If something this huge had happened a few years ago, and there was no immediate need to write it down for future generations since you could give a first or second hand account, would you? Just because scholars didn’t find more text about Jesus, doesn’t mean it wasn’t written; only that it was not preserved. Since to the Romans he was merely a “pain in the butt,” why would they chronicle the life of some random man? Christianity did not start to make its way into Rome until around the 3rd century.
37. Because there is a large amount of text (the Bible) and other documents that show a man named Jesus was born and lived in that time. Islam and Judaism both say there was a man named Jesus who lived at this time. Finally you admit yourself that there are Roman records of his existence (See #36).
38. Christ is the modern day usage of Christos, which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word Messias, or Messiah. Christ is used to mean messiah or high priest. Jesus is both the messiah and high priest of Christianity. Please show me a source giving it a pagan origin, since it clearly is not.
39. I’ve already explained that Jesus was not opposed to gentiles or sex (See 7 and 22). I am unsure as to what you mean by the pagan sexual rite after his death. If you mean the woman who poured oil and his feet and washed them with her hair, this was done before His death and as a symbol to prepare him for death. As far as any oils anointed on him after death, it was common to put sweet smelling oils on bodies at this time to mask the stench of decaying flesh in the tombs. Since I already showed you that the only way Christ has pagan roots is if you mean that the Romans were pagans before Christians, my definition form 38 does not apply.
40. Matt 10:34 is when Jesus is saying that though He came for our salvation, His act will set father against son and family against family, which it has. Jesus is called the Prince of Peace because in Isaiah 9:6 it is one of the names given to the coming messiah. And indeed Jesus will restore peace to the world after the devil has been thrown into the lake of fire.
41. Jesus comes from the name Iesous (Yay-soos), which is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name Yeshua “He Shall Save”, which is the short form of Yehoshua, “Yahweh Is Salvation.” This information is from Strong’s Greek Dictionary (see Strong #2424).
42. It wasn’t. Please show me a single credible text stating that Jesus’ life was the same as any of these men’s (meaning the story of their lives from an ancient text, not another geocities website saying Jesus was a pagan). There may have been ideological similarities between the two, but little more. That their lives are identical is a myth.
43. You are correct in that it is our free will to worship and obey God. But just because it is a free will to serve God doesn’t mean to neglect policies in a democratic nation. First of all, most politicians are WASPS (white Anglo-Saxon Protestants). As a Christian it makes sense that their Christian views would be represented, being that they are the chief legislators of the nation. Many Christians also believe that this nation was founded on Christianity so it only makes sense that Christianity be looked after in public policy.
44. The Bible does not say you have to convert anybody to go to heaven. The Bible only says that we should go unto all people and preach the gospel that all may be saved (Mark 16:15). While I disagree with literally forcing Christianity on a person, I do agree that one should never stop trying to reach another person to lead them to Jesus.
45. Spreading the Gospel does not require spreading lies about anything. It only requires spreading the truth of God. The reason Christians in the past may have said Wicca’s served our Christian devil is because to us there is only one devil that can be served.
46. That Jesus always referred to Himself as the son of man is a great point. He was the son of man. But he was also the Son of God. The devil calls him the son of God in Matt 4:3. His apostles knew he was the Son of God, the Messiah (Matt 14:33). But if Jesus went around telling everybody he was the Son of God, then He would have been killed long before His time. Jesus had to deal with many devils trying to reveal him as the Christ before his time in his life, such as Matt 8.
47. While the ideas of the golden rule and turn the other cheek may be Buddhist now, and while Buddhism began before Christianity, that does not mean the Buddhists had these sayings first. It is possible and likely that they were adapted to the philosophy after Jesus spoke them (unless you can show me an ancient text that predates Jesus’ saying of these). The reason the Beatitudes were common the Jewish devotional literature at the time is because Jesus was a Jew and that literature was Christian literature based on Jesus’ teachings. Some of the Jews followed Jesus. Jesus was not a thinker or philosopher, He already had all the answers; He went around and taught them.
48. You answered your own question within the question. If the nation is 85% Christian, and democracy is based on the majority being represented the best, doesn’t make sense that Christianity is represented? While we don’t have to fight for our rights in this nation, there are Christians in other nations, such as China, where they are not as fortunate as we are. Their churches are underground though.
49. Christian holidays being on the same day as pagan holidays likely stems from Rome. The Romans were initially pagan, so the change to Christianity would have been easier if certain traditions were maintained. Besides, it is not important when the event is celebrated, but that the event is remembered. The pagan’s were converted to Christianity by appealing to them, the holiday dates were likely kept out of tradition.
50. This is the same question as question 13, just with a scripture added. So please see response 13. As for the text cited, I assume you mean God’s description as being a jealous God. The Greek word used can also mean angry or zealous. That God would “visit the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me” does show an angry God. But take this in context; this is from the Old Testament, where God still poured out his judgment as he saw fit, when he saw fit.
51. The Old Testament is to be used an as an example and to learn from. While Christians how a better, perfect covenant with Jesus, the Hebrew people living under the old covenant is there to be used as a guide. Certain aspects of the Old Testaments theology, such as the Ten Commandments, moved on to the New Testament. Other laws did not. The New Testament is the Christian standard for living.
52. First of all, Elisha was a pretty much a bad bottom prophet. Second of all, Elisha cursed the children. Since Elisha was such a powerful prophet God sent two bears after them. This is another example of God sending His judgment forth under the Old Testament. God did now show mercy to the children because they were not Jews. He was just in that he answered Elisha.
53. There are examples of prostitution because prostitution happened. God most certainly does not support the act since he has already stated sex is for marriage only. The referenced scripture is not dealing with prostitution though. It is dealing with Sodom, a city so corrupt that a sexual act has been named after it. Lot was offering his daughters to a mob to save two men. The two men had come to warn Lot to leave Sodom because God was going to destroy the city. The two men smote the mob in front of Lot’s house and told Lot to gather his family and belongings and leave without looking back the next morning.
54. The wags of sin is death. A sin is a sin in God’s eyes. So murdering a person is the same as telling a lie in terms of sin in God’s eyes. The reason God ultimately sent His Son was because what the Jews had been doing wasn’t working. God needed a better covenant that would allow His people’s sins to be covered once and for all. The only way to do this was through Jesus.
55. Define “bad.” If by bad you mean are they a person that one should not associate with, then the answer is no, not all non Christians are bad. Most of my friends call themselves atheists, but we are good friends. If by “bad” you mean going to hell, then yes. Anybody who has not confessed Christ as their savior is going to hell. “Jesus said to him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me” (John 14:6). Then everyone who shall confess Me before men, I will confess him before My Father who is in Heaven (Matt 10:32).
56. See #55.
57. Well the Bible says to preach to everybody. But the reason why I specifically responded to this is because, while I know that very few, if any will end up reading all these responses, the people of the internet need to know the truth and that this barrage of questions can be answered without lying or compromising any of my beliefs.
58. The Garden of Eden was paradise on Earth. After Adam and Eves’ sin God moved the garden. Abraham’s Bosom is a word many interpret to be heaven. This was a place where the Jews went when they died that was adjacent to hell. People in these two places could see each other (Luke 16:22-24). Heaven, which is where those who died after Jesus’ resurrection can go, is located in, well Heaven. The Bible does not give a physical location in our universe, but the sky is often described as the heavens throughout the Bible.
59. Hell is mentioned as being down, in the depths of the earth (Eph 4:9). Hell is also described as a lake of fire. Liquid fire, or magma, is what one gets when one digs to the middle of the earth.
60. Animal’s don’t go to heaven or hell because animals do no have a spirit. God created man for companionship and the animals were created to serve man on this world. While animals can be described as having souls (since they have intellect and personality) they do not have a spirit, so they cannot go to heaven.
61. Satan is not specifically after their souls, like some sort of monster that needs them for a power source, but he walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour (1Peter 5:8). If you are familiar with Milton’s Paradise Lost, then you know the famous line “better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven.” Essentially Milton says that since the devil cannot directly attack God, he instead attacks God’s creatures, people. This way the devil can inflict sorrow on God.
62. Again, it’s not as though Satan is using peoples’ souls as energy or something. When a person goes to hell, the devil and his minions torment them out of hate.
63. Yes my God is perfect. He is the Rock, His work is perfect: for all His ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he (Deut 32:4). He made this universe, he made life, and he made a way for that life to be saved. He gave us great gifts; He has always kept His word and even placed His word above His name (Psalm 138:2).
64. As I mentioned before some say that the soul is the subconsciousness of the mind. Teachings on body, soul, and spirit also state that within your physical man is a spirit man, who looks exactly like your physical man. The soul is the go between of the two. By this I mean that your spirit receives from God, and your spirit makes that revelation known to your fleshly mind.
65. First of all, who is Satan? Satan was Lucifer, and angel of God. Lucifer left heaven and took a third of the angels with him. They went to hell and Lucifer became the king of this world. It was him he tempted Eve in the garden. Lucifer and Satan are mentioned twenty separate times in the Old Testament. Clearly they knew of his existence.
66. Define evil? Do you mean those unsaved or those who practice evil acts? Those who practice evil acts prosper because they pursue their goal by any means necessary. Depending on that goal, there could also be a demonic intervention aiding their cause. Take Hitler for example. The Catholic Church and many other Christians believe he was possessed. The rapid success of his campaign and his amazing oratory skills warrant suspension. If by evil you only mean those not saved, then the answer is simple. We live in a world based on rules and law, if a man practices certain activities, he will become successful.
67. Good people fail just as often as bad people. (These are very vague terms.) However, if by good you mean those who are saved, then I have two things to say. The devil seeks to discourage the believer, which could mean making them fail at something. However, the believer is also entitled to prosperity in Christ, which explains why several successful people are practicing Christians.
68. When Jesus comes, we are taken in an instant to meet him in the sky. As I said before we are given perfect bodies in heaven, so our physical body on the earth would not be necessary. Since we are described as meeting him among the clouds in the air, and being with him for ever, it sounds as though we are in our physical bodies. Depictions of the rapture support this.
69. This is the age old “why does God let bad things happen” question. The answer is that we live under the new covenant, meaning that any movement of God on this earth, until the coming of Christ, must start in the people of this earth. God ascended on high and gave gifts to men (Eph 4:8). It is not God’s fault that the airplane crashed, it crashed due to the laws established on this earth, and God could not step in to prevent the crash because it would break his covenant.
70. Sin is any action against God or is teaching. Anything that falls under the “Not loving thy neighbor as thyself” category is sin. Sin is an offense to God. It can also be seen as missing the mark.
71. How does Jesus’ act of commanding a fig tree to die make him imperfect? The tree was not producing any fruit, so Jesus removed it. Just because he did it a bit differently than a lumberjack would have, does not make it wrong. After his disciples wondered at the act he went on to explain to the disciples that if they confessed it and believed it, they could move a mountain into the ocean with their faith.
72. I’m pretty sure I’ve already answered this since most questions are becoming redundant at this point, but the Christians see Wicca as a demonic teaching, therefore it is wrong. Persecution arises from fear and wrongful hatred of this.
73. This epistle is specifically addressing the Thessalonians church. In the early days of the church, some of the Jews who did not accept Jesus as the Christ persecuted the Christians. This was one of those groups of Jews. And yes, the Roman government put Jesus to death, but Pilate washed his hands of Jesus’ death after trying to free him. It was the Jews who hated Jesus for calling himself the messiah when they believed he was not that were responsible for his capture and being put to the cross. They were constantly looking for ways to get rid of Jesus and finally found a way through the Roman government.
74. God did not create humans imperfect. God created man in His own perfect image. When man betrayed God and ate the fruit, man fell, and we all suffer the consequences of sin. God’s standards are so high because God wants us to be with him, but sin cannot abide in His sight. All have sinned and fallen short of God, so God sent us Jesus that we may dwell with Him. It is not entrapment because the reason we sin is not God’s fault, we sin because we choose to. And in choosing to sin we betray God and are condemned to hell, just like a criminal is condemned to jail after betraying the law.
75. Yes, man was originally created in God’s likeness. In fact, the Bible says man was created just below God, but even above the angels. The reason man is imperfect today is because sin has corrupted our bodies and bloodline from Adam until today.
Comment by Matt05 — 5 November, 2006 #
matto, i applaud you
you just pwned whoever wrote the questions
Comment by cornish — 5 November, 2006 #
Instead of everyone getting there panties in a complete and utter not, they need to look up just a few verses. I use to be a Christian, but am not now, But I can still easily refute this as the verses are contrary to what the article states.
I hope it isn’t the Christians that are complaining with such vulgarity, all you need to do is open the bible and see the verses. I actually find this humorous as the idiot who wrote it has no knowledge of the bible.
Comment by kgw — 5 November, 2006 #
matt05,
i am VERY impressed that you completed 75 questions. Hope you dom’t mind if ask clarifications where i feel you were vague.
0. why do modern toungues speakern not speak in known languages, when in the NT speaking in tongues meant speaking in a known lanquage.
1. maybe the qustion should be, why can forgiveness only be bought by blood, if God a God of love? Human Sacrifice is awful extreme, wouldn’t you say?
2. in answering question #2 you only talk about the Jews avoiding hell via the LAW. what of the gentile races that were extant at that time who did not have benefit of living under
Judaic Law?
3-5. Do you feel that the perpetrators of these acts believed they were acting under God’s orders? What do you think this has to do with the Genocide of the Cannanites by the Isrealites under God’s Orders?
6. in your answer, you seem to say that in the OT, God loved only the Hebrew people, even though he created all humans. Why did he not love all of his creation until NT times? You seem sort of like a battered spouse in being apologetic for God’s behaviour. “He hits me, but I know he loves me!” What do you think of this?
7. If Jesus calls her a dog becuase of her race, how is this not racism?
8. why should chirstians today use remarks the you say specifically refer to the epghesisan church at that time to base belifs and policies on?
9. How is telling slaves to not escape, keep their mouths shut, and keep on being slaves NOT suporting Slavery?
10. don’t jews still live under the old covenant? what about them?
11-13. i feel that you have stepped over these questions by over siimplifying them, but
i’ll have to get back to them.
14. I don’t know about Hebrews being harder to demonicaly posses. If Christ was going around casting out demons in Israel, wouldn’t it stand to reason that most of the people he was casting demons out of were Hebrew. Also, as someone who is medicated for epilepsy and Bipolar disorder, i would like to know what worse things could happen to me if i was demon posessed. what i’ve got is really bad!!
as a pentecostal, do you believe that most phenomena is demon or angel driven?
15. in light of your answer,why does the book of 1st Peter depict Jesus, while his body is in the tomb, going to minister to the SOULS in torment?
if the soul is in the brain, and is the “middleman to the soul” as you say, does this mean god makes allowances for people who are mentally disables and cant use their minds to accept Jesus, then transfer this acceptance to the spirit via the soul?
out of time, more later, looking forward to yr answers.
ps have no idea how you founf the TIME lol
peace
Comment by blissamerica — 5 November, 2006 #
It all boils down to the fact that the vast majority of people, since the begining of time, have been morally bankrupt, ignorant of themselves and the needs of others, fearful, spiteful, and gleeful liars. A book written by men about a concept that can never be explained has no other option than to be flawed logically and thus demand the absolute need to “blindly believe”. The Bible is an instruction manual written to find God and His salvation for a bunch of people, at the time, who were dirty, diseased, and brimming with fears brought on by living in a massive world of the unknown. It speaks of fear in a tone of a scolding parent. Hell is the promise for indiscretion. Heaven is for the good boys and girls. I can see that by leading it’s believers to live a life with all focus on getting to Heaven, the bible was attempting to raise up the lowly people of the day and bring meaning to their lives. But also, it has proven to be the template for the ways of controlling the masses and gaining influence through spiritual belief. God is shown to be pretty petty in actions and words pretty much though out the bible. not at all like the omnipotent being he is made out to be. God is shown to be separate from man, even to the point where one’s soul cannot even see the light of God. Which strikes me as odd, considering that we, as well as all things, are made up of God. His will, His Word. His Flesh. Just extensions of the divine. We are divinity incarnate. Yet then we are told we are soiled by evil, which was also created by God. It just makes me sad that as a race that we have nothing really better to do with ourselves than to segregate, degrade and destroy all that we find to be different from ourselves. It is our curse. A doubley tragic one considering that we are all made of the same stuff. God.
Comment by dan — 5 November, 2006 #
Dan, Bravo bravo bravo and of course Amen. LOL
Comment by DJ — 5 November, 2006 #
0- There are different types of speaking in tongues. Im going to keep this brief since i could easily write an entire page on this subject, but basically the unkown tongues are when a person either prays to God directly through their spirit. Their spirit, since it was put their by God, prays God’s perfect will for their life all the time. The tongues alos could have been for interpretation, that is a prophecy that God has given to the church that another in the church will translate to english. This can only be done as the Lord wills. However not all praying in tongues is in another language. Pastors and evangelists have been able to deliver messages to people in their native tongue, when the pastor didnt even know the person’s native language.
1-human sacrifice is extreme, but look at what was gained. the miracle after all was not that jesus died, it was that he was resurrected, thus defeating sin. Somebody’s blood had to be spilled because the wages of sin is death. In christ’s death he paid for all of us.
2-anybody who was not under the covenant at that time went to hell. yes a lot of people went to hell never knowing God. Thats why im thankful i live under the knew covenant.
3-5 I believe that the people persecuting really thought God was on their sides the whole way. Peoples understanding of God’s message of love is depressingly low. As for the genocide of the canaanites, israel was on its journey to the land promised to them by God, the land of milk and honey. when Arad, the king of the canaanites impeded them, Israel vowed to god that they would destroy the canaanites and their cities if god would let them. he did.
6-you raise a good point. i dont quite think im a battered spouse, i have a better covenant now than israel ever had. The reason God sided with his people and left the rest of the world alone was because israel was and still is god’s chosen people. Though God is not a respector of persons, woe to any nation that ever tries to war with israel. The reason why not all were open to salvation before jesus was because not all people were able to be saved. look at the wickedness of sodom and gamorrah. when god sent the great flood and spared only noah, that is because noah was literally the only man on earth not perverse. sin cannot abide in gods site, and if the world was unable to want to stop sinning, they could not be saved.
7-a good point. that could be seen as a racist remark. Jesus did not call her a dog, but only implied that Jesus’ first concern was for the Hebrews, not the gentiles. The new covenant did not take affect until jesus ascended into heaven and gave gifts to men
8- churches have taken a lot of things out of context and built all sorts of wrong doctrine out of them. Certain denominations have interpreted verses differently, resulting in the differences in policy. take the catholic church for example. I do not want to judge or offend any catholics out there, so let me just say that i disagree with their interpretations of certain texts of the bible.
9-The bible does tell bondsmen to endure their masters. I do not know how slavery worked at the time but if it was like slavery was in america, i am sure there were some good masters who treated their slaves well, and some wicked masters. all of these men were held accountable for any wrongful doing they did at any point in their life. the bible says that the slaves were suffering wrongfully, so the master would be held accountable for it.
10- The messiah that the Jews were waiting for appeared. some of them refused to believe it was jesus. they were looking for a man who would make israel the greatest nation on earth. I am not an expert on judaism and the majority of my understanding is on the new testament since that is what i live under. but the bible clearly states the only way to heaven is through jesus, deny jesus and you are denied god.
11-13, the reason why my responses seem simple is because in christianity, the answer is simple. any sin warrants death. to escape this sin you must confess jesus. that is it, there is nothing else to it. for this simple system god can be seen as merciful and just. where a lot of people miss the boat on this is that since they have never commited a “major” offense by today’s standards, they dont feel that they are all that bad and deserve eternal punishment. but in gods eyes all sin is the same.
14-i didnt mean to imply the hebrew people had a super power of sorts, only that since their heart was in teh right place they were less suseptable to corruption. Some of the people probably were of jewish descent, but some were also not. the point i was trying to make was that there were more cases of this happening because the messiah was on the earth and satan knew it and had to stop him. I am genuinely sorry for your condition, and i cannot begin to understand what it must be like for you, but accounts of poossession in the bible include a man being “torn” by a demon as it left him in Mark 1:26. And in mark 5 a demon possessed man lived in tombs. this man could not be held by any chains for many had tried to bind him and he always broke the bonds. This man was in the tombs night and day screaming and cutting himself with stones. When jesus commanded them out he sent them into a herd of swine. the swine bolted off a cliff into the ocean. I do not believe that all disease is caused by a demon. science has already proven germs. However certain conditions, such as cancer, have been seemed to be caused by a demon. As a christian the bible says that jesus bore sickness and pain on the cross. 1peter 2:24 says that by his stripes i was healed. therefore sickness and disease have no dominion over me. I have not been sick sence i came to understand this scripture nearly 5 years ago. there have been some marvelous opportunities for me to be sick, but i excercise my authority of it and command it out of my body and it must obey.
15-i have to apologize to you. body soul and spirit is one area i still do not have the firmest understanding of. it is the spirit that gets us to heaven, but the soul is linked to the spirt, just as it is linked to the flesh. So their souls would be in hell, and it was because they did not have the born again spirit that they were placed there. as for the mentally challenged. as i say in another response, people are initially born innocent and alive in god’s eyes. this is why children are taken in the rapture. but when a child reaches a certain age of development, one where he or she can understand and decide between right and wrong, they lose their innocence and are subject to the law of sin and death. This is when a person must accept jesus to get to heaven. So by this teaching, if a person were born mentally handicapped and their mind never reached a place of true understanding between right and wrong, they would still go to heaven because the age of accountability was never reached. likewise, aborted fetuses go to heaven (i am pro life by the way).
time?well it is the weekend and while i had initially planned to spend the day playing final fantasy xii. I started in on this and just found myself cranking away. I am very happy to see an interest in this and am more than happy to answer any questions you have. keep em coming.
Comment by Matt05 — 5 November, 2006 #
If you want the answers answered correctly, which I am pretty sure you don’t. I would go to a church and talk to the pastor. Take the list. Pastor’s go to school not only to learn the scripture but to learn how to teach and explain it. I honestly think most of your questions are silly and made to goad people into stupid answers.
Answer number one: Jesus had to die to fulfill the God’s demand of a sacrifice. Before Jesus an animal was sacrificed and this paid the price of man’s sin for the year. Cain tried offering fruits and vegatables but God would not accept them. Jesus was the only perfect human to ever live. His sacrifice was perfect. Because it was perfect, it last for all time and all you have to do is accept that sacrifice. If you accept it honestly then you will “ride your rainbow down into magic happy land.”
Please go to a church and meet these hateful people that your are questioning. With a few exceptions, I am sure you will find them nice and open to questioning. I believe that a little part of you wants to believe, otherwise you would not have posted an argument. People who know they are right seldom feel the need to prove it.
Comment by Budd — 5 November, 2006 #
matt05,
0. this seems like a very hard to verify miracle. in the case of unknown tounges, how does anybody know that the message and translation are really related?
i would very much like to see evidence of a modern missionnary speaking a known tongue they had never studied. it was my understanding that missionaries spent years preparing for their chosen field. could you direct me to any information?
1. if the resurection is what beats sin and not the death, then what are the rammifications of the ressurection of lazurus, if any?
2. your answer makes it hard for me to believe that a god who would send people to hell without telling them the rules is a God of Love, or fair, or just.
3-4 so you would say that the persecuters were not true christians, then? I agree with that. My followup question to you is as a chrsitian what percentage of people going to church truly, as you say, understand God’s love? Is understanding God’s love necessary to be saved, or just accepting God’s love?
5. again, a God that would play favorites among his creation is hard to accept as a Fair and Just God. Did God tell the Cannaanites he was giving their land away?
6. see 2 and 5
7. are you saying that people were still going to hell in the 40 days between the accension and the resurection? it seems strange that the miracle of salvation would have a gestation period.
8. you didn’t answer my question at all.
9. are you saying that God is okay with buying and selling people as property?
10. are you saying that all the jews that have died since the time of jesus are in hell, despite being God’s chosen people?
11- 13 sending jesus down to suffer and die seems like a really complicated plan to me. why not just have jesus come down like in Revelations the first time and that would be that!
You should read the last temptation of christ. it wont kill your faith, i promise. the author was a VERY DEVOUT christian. it is a moving depiction of how hellish it might be to be God in Flesh.
i think you’d like it.
14. you haven’t convinced me here. if you leave out the pig story, these folks just sound mentally ill to me.
15. actually i’m really not sure the question is even meaningful, but the ramifiacations are among the most interesting. what i was getting at was, rather than mechanics, was can mental debilitation doom a soul to hell?
you seemed to be saying at first that the spirit is what gets to heaven, but we seem to agree that the soul would reside in heaven or hell in the christian belief system.
your answer also seems to say that if someone’s mind, due to physical reasons, could not discern right from wrong, then God would “understand” and that person would be spared.
would you agree with this?
if yes, then what are the ramifications of the criminally insane?
For example, a paranoid schizophrenic who eventually kills because he is forced to inhabit a frightening reality by his biological disease. Would God forgive their sin of murder?
What if that person believed themself to be the Messiah?
To take to a surreal extreme, could someone like hitler conceivably be in heaven?
if as you say, aborted babies go straight to heaven, isnt abortion the most moral medical procedure because the aborted babies’ souls would be guaranteed to go to heaven rather than hell?
also, what age is the age of accountability you mentioned. Is the age given in the bible?
thanks for the polite discourse. it’s a really welcome change!
Comment by blissamerica — 5 November, 2006 #
The list of questions is choked with sarcasm and appeals toward emotion rather than logic. Nonetheless, they are good questions especially if asked from a truly curious mind (although I get the feeling the mind has a bias to prove).
150 answers that would involve daunting exegetical implications probably won’t happen anytime soon. However, I do recommend perusing something such as the Westminster Catechism. By no means does it cover every question listed here, but you might be surprised at how many it does answer–especially through implications and scripture reference. Also, keep in mind this is a document inspired by a divinely inspired text; thus, not everything is necessarily correct or in accordance with the mind of God. Of that, we know relatively little.
If anyone would like to spark up a personal, conversion-pressure-free dialogue about the above questions, I would be glad to dive into one. Public forums on such matters are too much of a hassle for those compassionately seeking truth and certainty. Email me, tommy_jaundice at yahoo dot com.
Comment by crule — 5 November, 2006 #
Ok, im not going to answer all of these, because you didnt deem it worthy, research is key to an argument. I am not bias in any way, but for starters- in the old testement people sacrificed lambs and other treasured animals as offerings to be cleansed of sins- jesus has been given the title “lamb of god” because he was the ultamate sacrifice, cleasing us of our sins. Murders, yes, like all relegions to date have been envolved with murders and genocide. HOwever, ironicly, Atheists have killed more people than any of the relegions. Look it up. And were u made it obvious that you ahve no idea what ur arguing- when the bible declares the women of the Syrophoenician race, they are refering to a race that jesus was not born of- was was looked down on- the significance is that jesus loved her wiht no care for her race, so he cast the demon from her child- that verse actually supports equality.. try reading and return a post with valed questions you have properly researched for yourself.
Comment by yeah — 5 November, 2006 #
A quick clarifying point (or two) that don’t detract from your questions.
1. Jews don’t beleive in Satan and didn’t absorb any Egyptian gods, Set or otherwise. There is no hell in Judaism nor is there a devil. ‘Satan’ refers to an obstacle in the path of doing the right thing, it does *not* refer to a being or creature. That’s a common misconception held by Christianised Jews and Jews who don’t know jack about their own religion (i.e. reform).
2. Jews don’t believe only Jews go to heaven. In fact, Judaism is one of the very few religions (and only Abrahamic religion) that does not require conversion for you to be ‘let in the gates’. This is why Jews actively discourage conversion – there’s no need. Jew’s in fact have a harder time meeting our 613 commandments, while others only have 7 to live up to. Someone asked the question about people not living under Judaic law going to hell. Non Jews (including Christians) only have to live up to these 7 laws to avoid any such ‘hell’. (They are basically: don’t steal, don’t murder, don’t worship false idols, don’t eat the flesh of living animals, don’t curse G-d (take name in vain, don’t engage in sexual immorarility (beastiality, incest, etc) and finally do set up courts of law). Keep those, and most people do, and you’ll be fine.
3. Not sure why there are repeated references to women being subserviant in Judaism. You’ve got to remember that what you refer to as the ‘Old Testament’ is only a very small part of the story and, without the Talmud, completely impossible to understand. A more complete understanding will help you realise that in Judaism, women are naturally on a higher level than men and therefore do not have as many obligations, requirements and are by and large, considered ‘closer to G-d’. Of course people will respond with questions such as “why do women have to sit seperately from men (during prayer)?” and “why can women not be rabbi’s” or the like, but again, they’re not questions based around understanding, rather misunderstanding. Women *don’t* have to sit seperately from men – men have to sit seperately from Women. Men are considered as not being able to concentrate properly on prayer with women around, where as the women, you will find, are fully able to see the men (who can’t see them). As for women not being rabbis, what the questions refers to is “why can’t women lead prayer?”. The reason is because women are not obligated to be there at all! (Remember, they’re ALREADY on a higher level), so it’s not that they cannot lead the prayer but that the men are obligated to attend and the women are not. The Christian Bible may say the woman is second to the husband (I honestly don’t know what it says) but the Jewish tradition teaches that the woman basically runs the home and is responsible for teaching the children, etc.
4. Why do bad things happen to good people, etc.. I cannot for a minute pretend to know the Christian answer to this, however I know of several Jewish responses. No one of these is considered the only answer. you will find Judaism very rarely imposes a set belief and actively encourages open discourse. a) ‘Sins of the fathers’. This implies not that your Dad did something wrong but that YOU did something wrong in a past life and now you’re making up for it. b) A person who is good may be accepting minor punishment now (such as not being rich) so their transition to an afterlife is smoother and more agreeable. Basically there are dozens of answers to this – google will explain better than me.
5. The ‘Hebrew G-d is venegeful’. Wrong. The Jewish G-d is demonised in a Christian society, where Christians are intentionally taught mistruths is a better way to put this. Such common statements as ‘an eye for an eye’ are great examples of this. It’s well known to any scholar of biblical texts that this DOES NOT refer to literally taking someone’s eye out. It’s very clearly and in quite easy to understand terms refering to financial compensation for causing someone an injury, by accident or neglect, something Americans should be all too familiar with. The amount of money is based on what *you* would value you eye at (if someone lost an eye working for you). It *does not* refer to poking out someone’s eye or starting wars. This is another example where extreme antisemetism on the Christian church saw an opportunity to take a part of a line, from a complete text, out of context and use it to justify their incredibly bad treatment of others.
Q34: “Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.” – Ok, no idea on Romans coz I don’t know the Christian stuff. Basically, the Bible tells you that you shouldn’t be homosexual. Does this mean people who are homosexual should be descriminated against? No, of course not. The bible tells you not to eat pork and not to drive on Saturday but we don’t beat up people who do. The bible uses no stronger language regarding homosexuals than Sabbath breakers. The srong anti-homosexuality component once again comes from societal teachings, not genuinely from the Bible. The Bible slants against homosexuality as it the very first commandment in the Bible is to ‘be fruitful and multiple’.
Anyway, Junanman, I don’t think your questions were all that silly, as people above have stated. You’re entitled to ask them and I’m frankly interested some of the answers, too. I’d answer them all but I really should get some work done.
Comment by Gumbercules — 5 November, 2006 #
Great list junaman!
Also, have a read of “Which is Stronger: Godfluence or Manfluence?
http://stuhasic.wordpress.com/2006/11/04/which-is-stronger-manfluence-or-godfluence
Comment by stuhasic — 5 November, 2006 #
You guys are just taking an opportunity to down-talk the Christianity faith. The very fact that neither has any in depth knowledge about the faith justifies it so. If you don’t believe Christianity, then just forget about it. Why bother get these bible references just to get your point? I mean, the internet too. Ask your Christian friends about it, if you have any.
” Explain why your god’s only son had to die so we can go to magic happy land when we croak. ”
No comment even on this question. Like I said, don’t like the faith, then don’t care about it. You’ll get your answer when you’re on your deathbed.
Comment by Gumbercules — 5 November, 2006 #
I am not relegious but Jesus Christ was a real man and if you think of him as a phylosipher teaching (not preaching) the golden rule maybe you guys could take a look at your self. And lets rip apart your life for fun. Do you think it is better to rip someone apart based on beliefs intead of skin colour its still prejudice, hatred, if you want answers look if your just stirrin up trouble fuck off
Comment by AJ — 5 November, 2006 #
You’ve taken the piss out jesus and the bible – what about mohammed and the koran – or is that taboo?
Comment by peka — 5 November, 2006 #
No, but I’ve never seen a Muslim proselytise to me personally…
Comment by junaman — 5 November, 2006 #
You remind me of one of the comedy sketches of Mitch Headburg. “”At the job interview, the test had these wiered questions that there was no right answer too. Do you like sugar… aaand LSD? yes or no.”"
because you myfriend are so open to contradict every single word that you with no matter what anyone through at you will still toss it down and look at it for a rough face value.
And you my friend are no better than any of what you despise, Religion. With your prosecusion of those in religion, you do the same as Religion did to millions for not believing them.
email me, if you say high i will send you the answers
Comment by Aaron Lapp — 5 November, 2006 #
@stuhasic
Great article and nice blog, I will be blogrolling it
Comment by junaman — 5 November, 2006 #
@Aaron Lapp
Putting some of that into coherent English sentences will help get your point accross…
Comment by junaman — 5 November, 2006 #
First of all Jesus was not a rasisct to answer question 7.
Second of all you didnt finish reading the entire scripture because in verses 29 and 30 Jesus answers her request.
Jesus is not rascist and if you had read the New Testament and Epistles you would know that Jesus was first sent to the Jews and later he used Paul to goto the Gentiles so that both the Jew and the Gentile could come into relationship with God.
Jesus not only helped this woman who was a Greek but, he also helped a Roman Centurian who had a sick servant. Christ said he would come heal the servant and the centurian said you dont have to come but just state he is healed and it will be done.
Christ responds saying in all of Israel or out of all the Jews there is none who have faith like this and Christ said as you have believed it is done unto. The centurians servant was healed that same hour. Christ also explains that many will come from other nations other than Israel and will entire the kingdom where as the children of the kindgom, Israel, will end up in hell because they dont believe. You can find this in Mk 8:5-13. All you have to do is have faith and seek after Christ and he will help anyone.
Next I will address your question concerning Christians who have persecuted people that were not Christian.
First of all show me one place in the Bible where Christ says to go into the all the world preaching the gospel and then kill those that dont accept his truth. If you can do this then you can state that these people where acting in accordance with what Christ taught.
Secondly the Catholic Church is responsible for killing more Christians than any other group on the planet. If you would like a good book about the bloody history of the Catholic Church check out Dave Hunt’s book The Woman Rides the Beast. It is a great book with a ton of referances.
As far as Calvin and Luther go they both started out correct and then decided to trash people with the gospel instead of letting them choose. God does not force himself on anyone, He just puts the choice of life and death before you and you must pick one. Anyone who forces a choice is not acting in a godly way and is in major error.
The last thing I will address is 19 because this is getting rather long.
Adam and Ever messed up and dropped the whole universe into sin. That means every man born because of Adam and Eve’s fall are born into sin and God knew that it was not fair for him to punish people for their mistake so, He made a way for all people to be free. God decided in order to get people free and not punish them for something they didnt do the second person of the Godhead would give up His attributes as God[omnipresence, omniscence, and all knowledge], keeping His title only to live as a man, to take man’s punishment for original sin[on the cross and suffering in hell], raising from the dead so we could be free, and all you have to do to recieve this free gift is accept it. When you say to God I can get in another way you are saying that the sacrifice He made for the entire human race wasnt good enough or correct and you wonder why He might have an issue with that?
You also take the many are called and few are chosen verse out of context. You must take that verse and read it in light of other scripture, this is the way to study the Bible so you do not err. If you study that verse in light of John 3:16-18, 1 John 2:2, Deuteronomy 30:19 you will notice three things. 1. God loved the entire world, not just the elect. God elected all men to salvation by dying for them but, they must choose the free gift he has for them. God cannot force you to take it you must recieve it by freewill.
2. God took the sin of the entire world
3. God gave you a choice between Heaven and Hell, life and death, justification or damnation and that is everyone’s choice to make. To say that God chooses for you is to be in error. God is all knowing and knows the depths of a man’s heart and its motivation. He already knows what choice you are going to make. He knows that the majority of people would rather live their lives in a self destructive cycle istead of letting him drive the car.
You have also asked why does God allow innocent children to die. You are leaving out one side of the equation when it comes to the entire circumstance. In John 10:10 Christ said the thief[satan] comes not but to steal, kill and destroy; I have come that they might have life and it in abundance. You forget that satan can attack the human race. If you do not have a relationship with God then God cannot help you because you have tied his hands. He cannot help those who do not ask for His help. That would be like a person coming into your house without your permission. God is a gentleman and He does not force himself on the human race. You must look at each situation by where people are with God and where their faith is concerning God’s protection. Jesus healed those by the way the believed or were in faith to believe. He did not force them to be any other way than the statement of faith that they made. Do a study on this and you will see it to be true.
I have listened to what you have had to say and read what a lot of other people stated. There are other things I would like to address but, this is long enough. I will give you an analogy to finish off my statement to try to help you understand how God opperates.
You must realise that God tries to stop people from driving over the bridge[in the personal, emotional, and physical lives] that is out by putting signs up to warn people. People tend to look at the sign and ignore it and keep driving. God puts more and more signs up until finally the person kills himself driving over the bridge into the chasm in their personal life. Once the person has driven over the edge, having ignored all the signs, they blame God and say how could you let this happen to me! You like everyone else has a choice. That choice is between life and death and God has given you this choice. Please choose wisely.
Comment by bean — 5 November, 2006 #
As far as the Jews not believing in satan I think someone is misinformed because satan is in Job causing him plenty of issues. The Pharisees even said to Jesus in Matthew 12:24-28 that Christ casts out devils by satan. The Pharisees were the sect of religious Jews who knew the law better than anyone. To say the Jews do not believe in Satan is to be in major error.
Comment by bean — 5 November, 2006 #
Quite simply, I do not have to explain my faith or myself to you.
Comment by AthoughtBefore — 5 November, 2006 #
Bean, I can’t pretend to know what’s in any Christian text but it looks to me like your responses are well thought out and probably fairly accurate.
That said, on the Satan issue, it’s probably not the best to quote Matthew to me because, as a Jew, that text has no meaning to me; any more than a verse from the Quoran would for you.
In Christian belief, Satan is a fallen angel that has freedom of choice and rebels against G-d. Judaism’s view is very different. Isaiah 45:7 and Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13 show that G-d created the temptation to do evil to test our loyalty. That is why the word Satan, which in Hebrew literally means an adversary (Vayikra (Numbers) 22:22) that comes to challenge us. Our mission is to overcome these temptations and do what is correct. The Torah (Bereshis (Genesis) 4:7) teaches that this mission is within our ability to fulfill.
That is to say, there is an “adversary” however to Jews, this adversary is not an independant being, sitting in Hell and plotting against us. It’s the concept of the yatzeh hara (i.e. the inclination to do that which suits us, not that which is holy). Even then, the Yazteh hara is not necessarily bad, sometimes we need to be selfish or we’d never marry, build houses, grow as society, etc.
Don’t just take my word for it, though. Here: http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/web/responsa/r0005.php
None the less, to all above, there’s no need to trash talk other people’s beliefs. I don’t believe in the new testament but I don’t have the slightest problem with other’s believing in it.
Also, there seems to be at least two “Gumbercules” on this forum.. The guy who said “You guys are just taking an opportunity to down-talk the Christianity faith. The very……. Ask your Christian friends about it, if you have any.” – isn’t me.
Comment by Gumbercules — 5 November, 2006 #
@blissamerica
“also, what age is the age of accountability you mentioned. Is the age given in the bible?”
13 for boys, 12 for girls.
The first mention of this in the Bible can be found in Parsha Lech Lecha, Bereshis, where Avraham Avenui enters into Brit Mila at the age of 99 and his first son, Yishmael, is 13.
Also from the Parshas Vayishlach: “And it came to pass on the third day, when they (the people of Shchem) were in pain, that two of Yaakov’s sons, Shimon and Levi, Dinah’s brothers each took his sword (ish charbo) and they came upon the city confidently, and killed every male,” that we learn that a boy from the age of thirteen is obligated to keep the law. Shimon and Levi were at that time thirteen years old and the verse refers to them as “men” so we may learn that a 13 year old (male) is called obligated.
For girls, it’s 12, because as I mentioned above girls are generally more mature and intelligent :-p
Comment by Gumbercules — 5 November, 2006 #
@BlissAmerica
Sorry to answer you in 2 seperate replies.
“Did God tell the Cannaanites he was giving their land away?” – Yes. In fact, they were never to keep it from the beginning.
After the whole incident with the Ark and Noah, etc, one of Noah’s sons, Ham, indecently assaulted his intoxicated father (Noah). In return, Noah cursed Ham (and by association his son, Canaan) to a life of servitude. Through a convoluted series of events, the Canannites came to worship Ba’al (idol worship) and were duely warned of their impending doom.
Comment by Gumbercules — 5 November, 2006 #
Excellent article. I agree 100% with what has been argued here. I do disagree somewhat with *how* its been argued. But seeing as you didn’t write this there’s little point here. Great link though.
One thing though, until I scrolled up to reread the title of the article, I thought it was written by you. While you did link the original article, and state that you didn’t write it, I don’t think you’ve been fair to the author and made it clear that this is not yours – clearly, half the people here do. I don’t mean to rag on you or anything, its obvious you’re not trying to steal this, I just want to make sure credit is given where credit is due. Sticking the authors name in bold, and/or at the end would probably do the trick.
Otherwise, fantastic.
Comment by noobule — 6 November, 2006 #
Can I ask you about Satan in the book of Genesis then? This is the first book in the Old Testament and I am not sure if it is the first book in the tanach? If you could help me with that info I would appreciate it. Satan came into the Garden and tempted Eve who then turns to Adam, who was not decieved, and offers the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. If the Jews do not believe satan or the adversary exists as an individual how do they job 1:6-12? In Isaiah 14:12-16 teaches about Lucifer who is an arch angel who becomes satan when he tries to over throw God on His thrown. What do the Jews teach about Lucifer here? There are more scriptures in the Old Testament the plainly show satan is more than an event. I am just wondering why the Jews teach in this fashion based on the 2 I have given, does this not plainly contradict that view?
Comment by bean — 6 November, 2006 #
btw you would have to read the new testament to see the relation to genesis 3 so, please just answer the job and the isaiah question. Forgive me for adding that when you do not read the NT.
Comment by bean — 6 November, 2006 #
I think a lot of the differences come down to interpretation. Often a translation and interpretation take things in a different direction. In normative Jewish understanding, the serpent from Genesis was just that – a serpent and nothing more.
In the book of Job (which is discussed at several times in the Talmud as mearly being a parable or fable, if you will, to aid in understanding. Other references are more positive he was a real, existing person), we see a discussion between an angel and G-d, where the angel attempts to convice G-d that Job is mearly good because he has it easy. The references to Satan again refer to ‘an accuser’, ‘adversary’ or stumbling block and don’t directly relate the Angel as being *the* Satan. Again, there are issues with translation upon translation here. The role of Satan here is that of, well, a role, not an actual being. So I suppose it’s best explained that the angel acts as *a* satan, i.e. an accuser (which is what the hebrew means), not that Satan is the angel’s name.
Throughout the Torah (5 books of Moshe – Moses) there are references to angels testing men. Angels visit Lot in Sodom and Gemorah (someone mentions above how Lot offers his daughters to protect them.. remember that Lot is not held up as a shining example, rather his line leads to the Moabites). Angels visit and test Avraham, when he sees them passing and offers them food and shelter. Midrashically, angels question G-d giving the bible to men at all and in fact Moses must argue with them, to receive it. These angels are never held up to be “Satan”, although they adopt the same line of arguement as the angel in the Book of Job.
Helel (Lucifer in Christian translations, I think?) in Isaiah 14 is not equated with the Jewish concept of HaSatan (the adversary). Helel is not a personified being, rather the word means “shining one” and refers to the city or location itself. Here, the prophet is simply speaking of the fall of Babylon and along with it the fall of her deities, Helel and Shahar. The interpretation that this refers to a being attempting to overthrow G-d is foreign to Judaism, as G-d is by definition all powerful. The ‘man that made the earth tremble’ refers to the Babylonian monarch and the ‘pit’ literally refers to the grave, i.e. death.
Throughout the Tanakh you can find many instances of the word used to describe human and angelic adversaries to man. There’s a reference in Numbers 22:22 where the satan is seen to be doing a positive act.
There is a view that an angel acting as a ‘prosecuting lawyer’ against mankind can be seen as satan, however even in this event, Judaism does not see this angel as having independent power to act against G-d’s will. In Judaism, mankind alone has the capacity for ‘free-will’ – angels (even fallen ones!) have no capacity for free will, which is the very reason we required our “guidebook” (the bible) to set us straight and the very reason that Moses was able to gain it, even though the angels didn’t want us to have it.
Therefore, when an angel does act as an accuser, it is still in accordance with G-d’s will and does not want victory over his own lord, rather that the tested person succeed.
Makes an amazing study of how different interpretations may be, doesn’t it? I must admit to knowing very little (in depth) about Christianity and basically nothing at all about Islam but I’ve always been fascinated with how different an approach three groups of people can get from the same texts.
Comment by Gumbercules — 6 November, 2006 #
again, i am amazed that this entire thread hasn’t devolved into flaming and mudslinging!
it is very interesting to get so many interpretations and perspectives respectfully discussed in one thread.
really! atheists, agnostics, born agains, and, well i’ll just say “other” (that would be me) having a polite transaction to truly undersand one another!
i am much appreciative of the Jewish perspectives that are now being posted, as i have never really had much of an opportunity to discuss the talmud or OT with someone really studied from the Jewish faith. that alone, to me, makes this whole thread worth it.
I studied the OT from the evangelical perspective when i was formally studying the bible, and it always bothered me that the OT was used just to prop up the NT. I felt like there had to be a lot of nuance I wasn’t getting.
By all means, let’s keep this going!
I don’t see how the questions necessarily preclude Islamic discussion as well. It has been my understanding that the muslim faith does honor jesus as a prophet, and accepts the OT histories as well. tho i could be wrong about that.
Comment by blissamerica — 6 November, 2006 #
i apprecitate you response to the age of accountability question.
your answer seems to be from the talmud, right?
is there any reference to the age of accountability in the books of the OT that the christian faith shares with judaism?
thanks
Comment by blissamerica — 6 November, 2006 #
I am not the biggest believer in christianity, but what this guy says here is complete rubish. I can barely make sense of a few of his points but not really. I really hope that when people read this they didn’t take the stupid pill the author of this bullshit took, or else you will be rowing in the same boat as him. NOT GOOD
Comment by Gravy — 6 November, 2006 #
Junaman’s Reponse to a Quote – “Umm??? W….T….F?
Hahahahahah, you made a funny…
Would you care to clarify how the existence of a god would in any way relate to view that priests have touched me?”
Junaman’s Reponse to “me” – “Really? Who the fuck is your sister? Oh, thirteen independent psychological organisations tested you for many years, and found that you were retarded…
See, just as valid as your “proof”
Churches brainwashing gay people does not give you a good name by the name…”
Junaman’s Respone to Aaron Lapp’s Quote –
“Putting some of that into coherent English sentences will help get your point accross”
Another Question –
“You’ve taken the piss out jesus and the bible – what about mohammed and the koran – or is that taboo?”
Junaman’s Response –
“No, but I’ve never seen a Muslim proselytise to me personally”
Junaman, your only response to anyone answering your questions is to give them back an insult or start swearing at them! Is it our fault that you have no real way to prove what you believe when others do? Do us a favor, quite using immature comebacks to try to defend your “faith” or “non-faith” or whatever you want to call it.
TO DJ
Wow, great argument. Alot in there about pedefiles and stuff, but no real content. Ok, you say there are plenty of REAL theologians (by the way, if hes trying to disprove GOD, hes not a THEOLOGIAN, hes an ATHEIST) that have heared of this guy, name me some. I give proof texts and I have resources for all of my answeres. Where are yours? You just spit out a bunch of YOUR OWN personal views on stuff. You call me stereotypical? How am i? Cause I defend my faith? Most Christians use sentances like “God works in mysterious ways” or “God can’t be proved.” I am able to give you logial and rational reasons to why these questions are based on complete inconsistancies and experience and misconceptions. YOURE the one looking through it with closed eyes, and your the one “passing judgement without hearing the evidence”. If you want to prove that there is no God, and you are going to live a lonely life with no meaning and die a lonely sad old man, then go for it, be my guest. But I have proof enough for me, and I could care less what some immature little boy has to say about priests being gay or me being egocentric or your “insuluts”….WOW my faith is torn apart now by your GENIOUS!!!!
Is that what you wanted to hear? LoL….
Junaman, I am greateful that you put this post up. If anything, it has strengthened my faith seeing how many poeple will stick up and stand up to people like you who think its fun to bash our faith and our purpuose in life. But if you think putting up a post is going to change how I feel about My God, or how other people will feel, your sadly misguided…I don’t expect to convince you of anything, your free to think whatever you want to think. I am not brainwashed, I was NOT christain, then I made a decision ON MY OWN. No one brainwashes ANYONE in Christianity, if they do, it’s not Christianity. Christianity is a personal relationship with God, not a split second choice. Those poeple, who you said get “brainwashed” are the ones who have fallen away from Christianity. They never really got it the first time.
You have your “experience and reason” and I have my faith. Beleive it or not, i trust God more than I trust you, or myself
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
Hmm who to trust, some human, or the one who made humans…
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
Oh please, do some research. Please, please, please actually do some research before submitting to complete ignorance. I read about ten of these, laughing all the way, before I stopped to save my time. If you actually want to know the truth, you need to research on your own time and read the material yourself.
To answer the first “inconsistency,” it’s obvious that we have free will to do what we want. When we commit a crime, there must be justice, and that’s why we have our court system. When Charles Manson ran his cult which led to the killings of many, the US didn’t just let him go; they put him in jail, therefore obtaining some type of justice. However, justice cannot be completely served in our plainly imperfect government. That’s why God also commands justice, and had commanded it (just as we feel it is also necessary) before humans ever developed a court system.
The debt needed to be paid, and that was done by sacrifice. People would sacrifice their animals, especially sheep, in the Old Testament to pay for their sins. They needed their flock, which people usually lived off of, and so this was a great sacrifice. But none was a great enough sacrifice to cover the sins of all human beings, sins which we all know exist (murder, rape . . .) and try to deal with in our own court system. But Christ, all perfect and one with God, was the only one pure and great enough to cover the sins of everyone. So, that is why he voluntarily sacrificed his earthly body to pay for all sins.
God demands justice for sin. Humans are made in the image of God. Therefore, we also demand justice, atheist and Christian alike. Try and understand that. I could go on and write an entire book on this, as many have already been written, but doubt that any of you will take it into consideration until considering the possibility of the Bible’s validity. So please, if you are actually interested, read the Bible yourselves (or professionally written journals regarding many different interpretations of it)and make a well thought out decision.
Religion is serious business, and this article is spreading the religion of atheism, believe it or not. Aren’t you trying to “expose” Christianity and show people that your religion, atheism, is right? If not, why are people spreading this around like the Bible? Why should you care what people believe if you are “outside” of religion? I’m not even going to get into the rest of these. I’ll be here all day. So please, do some actual research and do not accept these pithy and blatantly biased remarks. Common people, “Geocities,” this is ridiculous. Read some professional sources. I attend Cal State Long Beach. You can view my site for some information, if you’d like (www.csulb.edu/~rleack), but I’d suggest looking into some good books on the subject and definitely reading the Bible without any “already drawn” conclusions.
Comment by Sardonica — 6 November, 2006 #
There are a couple of arguments here:
1. If God came to reveal would you actually believe it?
2. The good old atheist argument of you have to believe a God is there to not believe in God. You have to admit that there is something to believe in; to not believe.
3. That the people that posted this didn’t have a rough up bringing so that you lost all belief and then found God and it pulled you through all the tough times. So it upsets me what is said here on this post.
Comment by Billy — 6 November, 2006 #
Bible + Humans = self help book!!
I hate the fact that so many people find god in prison during the time they serve for their secong strike too. But hey, they’re saved. Right?
Comment by big daddy k — 6 November, 2006 #
DJ,
I wasn’t going to post about mithra, Krishna, or the others. The only other “dying” god i know much about it the welsh/druid god “hesus”, but then the druids left no scripture.
btw mithra, the zorastrian crucified god exists historically maybe 1200BC. He too was said to be born on Dec. 25th of a virgin. What’s interesting is that the Zorastrians begat the magi. the same magi who “followed the star” to bethlehem in the gospels’ christmas narrative.
it’s a shame its so off topic, a full blown, intelligent, respectful comparitive religion discourse would be something indeed.
maybe worth a new thread?
one of the reasons i like this thread is now there are multiple faiths posting here, not just evangelical vs. atheists. anybody have any mithraic scriptures or something from the Veda’s they think would shed light on the bible?
Comment by blissamerica — 6 November, 2006 #
Although there are answers to all of these questions (and don’t fool yourself – Christians have been asked these questions for hundreds of years, you are by no means the first), it would take a much more in depth conversation to explain to someone who has already closed their heart and ears. (Even though I’m assuming you consider yourself ‘open-minded.’)
Being Christian is not about having all the answers. It’s about having faith in spite of it.
FYI – do a little digging about the archaeological proof science is consistently finding which verifies the claims made in the Bible. Do a little research on premillennialist eschatology and how it pertains to the world at hand. The end might just be closer than you think.
(Oh – one last point. I don’t actually expect you to do any of this, because let’s face it, that would take some ‘open-mindedness,’ but you should at least honestly consider it.)
Comment by Mike — 6 November, 2006 #
Excellent post, I laughed my ass off at #92. Anyways, I’m not really sure of any higher power, however, I do firmly believe that if there is any higher power, that is does NOT reside in the Bible. The bible simply cannot be followed, anyone who claims it is the word of God is sorely mistaken. The Bible has been twisted and twisted throughout generations to better suit the ruler of the time, and as you said, with the King James bible, it has been romanticized greatly. The Bible is a collection of works from many people, none of whom had much say in it, and their stories were handpicked to suit a general image.
I believe that any faith must be found through yourself of those closest to you, right and wrong are your own decisions, not others. To be truly righteous, you must put aside all prejudices and outside opinions and follow your own thoughts. As long as you do what you believe is truly right, then that is your faith. While some things should generally be ruled out (Killing, taking advantage of others, whatever) it is still your choice in what is right and wrong and how you can be a good person.
Lastly, I believe, that through respect for creation, being a good person, and standing up for your beliefs, a righteous God should not deny you, as he knows undoubtedly more than any of us (if he exists) and would obviously see all of these twists in popular faith……….
………..Wow I typed to much.
Comment by Kajer24 — 6 November, 2006 #
An excellent post.
Personally, I believe that assaulting religion with this sort of ordered effort implies a level of ideological significance that religion doesn’t actually have.
It’s really this simple: If you believe that a giant invisible man in the sky- or wherever- loves you very much so long as you live a certain way, and that he’ll welcome you into a big ole’ happy land when you die, then you’re a lunatic.
The only time religious people merit the great honour of atheistic attention is when we’re pwning them for trying to force their perverse ethical position into the law.
Well, in England we pwn them. In America with Christianity and the middle east with Islam (which is the most viscious, primitive faith still going), the filthy rabble is just too fat to be shifted.
~ Crispy
Comment by Crispy — 6 November, 2006 #
Superb post. The sad thing is, those that rush to defend their dusty book of lies and fairy stories (yeah, the Bible) do so out of impulse. They do not seek to rebut hypotheses in an objective, impartial fashion. Religious faith by its very nature (accepting wild notions without proof) means they never can!
“Religion? The notion that there must be, simply because one cannot even CONCIEVE that there is not.”
There must be something, it wouldnt be nice if there wasnt…boo hoo hoo… keep “preying” christian…
“DIEU EST MORT”
Comment by DieuEstMort — 6 November, 2006 #
hahahaha this is funny, and i defiantely agree with it!
Comment by Shane — 6 November, 2006 #
wow… this is almost done for you, most of these quotes in these questions are just takin out of context bc people arnt readin the rest of the verse..try that, thatll answer half the questions up there. What? everyone on here is like 20-40? Im 18 only been saved 3 years and half these questions are easy as butter to me. The First one… hmm why did jesus have to die? Bc we cant get to heaven with an unpayed tab. Sin…for example is like your meal at a restaurant, you cant leave a restaurant without paying? Technically jesus payed your bill, bc you cant get out of the restaurant(earth) without paying your bill(sin), when you pay you can leave(Heaven gogo). Oh this one made me giggle. How can i be happy if im in heaven when loved ones are in hell. Welp this is pretty straight forward first off good game, they must not be very loved if you got to heaven without sharing it with them (jerk). Second, you wont be happy, youll be ashamed of yourself, at the gates before you enter heaven, your shown all the chances you had to witness to other people. Which takes me to “ZOMG STOP PUSHING RELIGION ON US” Hmm we find a way to get to heaven and you guys would rather be left alone. Its in our religion to witness (not force religion on people, some people just do it wrong, sry were not quite perfect), which is telling other people how good god has been to you. You dont have to be christian to understand this, every day you wake up, have you ever though that you might wake up with no oxygen in your lungs? The sun might not be shinning? Do you have control over that, nope. We want to witness bc, when you dodge all the corrupt churches (they exist zomg) and you actually just get a small bit of jesus in your soul, its the best feeling you could ever imagine, words could not even begin to describe. Like, if you like a movie or a book, you dont just hide it and bottle it up, you tell your friends and family (hence witnessing not shoving “religion” down your throat, whoever witnessed to you guys did it wrong) One quote in here that I read litteraly 10 minutes ago was the one about jesus being rascist “7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.” If you read that, it doesnt even hint that. The only remotly possible way you could even think about wanting to get that would be if you read this verse with peanut butter in your eyes, this verse is about Jesus exorcising a demon, if being nice is rascist then good lord…what are we here for? “Why are we sent to hell? Omg!!111 im a gewd person I help granny thopmson cross the street every week and I dont stabz people? Why am I still goin to hell?” Well timmy, that goes back to the restaurant debt, you go to hell bc you didnt pay your sin debt, your born with sin period. And for the rest of your life it is predetermined that you will all meet the people you all hate so much “Religious people”. The idea is that someone at sometime, is going to witnesss to you, its almost unaavoidable. Its not technically our job to save you as humans cuz we cant do crap, our role is to plant the seed, so god will deal with your heart, we only plant seeds. People cant go to heaven by gewd deeds, no matter what you do, no exceptions its easy. “But then Why do you see so called ‘Christians’ sinning too? Arnt you guys all spoz to be perfect?” No, were still all human, only difference is, once your saved, you can repent for your sins bc God knows your gunna mess up. Last thing people dont seem to like, why do christians bash other religions, well its easy timmy, bc this goes back to the “Feeling” i wrote earlier. How do you know your in love? A so called feeling. I know im saved bc people can lie about anything but i cant lie to myself about what i felt 3 years ago in a small little trailer. When jesus moves into your heart, its amazing. And you dont have to dress up and be perfect and look nice and quote stuff to be christian, you truely get saved and you WANT TO. BAM!Thats how i know that other religions dont work, bc I didnt get a feeling from them, and people I meet definitly dont have a feeling from it either. Welp I just typed all that with a busted space bar, have fun guys, feel free to bash the stupid little christian kid. Stay classy shoutwire…
-Veritas(Truth)
Comment by Veritas — 6 November, 2006 #
Don’t talk about something you know nothign about. Literal minds think literally, you are asking question to which the answer lives right in the question you ask. Fools think foolishly, I admit it is diffuclt to see past the grey, you either choose to see the white or the black. Now I will not anser any of these questions as why should I, however, I will explain how you have this wrong, you are reading using human intuation/reality. DON’T TAKE IT SO LLITERALLY. God uses a language that we arn’t a custom to. The bible is a book/guid, to help get one on the path. As you can see, it can be bother helpful, and as a weapon as U demonstarted. however, here I will try and freeing your mind from thinking so foolishly.
1: When you see the 10 commadments, you read as, man I can’t do this or that or blah blah, rules rules. Now look at it this way, the bible is there for a guide to free your mind. It is showing you that because of your sin you see it that way. Therefore so many christians think, oh I have to not do any of those things to inherit the kingdom. However, I say this, if you act like someone your not, you are deceing yourself. In truth, there is only one commandment, you won’t hear anyone annouce it in church but it is there, right in the bible and no one can see it hardley, they read right on past saying oh yeah, well isn’t that obvious.
2. Last example how sin blocks you mind from seeing things correctly. Take the story about god opening the red sea. You people take it so literally, it has nothing to do with the story it self, the sotry is to show you one thing. GOD WILL GIVE YOU A NEW PATH/LIFE/HELP YOU ALONG THE WAY, if you trust in him. God doesn’t do miracles like that, thats not how he works, he will do miraculus things, but just because you trust god and bad guys are after you and shooting guns, doesn’t mean hes going to stop the bullets, if he wants he will but don’t take it so literally.
3. Actually, I’ll leave you with another, the book a JOB. Oh so many bad thigns happened to Job. Why?? It says he was a god fearing man, a blamless man, why woudl god do this. Well, once again you people take it literally when you shouldn’t. ITS A STORY, A GUIDE, Inspired by the Holy Spirit. K, heres what the whole book of JOB means, DON’T lose fear of God. Fear God. Thats it. Now you may ask, well he was a god fearing man, why would god say that. Well look at it this way. You father says, leave me that cup of Orange juice full till I get back, you say O.K. But you get thirsty so you drink some. He never said you can’t drink, all he asked is for you to keep it full. Theres a difference. tHE BOOK OF Job basically says what you are scared, I am scary if you don’t beleive in me. BELEIVE in me and I will take those fears away. Then you see the typical human reaction when you read the end, oh a happy ending, oh yes, Job got a new Family, Fools think that way. It doesn’t mean he started from scratch got a new wife and mafde a bunch of babies. It means he got a new life, a new outlook on life. Leaving you town and going to another and meeting a new group of friends can be your famly. So many people think, oh my dad died, I don’t know ehre he is. you know what, everyone thinks, when i DIE I’ll see that person agian and make amends or pick/catch up where we left off. YOU HAVE TO LET GO OF THAT OLD PERSON, they are fine, its to hard to exaplin but they are, godd will give a new person like that person, 1 to take away your pain, 2 to let go and move on, god wants to make things better, not worst. Just open your heart and mind and trust him.
There you have it, now you can laugh and mock me. However, theres a difference between thining and knowing, this is knowing and truth. Jesus once said, none beleivers wouldn’t beleive ifi the dead could be risen even if the dead were standing in front of them. You fools, someone you lost may be around you all the time. Maybe not saying your name or say, hey dude, remember that time we got smashed up drunk, fools, open your eyes, your loved ones are all around you. Take heart, god bless and peace out bros.
We can’t imagine god saying peace bros. but guess what he just did.
Comment by Nat — 6 November, 2006 #
I want to pose a question – from a rationalist point of view, how can people say that God is dead when (apparently) 85% of America is Christian? I wish I knew the stats of all Christians over time, I would imagine it is in the billions….
A question to you “open-minded” atheists out there: were all these people hoodwinked? Brainwashed? Confused? Hypnotized? Misled? Fooled?
Isn’t it funny how the Bible talks numerous times about how God CHOOSES to blind the hearts of man so that they don’t believe in Him! How is it that some of the brightest minds in the world were Christians (Nicholas Copernicus, Galileo Galilei, Isaac Newton, William Thomson Kelvin, Albert Einstein)….do you expect me to beleive that someone “brainwashed” them? That they were tricked or fooled???
These men were SCIENTISTS! Not only like your famous “atheists” you quote, but these men studied science as well as being Christian, or believing in God.
Face it, Christianity is growing, and it’s because God is moving. I liked the statement before that said “To not believe in something, you have to admit that there is something to believe”.
God stares us in the face every single day. People use faith every single day, when they breathe they use faith that the next breath wont kill them; that the next step wont send the earth under them crashing into an abyss; that their heart wont mysteriously blow up in their chest.
I’m not saying all Christians are perfect, great people. Obviously people here have had some terrible experiences with Christians, and sure I understand your skepticism…but I have had some terrible experiences with “atheists” and I could automatically brand them as “bla bla bla bla bla” like most of you do to Christians, but the one thing that TRUE Christians have that most non-christians dont is LOVE. Our task is to LOVE others, not to always be hating on others and brining them down…even if there was no God, which is an absurd thought to about 90% of the planet, why would you want to spend your life filled with hating people, sex, drugs, alcohol, material things….where is the satisfaction? You want to know why Christianity works on a practical level? Because the feeling doesn’t fade like drugs or alcohol or sex…those things are “fixes” or temporary sedatives. They don’t fix your problems or make you a better person or make you happier…hmmm i dont recal having herpies (or having alcohol poinsing or a hangover, or tripping out, or getting punched in the face) on the top of anyones “fun things that satistfy me” list…perhaps the love and peace and joy from christianity lasts because MAYBE there is something more to it????
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
WEll I have read most of the comments. I am what you would describe as an evangelical Christian. I guess after Reading these posts however, i feel an overwhelming obligation to apoligize. Apoligize for the corruption and the hypocricy, the lust for power, the narrow mindeness,for conversion by the blade, for wiping out Native poeples to establish america…I guess i could go on and on. And i must admit through our Christian Lineage there have been many that have done or been these things or worse.
All i can say is that I truely can’t and never want to identify with that brand of Christianity. I want to live and try to identify as much as possible with the teachings of Christ.
Teachings that would move me to create the first hospitals and the red cross that love and care for the wounded no matter what Nationality they were,the kind of teachings that would go to the poorest parts of the earth such as India,Pakistan etc.. and create orphaniges and complexes to feed the poor and cloth the naked and educate those society has brought a distaste for, Teachings that would move me to house victims from Hurricane Katrina in a church not only to help them with things the govt was to slow to do but also to help them rebuild even to this very day….I guess the point i am trying to make is that there are many things that i really do feel ashamed of in my Christian History….but also there are things that i am really proud of ….I want to identify and live my life according to that type of christianity! You know i also believe there are plenty of people that certainly would’nt identify themselves as christians, but still carry those types of actions out on a day to day basis…imo they are more christian than many who call themselves christians.
Comment by thoughmocker — 6 November, 2006 #
36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain in the ass because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.
Actually there are plenty of other sources from outside the Gospels that mention Jesus, like Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, and Tacitus.
……try again…..
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
*****36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain in the ass because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.*****
AS WELL, look on wikipedia, even IT talks about the earliest peice of Gospel (which is innacurate because there was one before that) which was found between 90 and 130 A.D. I beleive….
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
Regarding #12: The bible never once says that anyone is going to experience eternal, unbearable torture in Hell. It teaches that the unsaved will be destroyed. Regarding the examples provided:
2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 says that those who don’t know god will be “punished with everlasting destruction.” So they will be destroyed and their destruction will last forever.
The other example, Revelation 20:15 says that they will be “thrown into the lake of fire” but nothing about eternal conscious torture. Fire burns and destroys.
As it says elsewhere, the wages of sin is “death”.
Hey look under 100 words. chasinwind@yahoo.com
Comment by Zoot — 6 November, 2006 #
ROb,
Since when is Christianity growing?
Most of the pre-modern world became christian because either 1) it was forced by a governing power, 2) joining the faith gave you societal acceptance and security, 3) People needed something to believe in and Christianity back then was in no way close to being disproven… but in todays world things are changing and people are opening their eyes and mind. And your rambles of Newton, Einstein, Galileo..etc being Christians-I don’t buy it. We weren’t there, only images and books tell us; their was no 1/2 church and 1/2 state back then like it is now, but coverups and conspericies were, as there are now. Guess who had the first content edits before print… Well guess what, in 500 years publications might say that Steven Hawkings was a proud Christian. Remeber that money and power can do anything, and we all know that Church has way too much of both.
Comment by fattmarrell — 6 November, 2006 #
Check your stats dude, in the Eastern world Christianity is growing exponentially due to Missions in places like Africa, in China and Asia…As well, in America were Christianity is 85% as people keep quoting…And actually Stephen Hawkings writings overlap with Christian belief…but I assume you know this cause you obviously read him….right? I mean you wouldn’t possibly make that sort of assumption without reading him, would you?
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
Once again, someone tries to relay their belief’s like fact and get owned by the fact that someone else does their research
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
But is he Christian?
Didn’t think so
Comment by fattmarrell — 6 November, 2006 #
Oh and please tell me how to read a human
Comment by fattmarrell — 6 November, 2006 #
LOL AND “fatmarrell”, aare you suggesting that it was “socially acceptable” to be Christian in the pre-modern world?? Are you insane! Christians have been persecuted and still are since Jesus HIMSELF walked to earth…wow what a bunch of experiential, emotion driven, misguided information…
Comment by ROb — 6 November, 2006 #
Um, yes. From 500 till today it is “socially acceptable” to be a Christian in Western countries. Prior to, say, 1960 you could say it was “the norm” in fact one could easily say it is still the norm today in the West.
Comment by Zoot — 6 November, 2006 #
yay!! my first post on a shoutwired website!!
note*: i barely read any of the previous posts. plz do excuse anything i say that repeats any of the above.
about the questiosn up dere bout how past christians use to capture and kill torture, and so on to non-christians, christianity now and back then are almost a completely different religion. u cannot jus asume that jus because past christians use to kill non believers means dat current christians are gonna kill nonbelievers. jus becuz someone who *claims* to b a christian does not mean that they neccessarily are. and as an example. jus becuz a muslim takes his own life and a few others DOS NOT mean dat all muslims will do da same. its jus completely ignorant for one to asume that all that all christians are the same. please do not assume all christian societies are the same. altho our religion is labeled as the same, we arent.
oh! jus wanted to state my own opinion about the old testement(before jesus died). when reading the old testement, please be cautious as to what u think it means. the old testement is simply a record of wrong things done by ppl so that we could learn from previous mistakes done by others.
(im jus reading the entire thingy up dere as nd tpying more and more)XD
what jesus said are not set rules that if broken, we r codenmed to hell. no its not like that. they r simply just guide lines as to wat it means to b a good christian.
Comment by guest01 — 6 November, 2006 #
a common question asked by many non christians is dat, why r there so many hippocryte christians.
well, if i took ur COAT,and wore a WIG to look like u, nd i went to the mall and ran into superstore and grabbed a handful of stuff and took off. and as the employees chased me they stopped and said, lets stop chasing him, i got a good look at him. lets jus report him to the police. next day police go to ur house and tell u that someone fitting ur discription was seen at the superstore yesterday shoplifting.
wat would u say then??
there are alot of ppl wearing “*christian*” coats and wigs out there. kno that there r some who claim to b christians but who really arent.
and just concerning this entire topic, most of this stuff is really hard to discuss if u dont kno ur facts bout the bible. infact, most of this stuff is stuff that you should b discussing with a pastor or a church leader in fellowship or sunday school
Comment by guest01 — 6 November, 2006 #
Forget all the quotes, the questions, the biblical litrature and the fanaticals. Religion of any faith is for those with low self esteem and those who feel that life has left them behind. It must be great to blame someone or something that can never be proven for the choices they make in life, “the bible told me so”, “god made me do it” and so on.
Religions of any denomination are primarily a business and as such are selling a product- in their case it is a simple product, pay to beleive in what we are telling you or rott in hell. the mere fact that you dont get what you pay for until you die is a brilliant marketing ploy (and it saves on warranty claims).Imagine if the Ford Motor company used that sale pitch for their cars “buy the new model now or spend your after life in fires of hell”.
As for the ten comandments look at them and the ask yourself if we didnt follow those rules ( or atleast some of them) through our own choice not some bible basher telling us to the human race could not survive. To me the comandments where probably written by someone after a night on the turps and feeling guilty about the three chicks he shagged 1 of which lied about her age, the fact that he had put on some weight over the past three months and so on.
please read this or god will shit on you from great a hight.
p.s. if i am wrong and meet god in the after life then i will aplogise and ask him how old the angle is on his right side and wether or not her freind will do me as well
Comment by goldenmanwhore — 6 November, 2006 #
You’re questions are all easily answered using answers derived from their beliefs. I have studied many different religions including Christianity and many of its forms. If you read through the bible you will find all the answers to the questions you have asked. Also a real understanding of history would drastically help you. I do not want to spend my time and effort answering all of your questions. Mainly because I am lazy, but also because I really don’t care. I also do not believe in this faith or any other. I have seen many much more compelling and convincing arguments against Christianity than this list of questions of yours(which is juvenile rubbish and is quite frankly downright laughable). I also find it amusing that you are even arguing against Christianity in the first place. What do you care? Do you find them annoying? Grow up, the world is full of annoying people both Christian and not (like yourself for instance). Let them believe what they want to believe, it is their right. So what if you believe they are wrong. Does it matter if they are wrong if it makes them happy? How do you know they ARE wrong? Are you some universal repository for all knowledge? While I personally do not share their religion, I cannot say beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is absolutely no way their religion could be true. I am not conceited or naive enough to believe that I have all the answers. So let them believe in what they want and you do the same.
Comment by required,eh... — 6 November, 2006 #
There ya go. Someone who understands. Any religion is laughable. But to try and convert people or say that their religion is wrong is insensitive.
Comment by Bing — 6 November, 2006 #
ROb you seem to have a lot of misconceptions, and I think that is part of the reason that people begin to question religious beliefs. How can you say that 85% of a country are persecuted? How in the world can an overwhelming majority be persecuted? You are WRONG! When was the last time you or anyone you know were truly persecuted for your beliefs? I’m willing to bet you were never threatened with death, jail, beatings, or the taking of your home. I bet you were never held in a concentration camp or marched through the deserts and jungles to work as slave labour, so learn what the word means before you insult people that have been persecuted.
[b] Actually there are plenty of other sources from outside the Gospels that mention Jesus, like Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Suetonius, and Tacitus.[/b]
Bull. Josephus’ letters were proven to be fake. [b] Pliny the Younger, a Roman official, was born in 62 C.E. His letter about the Christians only shows that he got his information from Christian believers themselves. Regardless, his birthday puts him out of the range of eyewitness accounts.
Tacitus, the Roman historian was born in 64 C.E., well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a “Christus” in his Annals, Book XV, Sec. 44. However, he gives no source for his material. Although there are many disputes as to the authenticity of Tacitus’ mention of Jesus, the very fact that he was born after Jesus can only provide us with hearsay accounts.
Suetonius, a Roman historian, born in 69 C.E. who mentions a “Chrestus” a common name. Apologists assume that “Chrestus” means “Christ.” But even if Seutonius had used “Christ,” it still says nothing about an earthly Jesus. Just like all the others, Suetonius was born after the purported Jesus. Again, only hearsay.(http://www.atheists.org/christianity/didjesusexist.html)
[/b]
Wrong, wronger, and wrongerest.
And why does everyone think that atheists are angry and hateful? Reading over these posts today by supposed christians certainly contridicts that. I’m a proud atheist and the only thing I hate is the misinformation being spread amongst these posts. Some christians will fight at the drop of a hat when all someone is doing is asking questions. Religion has ceased to piss me off, but obviously the hate and intolerance is still alive and well within it’s community.
Comment by Redhunter — 6 November, 2006 #
Hi
I am a Christian, and well to be honest, don’t judge a faith by incorrect or man made ruels and religions.
Also don’t judge by misinterpretting or taking thigs out of context.
The questions if put to a jew or Muslim would have you treated as a anti-semite, which could still be the case as the Old testament is followed by jewish people too, and any attack on Muslims would immediately find you with a fatwa and immediate threats of death upon you.
The fact you can write so much trash emans you have a problem not the Christians, and well get a life, and instead of asking so many questions just relaise that the world as it is, a secular ungodly world seems to not be a very nice one. This is one you are complaining bout and one which you should not seek to blame on God for. God gave man a choice to do as he pleased and if that choice means one can murder another, or make wars or let the world become unreligious and run amock, well so be it. Of course as all things there will be a price to pay, but God doesn’t ’send’ peopel to hell…..we are already a fallen race and we need to accept salvation which is on a plate for us…..so amidst all your whinging, the answer is easy and simple, and with this acceptance, you will be lifted from the fallen nature and heaven is a possibility provided you don’t do evil and go around doing stuff which means you won’t merit heaven….but yes, we all need to accpet salvation, or else we are already by default going to hell. It’s your choice dude, you don’t have to take it, and don’t have to have a problem with Christians who do…..you seemingly angry attitude seems to make no sense….you have a choice, so I don’t see why it bothers you. I wonder why people bash christians and not Muslims and Jews, probably as I said, people don’t wanna be called anti-semites or get beheaded by some Muslims who force people to convert…..but you know, as I say if you have a problem and do want to accept salvation, but something is holding you back, then it’s your conscience or the way you live which conflicts and is nagging away at your subconsious.
Who knows, maybe you want to live a Christian life, and feel free and want heaven, but your porn collection you may have and cannot get rid of, is an obstacle you will need to delete, and so you cna’t get rid of it, and yet want to, so you either do it and change or you hold onto it and the sinful behaviour, and sleeping about etc, and so then know you can’t be true to yourself and so avoid becoming a Christian…..and so then get all fruistrated as deep down you know you want to be but can’t do away with the sin, and it naggs and eats away at you…..well then if you don’t change you end up trying to do away with that nagging conscience, and the way most people do this is to convince themselves God won’t exist, as people like you ‘know better’ so if you think your porn collection (or sleeping about, or immoraltiy , criminal acts etc whatever behaviour you do which holds you back) is something you won’t give up, you will justify it, and if you think it’s ok, then you will not agree with God, and so will think he must be wrong and so if he is wrong you will think he cannot exist if he doesn’t think like you, and also if you can say he can’t exist and doesn’t, then you can say whatever you do isn’t immoral because you don’t believe in God or religion etc, and so you feel free in doing anything without question since you have now decided to ‘do away with’ God. Then to do this you must ‘prove’ to yourself he doesn#t exist and so keep looking for arguments to appease your conscience and make you feel lik all you do is ok, and nothing can amke you feel otherwise…..doing away with God gets rid of your conscience and feelings of guilt and you then feel ‘free’…..but to get rid of God entirely you also have to then get angry with those who remind you of the posssibility of God’s existence and a better way of life. You think this and search to ask them such questions as posted above….you seek to want to make everybody disbelieve and to try and convince them he surely can’t be real….because subconsciously in some way it still naggs at you, and still a part of you believes and is reminded of this belief when you are reminded by Christians and arguments for the existence of God, or by the pure lifestyle offered by religious life….this naggas at you and threatens your false ‘peace of mind’ and so you get angry and attack God, even though you thought you convinced yourself he didn’t exist, and attack Christians for doing their own thing…
All the while you act like a facist, and then claim Christians are facist, when in reality you do what you want, and still do, but have a problem with others doing so. You see you want a Christian to answer all the above questions in order so you hope you can eb right and put God to rest once and for all so you can get on with your lifestyle without any more conscience nagging….problem is even if we explain all the questions and show you are wrong, or you manage to take your anger out on some uneducated Christian who isn’t aware of the answers since they might not be as well read, this only serves to satisfay your anger, but in reality those questions you know all have answers and are out there and can be well explained by me and others who if we care dto would sit througha nd watse a week explaining to you.
But we won’t as you wouldn’t accept any answer we gave, as you are really asking you own subconsious these questions, these are the questions you fear which if answered will shake you, so you put them up to redicule these qustions hoping that if nobody answrs or you can ‘defend’ your outlook, they might give your conscience some peace of mind….but they won’t, as you know you are asking yourself these questions and they won’t ever go away. I need not answer them as you know the true answers to them but want them to not be the case.
Trust me, I was a real bad dude once, and sill had loads of porn and vices and did tons of bad ba stuff and rebelled…I thought like you, and kept getting angry with Christians who reminded me of a life I wanted but felt I couldn’t have or was at conflict with the sins I couldn’t let go with and shocked me but I seemed to far gone to change and stop, and which I liked…I tried to think I was free, but I created a prison of guilt and emotional deadness and hated myself and my life anc career and everything fell in. Wghen I stopped blaming others, and God and gave up porn, and immorality and ego and i realised my behaviour ruined my life, I felt a warmth creep abck, and my energy and life came back and it was like a miracle, but it was a fight and i had to do what was right and did it. It was hard but when you want to be honest and change, then God will be there , if not, he can’t make you change….you need that, and if you want and can’t let go of your past and current stuff which holds you back, then you don’t want to change enough….you need to really want it bad, and you will travel as low as it takes to want to need to change.
Stop kidding yourself, as I spnt 10 years doing this and I regret it now as my career is in tatters and i can get back to stuff, but it was all wasted time. Jesus will forgie if you are truly sorry, and then what is passed is passed, and you must look forwards not back. Holding onto regret and bitterness and sin will waste more lie and time. Swallow your pride and you will be starting the road to getting back to where you should be right now.
Trust me, nobody could have been as bad as me, and thinking of my past life i ‘loved’ it makes me sick and makes me want to cry, but it’s all over, and thank God I am back.
Trust me….you don’t have to be as bad as I was to be in denial.
make a change, as the world you have and we have is created by us. The proof is around us. If you are not happy blame yourself, not God, as he gave us choice.
God bless you brother…..hope you find your way.
Ask God to show you, just do that, pray that if he does indeed exist, to show you the way to accept and to find him and to help change you, invite him in, and you will see…..if not, then do it your way dude, but you won’t have anyone else to blame.
Jimmy
Comment by Jimmy Jones — 6 November, 2006 #
What I dont understand is, if you dont like christianity so much, which you obviously dont, why bother to write 150 repetitive questions about it, surely thats just a waste of your time, im glad you have opinions but why not save it for your trips to the local McDonalds where you work and recite your worthless questions to people who really couldnt care less about you or your worthless points of view. Maybe someday you will get promoted from fries-boy until that day continue to sit in your parents basement in darkness questioning other such pointless things maybe the fact that theres a direct correlation between the rise in computer games and youth violence no doubt you could another 150 questions on that. Yeah I dont believe in Christianity but doesnt stop others from believing in it and I wont question their faith its their own personal choice, so this has filled nicely the time before sex with my amazingly hot girlfriend, dont worry your big boy hair will come in soon! Oh what I told everyone your secret OH NO!
Feel free to reply
Comment by A. Roche — 6 November, 2006 #
I believe that all who have died even upto the present day are sleeping (dreaming)they have no body to return to, no one will enter heaven till the lords work is completed That will be when the day of jugdement arrives,All of us even the evil will be given new bodies that will last forever and not be distroyed,you can’t enter heven without one and you can’t go to hell for eternal damnation without one,How can you burn forever with a body that can be distroyed.God is true to his word,He always has been and always will be.the only way to be saved from “hell” is by the Lords grace.This life is Gods sorting box, that’s why we have free will to choose and do as we like.Jesus came to show us the way and to pay our fare.Not only that but if we choose to follow the Lord he will cleanse us and prepare us to live a full and blisfull life in heaven with God for ever.
Comment by phight — 6 November, 2006 #
this is a message to the poster above me,
A. Roche.
Don’t judge JUNAMAN like that.
you probably don’t have a girlfriend anyway, and conserve your energy, as your body is like a car, don’t burn out and in anycase sex before marriage is immoral. You should love your girlfriend if you have one, and not talk of her to the public like a piece of meat…love not lust, and well, she would tell you to take a hike if she found out what you wrote. be decent and polite please
best regards
Comment by Jimmy Jones — 6 November, 2006 #
Phight
too true, too true.
Comment by Jimmy Jones — 6 November, 2006 #
Phight,
can I be saved, I have changed but still feel bad for the wasted bad years of mine.
I don’t feel touched by God, but have changed.
do I need more change ?
Comment by Jimmy Jones — 6 November, 2006 #
“76. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.
CONTEXT BUDDY CONTEXT!!!!!!
Thats the way things were in that day!!!!!
AND that’s what God at the time demanded of them because Jesus hadn’t come. When Jesus came, he took away the need to sacrifice animals because He took the place of every animal…”
*
*
*
Actually, sacrifices stopped when the Temple was destroyed. 70 years after Jesus died, the Romans sacked the Temple, so sacrifices continued a good 70 years after he died.
Additionally this was the second Temple period. After the destruction of the first Temple, while there was no second Temple – again no sacrifices.
Comment by Gumbercules — 7 November, 2006 #
interesting questions. it would take a long time to write a satisfactory answer to them all, but i’ll attempt to answer them all, as we are to ‘give a reason for hope’ that we have (1 Peter 3;15).
i will start by stating that God is God, and as such does not need to explain His actions. He created the world and has absolute rights to do whatever He sees fit. He can not be put on trial. (read Job 38-42 for Gods own words on this) ‘Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him?’ (Job 40;2)
1: this is
2: quite simply, no. the Bible teaches that salvation is through faith in Jesus (1 Peter 1;9, Acts 16;31, 2 Timothy 3;15). the sacrifice of animals by the Jews in the Old Testament had no intrinsic power to remove sin, but it was a symbol of what God would do in sending His Son to die. the Jews had faith that God was going to send a Saviour, and when they asked for forgiveness for their sins and sacrificed animals they were demonstrating this faith. they had faith and it was credited to them as righteousness(Romans 4;9)
thus, people alive before Christs death had the opportunity for salvation. (for many examples of how faith saved people in the Old Testament read Hebrews 11, and note the presence of Rahab, who was not Jewish)
3; sadly there have been many atrocities carried out in the name of religion. these are indefencible. many arise from a gross misinterpretation of the Bible, as many supposedly ‘christian’ monarchs have used religion to further their political power. the Bible makes it clear that Christians are not to make the persuit of money or power their main aim, but to ‘lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal’(Matthew 6;20). however it must be pointed out that the misguided actions of people have no bearing at all on the truth of the Bible.
pardon the poor analogy, but if someone uses the laws of physics to do harm to other people in for example in using trajectory weapons, it does not change the laws of physics. they remain true and the same.
4: as above
5: as above
6: your definitions of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ are faulty here. God has revealed Himself as Love (1 John 4;8), but he is also Holy (Leviticus 11;45), and Just (Zephaniah 3;1)
these are only a few of the attributes of God, but are the most important ones for answering this question. No attribute of God contradicts any other attribute of His. thus, while He is good and merciful, giving common grace (Matthew 5;14), He must also punish sin and rebellion against Him because of His holiness and justice.
these two attributes do not contradict each other, and the ultimate demonstration of this is when God, out of love for people, sent Jesus to take the punishment for the sins of those who believe in Him. this allows a Christian to enter heaven without Gods justice being compromised.
God is slow to anger (Exodus 34;6), but if people will persist in their sin and rebellion against Him he will punish them. this is His divine prerogative. the examples you have listed where you described God as ‘evil’ are instances where people have been continually wicked (Genesis 6;5) and God must punish them.
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
interesting questions. it would take a long time to write a satisfactory answer to them all, but i’ll attempt to answer them all, as we are to ‘give a reason for hope’ that we have (1 Peter 3;15).
i will start by stating that God is God, and as such does not need to explain His actions. He created the world and has absolute rights to do whatever He sees fit. He can not be put on trial. (read Job 38-42 for Gods own words on this) ‘Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him?’ (Job 40;2)
1: this will require a long answer so i will deal with it later.
2: quite simply, no. the Bible teaches that salvation is through faith in Jesus (1 Peter 1;9, Acts 16;31, 2 Timothy 3;15). the sacrifice of animals by the Jews in the Old Testament had no intrinsic power to remove sin, but it was a symbol of what God would do in sending His Son to die. the Jews had faith that God was going to send a Saviour, and when they asked for forgiveness for their sins and sacrificed animals they were demonstrating this faith. they had faith and it was credited to them as righteousness(Romans 4;9)
thus, people alive before Christs death had the opportunity for salvation. (for many examples of how faith saved people in the Old Testament read Hebrews 11, and note the presence of Rahab, who was not Jewish)
3; sadly there have been many atrocities carried out in the name of religion. these are indefencible. many arise from a gross misinterpretation of the Bible, as many supposedly ‘christian’ monarchs have used religion to further their political power. the Bible makes it clear that Christians are not to make the persuit of money or power their main aim, but to ‘lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal’(Matthew 6;20). however it must be pointed out that the misguided actions of people have no bearing at all on the truth of the Bible.
pardon the poor analogy, but if someone uses the laws of physics to do harm to other people in for example in using trajectory weapons, it does not change the laws of physics. they remain true and the same.
4: as above
5: as above
6: your definitions of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ are faulty here. God has revealed Himself as Love (1 John 4;8), but he is also Holy (Leviticus 11;45), and Just (Zephaniah 3;1)
these are only a few of the attributes of God, but are the most important ones for answering this question. No attribute of God contradicts any other attribute of His. thus, while He is good and merciful, giving common grace (Matthew 5;14), He must also punish sin and rebellion against Him because of His holiness and justice.
these two attributes do not contradict each other, and the ultimate demonstration of this is when God, out of love for people, sent Jesus to take the punishment for the sins of those who believe in Him. this allows a Christian to enter heaven without Gods justice being compromised.
God is slow to anger (Exodus 34;6), but if people will persist in their sin and rebellion against Him he will punish them. this is His divine prerogative. the examples you have listed where you described God as ‘evil’ are instances where people have been continually wicked (Genesis 6;5) and God must punish them.
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
7: Mark 7 25-29 does not demonstrate that Jesus was a racist. you must understand that for many hundreds of years salvation and the knowledge of God was the almost exclusive priveledge of the Jews, God’s chosen people. there is a 400-500 year gap between the end of the Old Testament and the birth of Jesus. When Jesus was born it was the fulfillment of Gods promise to the Jews to send a Saviour, so Jesus gave the Jews the opportunity to believe in Him first. Tese verses in Mark are set during the period when Jesus was still preaching almost exclusively to Jews. it is not until later in Mark 16 that Jesus tells the disciples to tell the gospel to the whole world. (see Romans 1;16)
Jesus is not calling this woman a dog, He is simply saying that at that stage His message is largely aimed at the Jews, Gods covenant people.
notice that Jesus does heal her daughter.
8; i believe that women are created equal with men. this does not mean that women are created the same as men. in 1 Corinthians 11 the references to the shaved head are cultural ones, not discrimation. the shaved head was, as far as i can remember, the sign of a prostitute in Corinth. this reference is telling women not to degrade themselves by being associated with prostitutes.
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
AHH the Questions that bind us all .. NIce Job Man you really coverd it all …..THe way i see it .. GOd isnt so perfect as were lead to belive.
Nether are our perents, World Leaders or comic superheroes for that matter…
The Lord Works in mYsteriouse ways hey…lol
and it must be a hard job .. if you had to babysit a billon kids youd prob have your flaws 2 no? but all in all im glad that you question these things ,, when so many people just follow.
Comment by Rudy rudy — 7 November, 2006 #
it would also be insulting to a holy God for these women who claimed to be Christians to have a prostitutes haircut.
There are some truths in the Bible which are not what may be called ‘politically correct’. the reference in 1 Timothy 2 saying that a woman should not have authority over a man (the main meaning of which refers to instructing him in the Bible, as opposed to having a higher rank in a job etc.) is one of these truths. the Bible does not demean women however, and teaches that women should be ‘honoured’ (1 Peter 3;7), and states that they have rights as ‘heirs.. of the grace of life’.
the other important thing to remember is that no-one has any rights other than God allows them to have. God has the ultimate rights over and above anyone elses.
also worth noting is that Jesus actually interacted with women who the society at the time would have frowned upon(John 4;4-26 is worth reading for an example)
Ultimately, if you can’t accept what the Bible says, thats your fault.
9: the Bible states that slavery happens, it does not condone it. 1 Peter 2;18 is speaking to Christians who find themselves as slaves to non-Christian masters, and is teaching them to submit to and respect their masters, as this will testify to the fact that they are Christians as submission to and respect for a cruel master does not come naturally. in this way the masters may notice that the slave is a Christian and may find about Christianity themselves. this is practical Christianity.
10: none of these are about a child obeying their parents even when they make wrong decisions.
Deuteronomy 21;18-21 is not about children submitting to their parents. it is about punishment of sin. it is a demonstration of how seriously God takes sin. It is not meant to be taken literally anymore as the New Covenant of grace and salvation through faith replaces the old covenant of the Law.
Proverbs 13;24 is perfectly true. a child must be disciplined in order to grow into a good adult. if a parent does not live up to their responsabilities their children will grow up to be wild and godless. (this is one of the problems with society today) ultimately disciplin is unpleasant for a while, but it is for the long term good of the child.
Hebrews 12;7-8 is using this illustration to show that God sometimes needs to discipline Christians when they are doing things they shouldn’t.
11: this is a fairly complicated subject, and far wiser people than me have written long books about it. there is even differences within what i would call Evangelical Protestantism over the subject.
again, the starting point is that God is God and does not need to explain His actions.
The Bible clearly teaches Predestination (Ephesians 1;11), which means that before God created the world, He had decided those who would ultimately Believe on His Son and be saved.
However, the Bible also teaches that ‘God so loved the world, that He sent His only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth on Him should not perish but have eternal life’ (John 3;16, emphasis added), the implication here is that anyone can believe on Jesus.
Basically this means that anyone can believe, but only those God has chosen WILL believe.
this also means that there is still personal accountability for sin.
(sorry if this isnt a wonderful answer, but there are many Christian books on this topic if you would like to read more)
12: any sin does. God does not see sin in grayscale. if you are guilty of one sin you are guilty of the whole law (James 2;10). God is holy and can not have any sin in heaven. people tend to view sin as not very serious, but sin is rebellion against an all-powerful God. sin spoils what God has made good (see the early chapters of Genesis for how sin transformed what God declared as ‘very good’ to a world where God regretted creating man)
13: Gods Justice means that He must punish sin, which he will ultimately do in the case of the unbeliever. for the believer God has already punished sin when Jesus took the punishment for sin on the cross. Gods mercy is demonstrated in sending His Son in our place, and also in not punishing people for sin immediately.
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
14: im reluctant to get into the whole ‘casting out demons in our day and age’ thing as it is sometimes used to try and provide people with some kind of made to order miracle, and hence some are not genuine.
i do, however, believe that demon possesion happens today and i have met people who have cast out demons (they dont boast about it and they are not looking for praise or sensationalism, they are Christians i respect (some have calvanist theology and are not the type of people you would envisage casting out demons))
i honestly cant answer the question about demon possesion being mentioned in the New Testament and not the Old Testament. i would say that the cases of demons being cast out are used as a demonstration of Jesus power, or demonstrating the power of Jesus’ name when used in faith by a Christian. obviously this does not apply to the old testament. I dont know if demon possesion was common in Old Testament times. it is not recorded in the Bible.
i would not claim that people with schizophrenia have a demon. what i would say is that we really dont know what causes schizophrenia and the drugs we use treat symptoms but do not cure it (i am a medical student). demons still exist as much today as they ever did.
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
WOw i read all this from so and so .. And all i can say is .. Everthings is a contradiction .
To me true faith is somthing that a person decides him/herself..
Ofcorse a person has to learn somthing from somewere , I think following your concence is your best bet.Follow your Heart , God or not it will lead you in the write direction..and if it doesnt .. try another direction lol..
SO to those who are all knowing , Good for you , i hope things work out for you.
To those who know little,,dont be afrade to shop around..
Be good to each other thats the main thing write?
Comment by Rudy rudy — 7 November, 2006 #
there is also a general trend amoung people to deny the supernatural in this age of science, but by definition science can not explain the supernatural, as it is supernatural and can not be repeated or observed in a lab (which is a requirement for scientific analysis).
15: emotions reside in the brain (the limbic system), and personality to probably lies in the brain (at least to some extent). i am not aware of any Bible verse which says that personality lies in the soul
16: Because relatives and loved ones will not have the same significance in heaven. even your husband or wife will not be particularly special to you in heaven (Mark 12;25). also you will be happy because you will be with the God you love. As a Christian you still love your family etc, but you love God even more than them. therefore to be in the presence of God is happiness even if your family members are not there.
17: Revelation 21 and 22 describe heaven (there are many other references in the Bible, but this is the largest, most descriptive single reference)
as a place where the streets are paved with gold, where there is no suffering of tears, there is no sun or temple/church because the Glory of God is the light and God is there so there is no need for a church. (when reading revelation bear in mind that a lot of the language is heavily symbolic and figurative).
18: Hell is a place where those who have not believed in Jesus spend eternity. there are lots of references to it being a fiery place (Jude 1;7, Mark 9;43) where peoples torment will last forever (Revelation 14;11)
19: there is original sin because adam disobeyed God. adam is the literal and figurative head of the human race, so when he disobeyed God it affected all of us. if you want an analogy, think of playing rounders. if the first person up to bat is caught out, the whole team is out. we are all born with a sinful nature, and every time you commit a sin you are effectively saying that you agree with adams original rebellion against God.
20: Baptism has no intrinsic power to remove sin. i believe that a person should be baptised by their own choice when they are a Christian. it is a demonstration that this person has believed in Jesus and they want to let other people know. it does not remove sin.
21: God created adam and eve to have the capacity to love Him. he also gave them free choice and free will. in order to have free choice and free will you must have a choice. he did not want adam and eve to be robots. he wanted them to have an alternative to loving Him and obeying Him, so that they could have that alternative and CHOOSE to love Him.
God knew adam and eve would disobey Him, but he allows people to have their way for a time. if He forced adam and eve to love Him, the very act of loveing Him would have been meaningless.
22: sex in the context of marriage is indeed a wonderful and beautiful thing. sex outside of marriage is sinful.
the references you have pointed out there, which you interpret as saying ’sex is bad’ and ‘its better not to marry’ are not saying that sex in the context of marriage is a bad thing. they are saying that a person is often better able to serve God when they are single. therefore it is even better for a person to be so dedicated to God that they choose not to marry than for a person to take the easier option of marriage.
marriage is a very special thing because it is a picture of Christ and His Church.
23: Jesus did not say ‘the end of the world is coming soon’, He said that some of the disciples would not die before they saw the coming of Jesus. this is difficult to interpret, but i would personally view John’s vision on Patmos as fulfillment of this prophecy (although i could be wrong)
24: God gave signs to some people. that is His prerogative. He still does the same today sometimes, although it does not seem common. Jesus says that people who believe without seeing are even more blessed than those who need a sign.(John 20;29)
25:what inconsistancies?
26: im no expert on church history so i cant comment much on this. basically some of the books that are in the Catholic Bible are not in the Protestant Bible because they were deemed to be written too long after the rest of the New Testament. some Old Testament books were left out because their sources were dubious, they were inconsistant with the Jewish scriptures etc.
27: Before the original sin of man, all animals ate fruit/vegetation. death entered the world through sin (Romans 5;12). since then many animals eat meat and thorns grow out of the ground.
28: i wasnt around before the fall of man so i cant provide a definite answer. what i do know is that they wouldn’t have been nasty bloodsuckers, but would have eaten plant material, and probably served some useful purpose (see previous answer)
anyway i gotta go make dinner, so i’ll answer some more of the questions tomorrow.
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
its not the bible thats wrong its peoples interpritation of it thats wrong and unfortunatly almost all of them have it well and truly wrong
fact is the answers are there people just dont really want to know the answers if they did find out the truth it would make them acountable to god
oh and just for the record homosexualty is wrong has too are lesbians and if no one can see this in the bible i say try reading it its in black and white
Comment by alan — 7 November, 2006 #
Hi all. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. In response to the post as a whole, these questions have been asked before, and whatever intentions the author has, whether they be to bring company to you (author) in your depraved godless reality by attempting to discourage believers, or merely to ask questions, I would say either purpose would help rather than hurt the Christian. Questioning is good. It will lead you to an answer – Jesus Christ. And whether you recieve the answer, or turn away from the answer is up to you. By the tone of the post, it sounds like someone is bitter . Past experiences can really get to you. My own father was once studying to be a pastor, and something happened that made him incredibly bitter, and give up what God freely gives to those who ask. BUT…”He who began a good work in you, will be faithful to complete it”. What assurance! Whatever these words are worth, and whatever response anyone has, may it bring glory to the Father. The sovereignty of God is absolute, and His will is perfect. May Christians around the world take a stand in truth and love. “Work out your faith in fear and trembling”. – A believer
Comment by Biggpakk — 7 November, 2006 #
From:
http://www.wholesomewords.org/etexts/wilson/strang04.html
A Gentile woman pleaded with Christ for her daughter. She was a believing mother. She was a praying mother. She was a mother who came to Christ about her girl. How blessed it would be if every mother did so. Sometimes, the mother, herself, needs to be prayed for, because she has become the prey of the world and of Satan. Christ’s answer to her prayer was, “It is not meet to take the children’s bread to cast it unto the dogs.” Jesus had come to Israel, to the Jews, not the Samaritans. The humble heart of this mother at once took the place given to her and she replied, “Yes, Lord, yet the dogs under the table eat of the children’s crumbs.” Such faith and trust moved the heart of the lovely Lord and He granted her the desire of her heart, the healing of her daughter. It is not easy to take the place of a dog but she did it. It is humbling to be called a dog, but she was willing to be humble. It would be considered an insult by some if they were called dogs, but she accepted His diagnosis of her case and took the place which He gave her. This is faith. This is victorious faith. This is conquering faith. This faith gave her back her daughter.
Comment by Stephen Christopher Heinrich — 7 November, 2006 #
Though i could write page upon page on this matter i shall keep it brief. The number one point is if Adam and Eve lived 6 thousand years ago then why is there scientific proof of humans and indeed many many lifeforms existing a damn long time before then.
Thanks Junaman your my saviour
Religion breeds ignorance, war, unfailling belief in the proofless and slows down the progress of all of mankind
Comment by BoB — 7 November, 2006 #
Fools, and not in a bad way, touchy touchy you non beleivers get, you bash us and you can’t take it back. You don’t beelvie the earth is 6000 yrs old, well how about you see it from our point and learn from our experts that have proof to show that. I suggest Kent Hovind. wwww.drdino.com Genius, of course you don’t want to listen to it or beleive it because your hearts are hardened and can’t see past the lies you see. WELL, I pray you will repent and god will give you the wisdom to see the truth. I will do my part soon as I will be hitting the big screen soon with something to help non beleivers see the truth. Good luck
God Bless
Nathan
Comment by Nathan — 7 November, 2006 #
We really don’t need to fight nor argue about the bible. what i just don’t understand is why you people waste your time fighting against something you say it’s not real. I assure you God is real. I also assure you that someday (and that day is near) everyone will know He is real. I only ask you that you don’t fight against Him because it’s just a waste of effort. what you must realize is that God isn’t against us humans, He is against evil. so make sure you aren’t by evil’s side when the time comes. just give yourself a chance to be saved and instead of fighting against God stay by His side.
Comment by Lomax — 7 November, 2006 #
Almost everyone contributing on this page should be congratulated for managing to keep a fairly civil and respectful discussion going.
We’ve all got to remember that unless you share someone’s belief system, you’re (by definition) not going to believe the same thing as them.
I don’t share the same beliefs as anyone else posting on this page but I can see and understand their reasoning. We’ve got to remember that while it’s easy to knock religion, science is no better. Now I don’t say that lightly – I have an Engineering degree and a physics degree and I loved studying physics. That said, modern physics is simply riddled with flaws and “believe it coz we said so” style teaching. Newtonian physics, which forms the foundation of most of modern mechanics, is fundamentaly flawed and simply doesn’t stack up on an atomic level. Quantum mechanics doesn’t work on a large scale. Relativity argues with Quantum physics and vice versa. Now I can turn around and write 150 questions on why do you believe in science when it’s really not so advanced as you think it is. Medicine is little better than the process of using trial and error + antibiotics to solve everything and 9 times out of 10 the body fixes the problem itself.
Modern physics proves that bees cannot fly, but I can see one outside the window right now. Now in light of that, would anyone care to explain why science is your new religion? The pursuit of greater understanding of our world is a noble and wonderful (and really interesting) process but it doesn’t automatically preclude religion. Likewise, religion should never automatically preclude science.
“Religion breeds ignorance, war, unfailling belief in the proofless and slows down the progress of all of mankind” – Science also has been guilty of making war substantially more destructive and impeeding progress. Unfailing belief that the Earth moved in space through “ether” allowed the ridiculing of any scientific work towards proving otherwise for many, many years and there’s plenty of examples like this. Some people cling to science like a crutch, just the same as some do religion.
It can be argued that science has even caused wars. Certain countries, who shall remain nameless, have recently even invaded other countries to ensure particular elements of science remain unavailable to them. Now that’s a bit of a stretch, sure, but the fact is, people find reasons to fight and religion and science and whatever are always just excuses used to fight about a) resources and b) power.
Religion has also brought progress to the world. Most elements of common decency and common laws stem from the OT. You’d be surprised how much of your day to day living comes from this source. It’s easy to say ” i wouldn’t steal because I know it’s wrong” but its exceptionally difficult to prove that you didn’t get that belief from your parents and your society, who, at some point in the past, got it from the Bible.
So to sum up yet another long winded post, religion and science have both been used for good and bad, by people, good and bad. This will continue. Both have their place and both are valid contributers to the world will live in.
Comment by Gumbercules — 7 November, 2006 #
I was raised catholic, went to catholic school, and became atheist.
After about 7 years I started to grow tired of acting like so many people on this board… angry, resentful, and constantly trying to refute any type of god. I never attacked religion outright, but I have quite a few friends who do, and are what I refer to as “Angry Atheists.”
I’m not quite sure what brought me back, but I’m a much happier person.
I guess I just grew up.
Comment by adam — 7 November, 2006 #
Mhhhhh very interesting posts indeed, but I have something to point out! For starters as we are all uniquely different in all aspects – it is Impossible for one man to say one thing to convince another. a decision is internal not external so in truth this whole conversation is in fact a complete waste of time. There is no denying that as no agreement has been made! But one thing i have noticed is the failure to see the two point of views displayed in the one post. Indeed there are two options in this age of reason for existence:
1. The Theory of Intelligent Design
2. The Theory of Evolution
Indeed they are both theories despite attempts at proving on both sides! But lets take a look at the future and purpose of both, do not people struggle with meaning and purpose? Ok:
1. The purpose or future of Intelligent Design is the believe/faith of many is the concept of heaven or hell, but for the purpose of this post I want to focus on the positive: so heaven is the goal or future of Christians, a belief that there will be eternal happiness and joy, with little harps. Another common belief of Christians is of joining a ‘Kingdom of God’, a family by which the world is transformed at the conversion of heart and through repentance and baptism, in which as believed will result in Utopia. Ok.
2. In the case of Evolution a different side of the story is represented and that is the belief that all life was made through various processes such as survival of the fittest, gene pooling of traits and characteristics and of course mutation. but what is the purpose of the evolved? Indeed considering the believe that we are naught but Apes, indeed the need to propagate our genetic material through sexual reproduction is the belief. To live, mature, mate and die, all in the hope that our genetic material moves on and all the while utilizing our environment to the upmost for reproductive strength.
So they are the choices, there is no use in saying you don’t believe in either, for that would suggest you have no beginning and therefore do not exist, so one must choose a path. Mhhh indeed as the famous line goes: the red pill or the blue pill?
So indeed the choice is before you, I would not be surprised if there were millions of forums demanding answers for evolutions sake! So what do we have as children of god or apes? But choice!
If there is one thing spoken of in science its: You make up your mind, you decide and quite asking others!
Good day to you
Comment by A Scientist — 7 November, 2006 #
Just wait until you die.
Comment by SomeGuy — 7 November, 2006 #
well done Gumbercules i thoroughly agree!
complements.
Comment by A Scientist — 7 November, 2006 #
The Christian explains himself.
Hello, you have made an appropriate challenge to any Christian to answer all of your questions. For the scripture its self says 1 Peter 3:15 “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:”
To give you a bit of back round on me: I’m 25 born and raised Catholic until grade 3, then moved over to the protestant church. Didn’t take my faith seriously till I was in grade 10; in grade 10 I went to church hanged out with other Christians studied the scriptures a little bit here and there but I was just an average Christian. Not till 5 years ago did I start to really build my relationship with God. For this is what a Christian is, a follower of Jesus Christ. That’s it, and the 2 most important things in my life is to love God with all my heart, soul and mind and to love all people out there like Jesus does. Christianity is all about relationships and doing the right things to build your relationships. Unfortunately there are millions out there claiming to be a Christian when actual fact they aren’t. And this is what gives true follower a bad name. I could sit in a garage all I want and call my self a car, it doesn’t make me a car though. Same with Christians, Muslims, I mean how many terrorists out there claim what they are doing is for Allah, a true Muslim denounces those terrorists who kill innocent people with their suicide bombings.
I’m sure you have received a lot of crap emails and maybe 1 or 2 good ones. I believe this will be a good one as well. I will be the first to admit I’m not a scholar, never been to bible school but I’m a dedicated person to my Lord and savior and I got common sense and that’s all you really need. So with what ever questions I can’t answer there are biblical scholars and apologetics people out there. One of the top that I recommend is “Josh Mcdowell” and he wrote a book called “The new evidence that demands a verdict” I just started reading it and it answers 99% of the questions all on historical/scientific evidence that plausibly shows God exists. Part of the faith though is having faith that God exists and that all that it says in scripture is true. And there is more than enough evidence that shows that this is the most plausible answer out there to our existence, why we are here, what we are to do, what happens when we die and so on. I believe no one can 100% percent prove that God exists or doesn’t exist, part of it is faith. Anyways to your questions:
1. Explain why your god’s only son had to die so we can go to magic happy land when we croak.
A: First we need a bit of back round. After God created the heavens and earth He created the Tree of knowledge “Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” Because God created humans with a free will you can only have a proper loving relationship by allowing the person to choose to love you and accept you or reject you. Next we ate of the tree “Gen 3:(6)And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. (vs 7)And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.”
So by choosing to disobey God, what we call sin entered into the world and separated man and God because God is perfect & pure. “Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” So because sin leads to death, something had to be done for the atonement of sin. Because God created hell for Satan and his demons (Mathew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.) he didn’t want any of his children to go their so he created the sacrificial system of the old covenant (old testament), which was that they would shed the blood of an animal for the atonement (the divine act of grace in which God accepts an offering as a substitute for the punishment for sin, since blood is the life force of all creatures, the blood of one for the other must be made for atonement to be made) of their sin. The book of Leviticus talks all about how the Israelites were to do sacrifices before the Lord.
We all stand as sinners before a holy God. “Romans 3:23 For we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” “Romans 3:10 No one is good not even one.” This doesn’t mean there aren’t good people out there, or do good things. What it means is that no one is good enough to satisfy God. He is holy and perfect and is required of the same as us. “1 Peter 1:16 Be holy as I am holy.” “Hebrews 12:14 pursue holiness and peace.” We recognize that none of us is as good as we are to be. No one is as good as God.
This is the bad news, so the good news is that God sent his son to die in our place. “Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. (7)For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. (8)But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” “2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; (19)To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. “
It’s not what about what I did to please God, I’ve done everything to displease God & fail & fall short. But then this newness of life that comes from God brings me back to himself. This is why Jesus is the only way to God. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” “Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.” “1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;” for us as Christians to say anything else is wrong. 2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
So Jesus died for us to make an atonement for our sins so that we can be restored to our proper place/relationship with God. That is the short version of it. But I wanted to give you a detailed answer for this first one because it is the foundation of the Christian beliefs.
2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.
A: I believe no. I don’t believe anyone is in Hell right now. Not until the final judgment do humans go to the lake of fire with the devil and his angels (2nd death). What does happen when a man dies? Ecclesiastes 12:7 answers simply, “Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.” Now that word spirit is the Hebrew word “ruwach” [Strong's H7307]. It is translated 117 times as “wind” and 33 times as “breath.” This word “spirit” in any concordance or dictionary means “breath.” That’s why it returns to God who gave it. Notice the many other Scriptures where spirit simply means the breath of life. Job 27:3, “All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils.” Now what did God put in man’s nostrils? Genesis 2:7, “The breath of life. Let’s look at Jesus on the cross. Luke 23:46, “And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.” “Into thy hands I commend My spirit” or breath of life. Jesus didn’t go to paradise until the following Sunday, three days later. After His death He simply died and His breath or spirit returned to God.
Let’s illustrate it like this. Man breaths breath, so does a horse, and so does a bird. Electricity is the same. An oven uses it, the elevator uses it, lights use it, different appliances use it, but it’s all the same source of life. On one side we have a light bulb; let’s say it represents Adam. On the other side we have a source of life, electricity; let’s say it represents God’s breath of life. Unite them and we have “life.” Take it away and life ceases to exist. So it is with man. James 2:26. “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” So when a man dies, his breath or spirit returns back to God, and the body returns to dust. The same happens with animals. The Bible clearly teaches this. Ecclesiastes 3:19- 20, “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity. All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”
Next question, What happens in the grave? Where are the dead? Are they in heaven or hell? Let’s see what the apostles said in Acts 2:29, “Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day. … For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, ” David is not in heaven. Let’s see what Jesus said, and here we come to a very important key. John 11:11- 14, “These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.”
Death is referred to as a sleep 66 times in the Bible. Notice these references:
Deuteronomy 31:16, “And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; …” 2 Samuel 7:12, “And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou (David) shalt sleep with thy fathers, …” 1 Kings 1:21, “Otherwise it shall come to pass, when my lord the king shall sleep with his fathers, …” 1 Kings 2:10, “So David slept with his fathers, and was buried in the city of David.” 1 Kings 11:21, “And when Hadad heard in Egypt that David slept with his fathers, … ” 1 Kings 14:20, “And the days which Jeroboam reigned were two and twenty years: and he slept with his fathers, …” Job 7:21, “… for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.”
Psalms 76:5, “The stouthearted are spoiled, they have slept their sleep: …”
Jeremiah 51:39, “… I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD.”
Daniel 12:2, “And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, …”
Matthew 9:24, “He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth.” John 11:11, “These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; …” 1 Corinthians 15:6, “… but some are fallen asleep.” 1 Thessalonians 4:13, “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep,”
“Sleep” is clearly the biblical term for death. Look up the rest of the texts which refer to death as “sleep,” they are: (2 Kings 13:13; 2 Kings 14:16, 22, 29; 15:7, 22, 38; 16:20; 20:21; 21:18; 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31; 12:16; 14:1; 16:13; 21:1; 26:2, 23; 27:9; 28:27; 32:33; 33:20; Job 14:12; Psalm 13:3, 76:6; 90:5; Jeremiah 51:57; Matthew 27:52; Mark 5:39; Luke 8:52; Acts 7:60; 13:36; 1 Corinthians 11:30; 15:18, 20; and so on.
Clearly, then, in both Old and New Testaments this is the term the Bible writers used to describe death. To them it was a sleep in Jesus. Sleep is a beautiful illustration of death. It is like going to bed at night, when we are tired, with assurance of waking in the morning. This takes fear out of death for the Christian. They lie down to sleep, with the quiet assurance that Jesus will awaken them in the morning of the resurrection at His second coming. We are to regard death as a sound, dreamless sleep. A person may have been in the tomb 1,000 years, but when raised at the resurrection it will seem to him that he merely dozed off for a moment. When angels meet God’s resurrected saints at their grave side, it will be like a loving mother greeting her child after a brief nap. Matthew 24:31, “And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
Man is not immortal. He is subject to death. But God’s people do, indeed, have eternal life now. Eternal life is that miraculous, new, Jesus-filled life, which begins at conversion and will be continued in heaven. God’s promise is that His faithful people, who now have eternal life, will not suffer the second death. Revelation 2:11, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.” From this death there is no resurrection. The first death, which all men must die, does not remove the gift of eternal life. It only interrupts it while the saints sleep briefly. It continues in heaven after the resurrection. Ecclesiastes 9:5- 6, “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.” The “dead know not anything, no love, have,” et cetera.
Let’s put it all together. One passage of Scripture makes it so simple. Job 14:12- 14, “So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.” Three points. Man is in the grave until: A. “The heavens be no more.” 2 Peter 3:10, “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” B. “Till thy wrath is past.” Revelation 15:1, “And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.” C. “Till my change comes.” When will the dead be changed? At the second coming! 1 Corinthians 15:51- 54, “Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.” Notice all three passages refer to the second coming of Jesus.
So once again long story short, you die and your spirit/breath of God goes back to God and your body returns to the dust of the earth until the 2nd coming of Jesus and then we’ll be judged. I could go on with the details on the end times but that would be to long to go into and that’s not part of the question so I’ll end it hear.
3. a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until there were so few that the government could simply take their land; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the reforms of the seventeenth century.
A: I can’t justify the actions of another. I can only try to justify my actions. I know what a Christian is and like I said before just because some one says they are a Christian that doesn’t make them a Christian. Jesus said the world would know us (Christians) by our fruit (our deeds and how we live), and obviously these people who went on witch hunts and killed all of these people throughout time I don’t personally believe they were Christians. Christians is about loving all especially your enemies.
4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.
A: Same as my answer to #3. And I’m not part of a sect. I’m a follower of Jesus Christ. That’s it. No domination, not protestant or Catholic just a follower of Christ.
5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not members of your particular sect.
A: Same as #3 & 4. True followers of Christianity go out into the world to bring the gospel, medical help, all types of help that no one else cares about. Look at all the missionary organizations that help out all around the world. There are literally millions of stories from the help people have received and the results of Christians helping others. In the past few years, hurricane Katrina, the Tsunami there is tones of information if you look for it. Its just not reported on in detail or barely reported on at all and Christians have done it for free, and at their own expense of millions of dollars. Take a look at Joyce Meyers ministries and the help she does all around the world and in the US, with Katrina, people in prison, people on the streets and so on. http://www.joycemeyer.org
So there are stories of people claiming to be Christian doing all this evil but there are stories of the exact opposite. Judge people by their fruit!
6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).
A: The scriptures show that God is perfect, holy, good but also just. First we are not God, nor have the mind of God so we can’t understand all that he does. How can a finite mind understand an infinite mind? It’s not possible. All the scriptures and stories of the old testament where God told the Israelites to wipe out their enemies was because if the Israelites let those people live and dwell with them they would integrate themselves and lead them away from worshiping and following God which would be breaking the commandments God gave them which leads to sin and death. As well those nations were extremely wicked nations who would do the most inhumane things, like rape, child sacrifice and so on. God gives all a chance to repent and when they do he forgives them of their sin and keeps them alive. Read the story of Jonah in the book of Jonah in the bible you’ll see what I mean. The whole nation of Nineveh which was one of the most wicked repented and turned towards God so he forgave them. So God gave these nations a chance to repent and change and they didn’t and he didn’t want his people to stray so he commanded them to be destroyed for their wickedness. But the Israelites didn’t fully listen in many situations and their story if you read in the old testament was a one of continually following God then turning away and then following him then turning away again. Now when Jesus came there hasn’t been any instances where God told his followers to go and destroy someone, instead Jesus said Mark 16:15 “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” 1 John 3:23 “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.”
With scripture what people like to do who don’t understand it is take verse out of context and let it say what they want it to say. So when quoting scripture you need to understand the context of it to understand what the writer is saying. For instance in Luke 14:26 Jesus is saying all who value their family, themselves more than God and following him can’t be Jesus disciple. For I have just quoted you Jesus great commandment to love all. People say there are contradictories in the Bible, there is not one! You just need to understand the context of the scripture.
Everything that God created is good for he himself said it was all good in Genesis after he created every thing. It us humans aren’t good and have destroyed the earth and each other as we can see throughout history. So the point is that God is good, but because of our free will we choose to do evil. Therefore God and evil can coexist. I can go into a lot more detail on this if you want but I wont at this moment because I believe if you think about it you will come to that conclusion. Quick example: if I break my leg well I can stop the pain by amputating my leg which solves the pain but I’ve done a greater evil cause I know longer have a leg. A boy doesn’t understand why these people are holding him done and about to cut him with a knife, he wakes up and realizes they did a life saving operation, and so on.
7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.
A: Racism is 100% wrong I agree, but Jesus is not racist in this passage. Mark 7:25 “Instead, at once, a woman whose little daughter had (was under the control of) an unclean spirit heard about Him and came and flung herself down at His feet. (26) Now the woman was a Greek (Gentile), a Syrophoenician by nationality. And she kept begging Him to drive the demon out of her little daughter. (27)And He said to her, First let the children be fed, for it is not becoming or proper or right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the [little house] dogs. (28)But she answered Him, Yes, Lord, yet even the small pups under the table eat the little children’s scraps of food. (29) And He said to her, Because of this saying, you may go your way; the demon has gone out of your daughter [permanently].”
How is Jesus racist in this passage? The daughters demon was cast out which the mom asked to have happen.
8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that discrimination against women solely on the basis of sex is morally acceptable.
A: The bible says that women were oppressed so were the Israelites but the scriptures on teaching how men and women should behave does not oppress women. Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.” So as you see man and women are both equal in Christ, but they way God has set up authority is Jesus is the head, then man, then women because of the women sinning first Genesis 3:16 “Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” This is not oppressing her just the way God has it set up. Just as you and I have authority over us like our parents, our government and so on. Its just the way God has our lives set up in order to have order in our world. If you have a righteous person ruling over you like a king or your dad, well then he is not oppressing you, but when there is a wicked person who is over you well then you are oppressed. People need to have an authority over them or there would be chaos.
You need to understand the context of the scripture and society at the time. In Timothy 2:11-15. At that time the Greeks had these temples where the temple women were slaves and prostitutes. They had shaved heads, or braded hair with all this gold jewelry to make them selves look more appealing and so men would know who the prostitutes were. So this is why women were to obey Paul in the way they looked and dressed because he didn’t want men thinking they were prostitutes. Just like today if you have a daughter you don’t want her to dress like a prostitute or people will think she is. Next when Paul told the women to be quiet in church and not teach the customs of that day was that the men sat on one side of the church while the women on the other. Since the Holy Spirit was moving and these were new believers the women would shout out across the church to their husbands and ask what’s going on because they didn’t understand. So the men were to tell their wives at home what was all taking place and give them understanding then. As well in the temples the prostitutes would be speaking and preaching to the people that went by and I guess Paul was saying at that time the men should just be the ones teaching in the main gatherings, but never when friends got together outside of the services.
These days our culture is very different then that culture. So there are foundational truths that don’t change but little things that do. In the Old Testament there was prophetess as well in the New Testament. Mary Magdalene was the first one who saw Jesus raised and told to go and tell the others. That sounds like preaching to me. So God can call anyone to do anything he wants them to. So taken in context you will see how the scriptures don’t oppress women but lets them be equal as man but the husband is still head of his family. But the mother is over their children. It’s the way it is, but it’s not oppression.
9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that slavery is an acceptable way to run a society.
A: Well back then people who were slaves were both slaves to Christians and to non Christians. For this verse, it was for all servants. In the King James it uses the word servant instead of slave cause these people were not all slaves, but for those working for others and slaves too. Today we would use this verse to people who are employees. I believe slavery is wrong too but it takes a few generations to abolish a system of living. Back then slaves would live on their masters property, eat their food and so on. It would be like you going somewhere to work where everything is covered for you.
I know lots of Christians have had slaves over the years but I don’t know if they really were Christians and if they were lots of them freed their slaves. Example is John Newton who was one of the meanest men to exist who was then saved by grace. He wrote “Amazing Grace.” He was a seamen on a slave trader ship and still traded for 7 years after he was saved. That was the culture when he lived and it was acceptable. But after 7 years on conviction from the Holy Spirit he finally smartens up and stopped having and trading slaves. So it takes time for some people to change when the culture says it’s ok. Slavery is wrong but at the same time what ever we seek after the most we are in a sense a slave to that. I’m a slave to Christ; others are slaves to money, alcohol, drugs, power.
So all in all the context of the verse is servants are supposed to serve their masters as if they were serving God, with respect, honor, and work hard. This is consistent with other scriptures. Read the next few verses from this passage and see this.
10. Explain why children should submit to their parents’ decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.
A: Well why should you submit to the police, why not just go and do what ever you want? Why not go into a bank and steal 1 million dollars and kill anyone who gets in your way? There are absolute truths! To say the Hitler killing the Jews was right would be insane. Since we are born into sin/evil we are rebellious and have an evil nature. Look at young kids, they are selfish, they want what they want when they want it and if they aren’t chastise as scripture says they will grow up rebellious to God and their parents and they will perish. The biblical way of discipline is to chastise your child in love, for God chastises us with love. Both us and kids need to be disciplined or we will grow up being wicked and rebellious and we can see that all over the world especially in all of these high school killings. Now the key is to chastise with love, cause if you do it out of anger your child will grow up with an anger problem as well.
Now God says we should always submit our selves to authority unless it goes against God and his word. We are first under his authority then mans. So obey your parents, authority unless it goes against the word of God and his character.
11. Explain why, if your god loves us all, more than half of us are going to Hell after we die. Specifically, refute or explain the following words of Christ, as presented in the New Testament: “Many are called but few are chosen,” and “Straight is the gate, and narrow is the way that leadeth unto salvation, and few there be that find it.” If your god loves all of us, couldn’t he find a better way?
A: Well first off I have no idea how many are going to heaven or to the lake of fire. I would say most to be honest choose not to follow Jesus Christ. But in order for someone to truly love you, you must have free will. Therefore God gives all a chance to become his children but it is us who either choose to be a follower of Christ (make Jesus both Savior and Lord) and go to heaven or we choose our own path and go to the lake of fire. Jesus is just saying few people become his followers and carry out the purpose for their life. And I believe that to be true. I mean if you take a look at the life of Paul after he was saved, arguably no one other then Jesus made such an impact on humanity. When the few do exactly what they are called to do, amazing things happen. And there are few that choose to live that life because it is a completely selfless life and even most Christians are just happy with being saved, with making Jesus their savior but very few let him be Lord over every area of their life.
12. Explain what type of offense could possibly justify eternal, unbearable torture in Hell; if your sect does not believe in Hell, then refute every passage in the Old and New Testaments which describes Hell (such as 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 and Revelation 20:15). Do not exceed 100 words.
A: Well we already start off being disconnected from God because of Adam and Eve’s sin. We are born into sin. Therefore we need to be reconnected to God through Jesus Christ. Reread my answer to question 1!
13. Explain how your god can be both just and merciful, when these terms apparently contradict each other.
A: Justice is getting what you deserve. Mercy is getting what you don’t deserve plus a whole lot more. Example: I am a sinful man, I was born into sin, so I justly deserve to go to the lake of fire(hell). But because of God’s mercy, Jesus died for me who was sinless and he allows me to go to heaven for eternity.
God is perfect therefore when injustice takes place God will bring his justice, holiness. But because God is a loving forgiving God his Mercy can spare us of what we deserve.
So the gospel is the perfect example of Gods justice and mercy. We are going to the lake of fire cause we are sinful (Justice) but because he created hell for Satan and his demons he doesn’t want any of his children to go there. So he sent Jesus (who was perfect, sinless, God in flesh) to die for us (Jesus death, innocent blood was the atonement for our sins {God’s justice and mercy all in one}). Know through Jesus we are saved and our relationship has been restored with God and we are going to heaven (Gods mercy).
14. Explain why possession by demons and/or other evil spirits was common during the time of Jesus, but hardly mentioned in the Old Testament, and apparently has been explained completely away today by things such as epilepsy and schizophrenia.
A: Its just as common today as it was then. I don’t know why it wasn’t mentioned all that much in the Old Testament, but demons have been around ever since these angels were cast out of heaven with Satan. Just because its not mentioned that much doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Its actually talked a lot and shown these days by certain ministries out there.
15. Explain why, if the personality resides in the soul, things like drugs and brain damage can affect someone’s personality.
A: Well there is the body/soul/spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:23 “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” So your body is your flesh, your spirit is Gods breath of life in you, as well as the thing that is used to communicate with God or demons (witches/psychics, this is how they communicate with demons to get information to “wow” people with out even knowing the person) and then your soul which is your mind/will/emotions. Your soul is your personality. So when you do drugs it messes with your body and your mind (The mind is your self awareness, what you use to contemplate life and so on, while the brain is just the flesh that resides in your skull). Now when you get brain damage it interrupts your thinking process. Think of your brain as the hardware of your computer while your mind is the software running on the computer. Now your body, soul, and spirit work together, and when one gets damaged, it affects the other.
16. If heaven is a place where everyone is perfectly happy, then explain how I could be happy in heaven if I had loved ones in Hell.
A: Heaven is not about us, its about worshiping God and being in relationship with him and others for the rest of our lives. We can’t comprehend how amazing heaven is and just being in Gods presence, for God him self said to Moses, if you were to see me in all my glory you would die. To fully answer your question, I can admit I can’t. Cause I’ve never been to heaven and I don’t know what we will all be doing there. All I know is that there will be no more sin or death, but life and truth. It is perfect and I can’t comprehend that fully with my earthly finite mind.
17. What is Heaven like?
A: Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. 10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it. 25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26And they shall bring the glory and honor of the nations into it. 27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiled, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb’s book of life.
So no sin, no death, living in eternity with the God who created all of this, sounds pretty good to me. With seeing all the beauty here on the earth and it is nothing compared to the new heavens and new earth, yah that’s totally worth living my life for Christ here on earth. With about being there how can you really tell what heaven is like? But I have enough information to know that, that is where I want to go.
18. What is Hell like?
A: A place with out God. Without truth and light. That is hell. This is a very short answer but if you take the time to really think about it, well that’s all I need to say.
19. Explain why original sin exists. Why should I be eternally tortured for something that a pair of naked fruit-munching simpletons did in a garden over six thousand years ago? If you believe that children are born stained because they were conceived sexually, explain why I would be punished for something my parents did by your merciful and just god. If this does not apply to your sect, explain why.
A: Refer to answer #1. Quick recap. Adam & Eve choose to disobey God (entered sin) and eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Their close relationship with God was broken by sin because God is perfect and darkness and light can’t coexist. Therefore we are separated from God at birth, and this is why Jesus died making the atonement for our sins and thus reestablishing that relationship with God through him alone. So we have to choose to make Jesus our Lord and Savior because he is the only way to God and new born babies can’t do this because they haven’t come to an age where they can willfully accept or reject Christ.
Now do I believe a child who dies before coming to the age where they can choose life or death, does go to heaven cause they haven’t rejected Christ. This is where God’s mercy and grace comes into play. Though they are still sinful creature in the womb Jesus died for them too. And if they can’t make the choice I don’t believe they are sentenced to a life of death because they didn’t have a chance to decide what they want to do. Scripture tells us God judges us according to our accountability of what we know. So a person on a island who never has heard the gospel will be held accountable to their life and how they lived it. I believe God gives everyone the chance to come to him who can choose weather to follow him or not. But I’m not God and he is just in all that he does and to let whom ever he wants into heaven.
20. Explain why getting dunked in or sprinkled with water will prevent me from being eternally tortured for the actions of the naked fruit-munching simpletons mentioned in #19.
A: It wont. But when someone is baptized in water a few things are done. One they repent (ask for forgiveness and turn 180 degrees from the sin and walk in light) of their sins they proclaim and accept that Jesus is both Lord and Savior of their life. That is what gets you into heaven. But you don’t need to be baptized to be saved. Its just something Jesus tells us to do because your making a public declaration of your turn around from a life of sin and death to a life of truth and light and to go to heaven.
If you want to get right with God, if you want to go to heaven when you die, this is what you need to know.
1. You have sinned, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we all have broken Gods commandments.
2. Recognize that Christ died on the cross for you. He died in your place because there was no other way for you to satisfy to righteous demands of a holy God you have offended.
3. You need to repent of your sin. God has commanded us to repent and turn toward him.
4. You need to receive Christ into your heart as savior and Lord.
5. And you need to do it now! This is an either or proposition. To not say yes to Jesus is to say no to Jesus. Do you want to come to Jesus right now?
6. Now that the person is converted they need to grow and stop sinning. Watch their fruit.
21. If your god did not want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, why did he put the tree in the garden of Eden (and at the center, no less)? Was it for shade? If so, why use something so dangerous as a shade tree? If the purpose of the tree was to tempt Adam and Eve, explain why it’s OK for your god to engage in a practice that our modern-day courts of law refer to as “entrapment.”
A: The tree is in the garden cause they had to choose to obey God or disobey God. How does one have a free will if they only have one option? So they were given the option. It was in the garden cause that’s where they lived. There’s no choice if you don’t know about something and never have it come into your life. I believe it was in the center cause it represented God and his person, knowing both good and evil. Genesis 3:22 ”And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:”
God does not tempt us! First Genesis 1:1 “Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. 6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons. “
So we see that Adam and Eve had no desire to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil but it was the serpent that tempted them to eat it and they did. So God did not tempt them and he still does not tempt us. For we are tempted by the desires of our sinful nature. John 3:19 “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”
22. Explain why sex, potentially one of the most wonderful, beautiful things in human nature, is considered “bad” by your particular sect. If your sect does not consider sex to be “bad,” then refute Matthew 19:12, 1 Corinthians 7 (particularly verses 1 and 9), Galatians 5:17, 1 Thessalonians 4:3, James 1:14-15, Matthew 24:38, Luke 17:27, and Revelation 14:4.
A: Sex is not bad but good, but only in the way God created it for. Between one man and one woman in a committed relationship. We would call this committed relationship marriage. 1 Corinthians 7:1 “Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.” So when you read verse 2 you see Paul is talking about not to fornicate with a women, but have your own wife or husband depending on your sex. Galatians 5:17 “the flesh” is our sinful carnal nature, not the physical body. 1 Thes 4:3 talks about fornication. Fornication is any type of sexual immorality. Sexual immorality is any sexual type of act outside of a committed marriage. So any type of sexual intercourse, oral sex, and whatever else you may feel guilty for doing. Some say kissing is fornication I don’t believe lip to lip kissing is fornication, or holding hands but any time you are both naked and doing sexual stuff I do believe that is fornication.
23. Explain why, if Jesus was perfect, he thought that the end of the world was coming soon, when it has clearly not come yet. See Matthew 16:27-28.
A: Since God is timeless, time has no meaning to him, so 1 second or 1 thousand years is nothing for him. So soon could be that day or the end of this world. In verse 28 Jesus says “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.” 1 of 2 things; First if you read the verse it says Jesus is coming into his kingdom, which one? The one where he ascended into heaven which many people did see Acts 1:9 “And when He had said this, even as they were looking [at Him], He was caught up, and a cloud received and carried Him away out of their sight. 10And while they were gazing intently into heaven as He went, behold, two men [dressed] in white robes suddenly stood beside them,” or Jesus was referring to his 2nd coming. If the later I’m not sure of what the actual Greek is and what he meant by there will be some who will not taste death. Maybe Jesus was referring to his second coming and how there will be those alive who will not taste death and be caught up into heaven with him. You can ask a scholar that.
24. Explain why some people (James, Peter, Paul, Thomas, etc.) should get convincing physical proof of miracles, while the rest of us are supposed to take these happenings on faith.
A: Jesus says to Thomas John 20:29 “Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, Thomas, do you now believe (trust, have faith)? Blessed and happy and [c]to be envied are those who have never seen Me and yet have believed and adhered to and trusted and relied on Me.” We have miracles that happen every day if you listen to Christian radio and listen to all of these healing miracles and even watch some TV evangelists; things happen that can only be classed as miracles. I have seen miracles happen, haven’t you?
25. Why are the stories of the resurrection inconsistent?
A: They aren’t! Show me how they are inconsistent.
26. If you are a Protestant or a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, explain why you are still using the Catholic Bible, which was formalized by a vote among (supposedly divinely inspired) cardinals and bishops in the fourth century CE, when you disagree with the idea that the Pope, who is higher in the Catholic hierarchy, is divinely inspired; if a Catholic, explain why your church accepts the canonical Bible while rejecting the Apocrypha (do not use the “divinely inspired” argument: Because I am not religious, I will not be able to accept it).
A: I use the King James Bible and Amplified bible. The King James was put together by King James in the 17th century based on all of the scriptures that the kings biblical scholars had passed down. Scriptures they used to put into what we have as the bible have been proven to be 99.8% accurate from the original texts.
27. If your god is kind and gentle, why do some animals have to eat meat?
A: Well everything was perfect in the Garden before sin entered into the world. After man sinned everything got changed. God told the serpent Genesis 3:14 “And the Lord God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all [domestic] animals and above every [wild] living thing of the field; upon your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust [and what it contains] all the days of your life.” Now I can only imagine what a serpent looked like before sinned entered into the world.
28. If your god is kind and gentle, why did he create parasites?
A: Same as #27
29. If your god wants us to worship him through our own free will, why does he threaten us with Hell? If you have someone threatening you with a punishment, it isn’t free will.
A: God doesn’t threaten us with hell. He says you have two options, 1) truth and life or 2)sin and death. You choose. That’s like saying here’s a gun, put the gun to your head and pull the trigger or put it down. You choose. Free will is a choice. But God tells us choose life, emphasis added. Like I said before the Lake of Fire was made only for Satan and his demons, because they were the first to rebel, it was not created for man, but by you not choosing truth and life (Jesus Christ) you choose death.
30. Why would your god deliberately cause sinners to sin (cf. Romans 9:15-23 and numerous parts of the book of Exodus where Jehovah says, “I will harden Pharaoh’s heart.”). Are these sinners still responsible for the sins which your god forces them, against their will, to commit? Justify your answer.
A: God doesn’t cause people to sin Romans 7:7 “What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.” John 3:19 “The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.” We sin because it our nature to sin. When God harden Pharos heart we already know that is heart was already hard toward the Jews and their God, because Pharaoh in his own eyes was God. God knew that Pharaoh would not let the people go so he allowed Pharaoh to have his heart harden more and more. In all reality God knew Pharos heart already and knew the decisions he was going to make so he assisted in hardening his heart. But it was Pharos choice all the time in what to do.
31. If Jesus did have to die, why did someone (specifically, Judas) have to be damned in order accomplish the death and resurrection of Jesus? Jesus was at least a volunteer for the cross; I doubt that your god asked Judas if he was willing to go to Hell so that the resurrection could be accomplished.
A: Mark 4:21 “The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.” Here Jesus doesn’t danm the man, he said it would have been better if was never born.
32. If Judas was willing to go to Hell for humanity (see #31), didn’t he make more of a sacrifice than Jesus, who spent only three hours in pain? Shouldn’t we then be worshipping Judas?
A: Judas wasn’t willing to go hell. He choose too. Judas was a greedy man and in Mathew 26:14 “Then one of the twelve, called Judas Iscariot, went unto the chief priests, 15And said unto them, What will ye give me, and I will deliver him unto you? And they covenanted with him for thirty pieces of silver. 16And from that time he sought opportunity to betray him.” As well in Mark 14:10-11, Luke 22:3-6. Earlier when Jesus was anointed by perfume John 12:3 “Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odor of the ointment. 4Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, which should betray him, 5Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? 6This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein.” So we see the Judas was a greedy man and had his heart open to Satan to enter him and then betray Jesus.
So Judas choose to betray Jesus. No he made no sacrifice for humanity. If you want to worship a dead, stealing, betraying man, be my guest. I will worship the true living God. Out of all these other religions who’s savior died and rose again and is still alive other then Jesus Christ?????????????????????NO ONE. So I choose to worship the living God.
33. Why should we accept the words of the gospel writers as truth when they are known to be liars? (See Romans 3:7).
A: 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
So we may be sinners, but as the scripture states above……..Now I give you the task of trying to disprove any part of scripture. I’ll let you know you can’t do it. Countless have tried and failed, and in all honesty all who truly historically and scientifically study the scripture become Christians them selves, and become the great apologists of the Faith.
34. Do you believe that your god is anti-homosexual? If so, explain why he would create homosexuals in the first place. If not, refute or explain away Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:26-27.
A: My God is anti-SIN! So anything that is sin, he is against. And as we discussed earlier in question #22 about sex, any type of sexual impurity, fornication is considered sin. Sex is meant for 1 man and 1 women in a committed relationship. Statistics done by both secular and Christians show that the people who have the best sex life are 1 man and 1 women in a committed marriage relationship. As well kids do best being raised by a man and woman who are committed and married to each other. God didn’t create homosexuals. He created man and woman. Men and women choose to fornicate based on their belief system of what is good for them and what is right for them. I’ve heard homosexuals say there is something in their brain that forces them to be the way. There is no scientific proof or evidence to back up these claims. But God loves them and so do I. I don’t love what they stand for or what they do, but I do love them. One of my closest friends is gay, so I don’t judge him but I do stand up and say what he does is wrong based on what God says. Now any man and women who fornicate outside of marriage sin just as much as any homosexual couple.
35. Explain why prayer is OK, but spell casting is not, when both amount to the same thing: requesting that a superior supernatural force to intercede in a way that would be impossible according to the normally accepted laws of physics.
A: When I pray, I pray to God the creator who is worthy of prayers. Witches and wizards, scorers use demons to do their bidding while I do my Fathers bidding. Out of the 10 commandments: #1 Having a different god other then The Lord God, and #2 making graving images, is a huge part of sorcery and witch craft. They worship Satan and do his bidding. Plus scripture has not good things to say about being a witch, wizard, a sorcerer.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
So you can continue to do such things and not go to heaven but I choose to rely on God and not myself or the devil.
36. According to the Gospels, from the Christian standpoint, Jesus was the most important person to ever live. From the Roman standpoint, Jesus was a huge pain in the ass because of his political activities. Explain why nothing was written about his life for over thirty years after his death, and nothing except the Gospels was written until the third century CE.
A: First every thing written in the bible was written before the end of the first century. Paul wrote lots of the epistles with in 20 years after the ascension of Christ. I’m sure things were written down from Christ’s life as they were happening but all the stuff in what we have now known as the bible was completed before the end of the first century (50-100AD). But the people who wrote the gospels had eye witnesses accounts of all the things Jesus did and said. If you want to learn more about this I strongly urge you to read “The new evidence that demands a verdict” by Josh Mcdowell.
37. Explain why you believe a person whose life is so poorly documented (see #36) was even ever born.
A: Jesus life is one of the most documented lives in the history of mankind. Its documented a lot better then yours or my life. One example is an Roman historian who is claimed to be one of the greatest Roman historians. Cornelius Tacitus (55AD-120AD). He alludes to the death of Christ and to the existence of Christians at Rome. His misspelling of Christ “Christus” was a common error made by pagan writers. This is just one man who wrote about Christ. To say his life wasn’t documented well just is ignorant to the historical evidence that is out there.
38. Define the word “Christ,” including references to the pagan origins and meaning of the word.
A: Christ means “Yahweh saves, the anointed one.” I don’t know the words pagan roots.
39. Explain why Jesus, who was anti-Gentile (see Mark 7:25-29) and anti-sex (see Luke 14:26 and Matthew 19:12), would want to be anointed with oil in a pagan sexual rite after his death (see your definition for #38).
A: Jesus was anti-sin. You keep on saying how the bible is anti this and anti that. Learn about the context of the verses. Learn about what Jesus actually says and how he lived and died and rose again. Jesus loved the unclean and proved it over and over again.
40. In light of Matthew 10:34, explain why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace.
A: One of the fruit of the Spirit is peace. There a supernatural peace God gives us when we are born again that no matter what’s going on in life we can be at peace and not worry or fret what’s going to happen, and the world is to know us by our fruit so this is one reason why he is called the prince of peace. Mathew 10:34 in context, Jesus is talking about how if anyone will not give up full control and make Jesus their Lord and Savior is not worthy of him and can’t be a disciple. Like I said before, many are called but few are chosen.
41. The name “Jesus” has been anglicized. What was the original (Hebrew) name of Jesus? Where did you get this information? This is a bonus question.
A: Yahshua From the internet
42. Why is it that the life of Jesus was so similar to the lives of pagan Christs, particularly Herakles, Dionysios, and Asklepios?
A: I don’t know anything of those pagan christs. But I’ll look into one day.
43. If your god requires that people believe in him and follow his orders through their own free will, why do Christians push their views on public policy?
A: Well, not all politicians who claim to be Christian are. Next we have a duty to take care of this world and we want to live in a moral godly nation (I’m Canadian). So when things like abortion, same sex marriage among the top debates, occur we are going to stand up for what is right and let our voices be heard. And with listening to a lot of the news about what going on in the states right now with the elections (Its Nov 05/06) it’s the media who is clearly pushing their views on the public. Its about being pluralistic says the media. If you have morals and certain views that fine for you but don’t push them on us cause if you don’t believe that you have your views and I have mine and in the end everyone is right in doing what is right for them well then you’re wrong. Which is what pluralism is all about. But if you don’t believe in pluralism you’re wrong therefore contradicting pluralism. It is a self defeating view of life.
44. Explain why being a good Christian requires you to push your beliefs on others. If you do not believe that you have to push your views on others (no matter how much this annoys them), explain why you do not believe this despite the fact that the New Testament seems to suggest that you must do this to get to Heaven (for instance, in Matthew 28:19-20).
A: Well a good Christian doesn’t push his beliefs on anyone. He shows love to all and demonstrates what it means to be a Christian. We are told the share the gospel (gospel means good news) with all because God and Christians want all to know the truth as early as possible so they can fulfill their purpose here on earth and live in eternity. And you don’t have to do this to get into heaven. You need to repent and accept Jesus as your Savior and Lord. But we are commanded to share the good news and make disciples of these people and if we don’t well then that could be a sin of omission.
45. Explain why spreading the “truth of Christ” requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Wiccans (so-called “white witches”) worship the Christian devil. (Incidentally, they don’t, and this rumor has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE).
A: Well one of God’s commandments is that you shouldn’t lie. So anyone who is saying lies about another religion is sinning. But according to the Bible, when you choose to reject Christ you are embracing your sinful nature and are worshiping something other then God. Where your heart is, there will your treasure be. So if money, power, fame, and so on is what you pursue and all you think about, well then that is your God, cause you are worshiping those things. And indirectly Christians would say that in the end you are worshiping the Devil. Cause he is the ruler of this earth, and all that you worship here on earth is under his domain therefore you are worshiping him. And with regards to Wiccans, where do you think they get their power from? When they talk to spirits and get information from them, who are those spirits, how do they know which ones are good ones or bad ones? What do they have to base their answers on with regards
Comment by Russell — 7 November, 2006 #
I have come across Junaman previously, and i have notest that all he ever posts is bullshit and it shits me. But that aside, even if all these sarcastic comments mean somthing, what does it matter, if cristianity brings peace and happyness i am with it.
Comment by Peter (Australia) — 7 November, 2006 #
45. Explain why spreading the “truth of Christ” requires you to spread lies about other religions, such as the idea that Wiccans (so-called “white witches”) worship the Christian devil. (Incidentally, they don’t, and this rumor has been persistently spread by Christians since the second century CE).
A: Well one of God’s commandments is that you shouldn’t lie. So anyone who is saying lies about another religion is sinning. But according to the Bible, when you choose to reject Christ you are embracing your sinful nature and are worshiping something other then God. Where your heart is, there will your treasure be. So if money, power, fame, and so on is what you pursue and all you think about, well then that is your God, cause you are worshiping those things. And indirectly Christians would say that in the end you are worshiping the Devil. Cause he is the ruler of this earth, and all that you worship here on earth is under his domain therefore you are worshiping him. And with regards to Wiccans, where do you think they get their power from? When they talk to spirits and get information from them, who are those spirits, how do they know which ones are good ones or bad ones? What do they have to base their answers on with regards to good and bad spirits. Everything I can challenge it against the word of God and discern what is right and what is wrong by the Holy Spirit indwelling in me as well as Gods word. Doesn’t mean I always choose to do what is right, I haven’t I am a sinner just like everyone else. I just have come to the realization that I’ll never be good enough to satisfy Gods perfection. That is why I and everyone else needs Jesus. He is the bridge between humanity and God.
46. At no point in the four Gospels did Jesus claim to be the son of your god. (He said “son of man” quite frequently, and at one point referred to himself as “a son of god,” but that was a common Hebrew expression at the time. Someone who was “a son of god” was a Jew. This reflected the Israelites’ belief that they were the chosen people of your god. See Job 1:6). Why, then, do you believe that Jesus was divine? If you don’t believe that Jesus was divine, then why do you call yourself a Christian?
A: Why do people keep on saying this? He says it all the time just not in the way you or the people wanted him to. Jesus says it in all the gospels and through out the New testament but because I don’t have the time to find them all, I’m just going to go through the gospel of John. And every time Jesus refers to himself as the “Son of man” it is a reference to Daniel 7:13 “I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him”, stating that he is the Son of God. And he says also in the gospels he is the son of God. I’m reading John right now and I’ve seen it many times. John 3:35-36
-John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Jesus is called the “word” made flesh {John 1:14}
-John 2:16 “And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise.” Jesus referring to the temple of God as his Fathers house. Father is capitalized showing that he is talking about God his Father.
-John 3:13 “And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
-John 4:14 “But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (25)The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. (26) Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he. “
Ok it doesn’t get any clearer than that. I AM HE. I’m not even going to go on any more, but there are more examples but I don’t need to.
47. Given the fact that Jesus did not say anything original (the Golden Rule and the “turn the other cheek” idea were stolen from Buddhism; and the Beatitudes were common in the Jewish devotional literature at the time), why do you see Jesus as such a great thinker/philosopher/ethicist?
A: Well if you read the beatitudes, the Jews knew the Law but Jesus took it a step farther, he took it to the heart of man. See the Pharisees were great at keeping the law on the outside but their hearts were wicked and evil and God is concerned with our heart and our motive for doing things. So when Jesus says “Mathew 5:27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.” It blew the people away then as it does now still. He does this with all the beatitudes. Jesus talk about every day life, and how to live according to the word of God. How to walk in a proper relationship with him. The end times, how to treat people, he spoke many original things. Read the gospels and you would see that.
Now all rules for living have been taken from the 10 commandments so Buddhists first took it from the Jews.
I see Jesus as perfect, as God, I mean no one human has had a bigger impact on humanity then Jesus Christ. Not to mention that I count 44 prophecies that were fulfilled in Jesus being the Messiah, the Christ and coming at the exact time he did and doing all that was prophesized since the beginning of time with 100% accuracy (Daniel 9:20-27 Plus many, many more). Tell me what religion dares to prophecy the future with 100% accuracy and proves it? No one other then Christianity. And hundreds of prophecy have come to pass just as the bible says it would and more then half the prophecies made have come to pass so far. If you want I will get you the scripture references on that, but any decent study bible will show you all the prophecies that were made and how and when they were fulfilled.
48. When Jesus said, “Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also,” why do you suppose that most Christians fight for their rights? To put it another way, why don’t we, as a country of 85% Christians, let the government abuse us?
A: You need to understand the context of the passage. Jesus says that the person who hits you on the right cheek, that’s important to know because when someone would slap you, they would use the back of their right hand therefore hitting your right cheek. It was a way of insulting the person. So Jesus is saying turn the other cheek and let them slap you with the front of the hand. No Jew would do that as an insult, they would punch you before slapping you with the inside part of their hand. So Jesus is saying, let them insult you if they want, love one them. People have taken this scripture to mean that no Christian should ever fight, look at what Jesus said, that’s bull crap. If someone is trying to kill me, I’m going to defend my self how ever I can. We fight for what is right, not our rights, at least me. And the US is not an 85% Christian nation. People may say that they are Christians because that’s how they grew up. But I have clearly defined what a Christian is. But just once more, some one who is a follower of Jesus Christ. Someone who has acknowledge their sin and repented of it and has made Jesus Christ both their LORD and Savior.
49. Why are so many Christian holidays on the same day as Pagan holidays? Couldn’t the early Church fathers have converted pagans only by appealing to their reason and/or faith if Christianity is the true religion?
A: Well Emperor Constantine back in the early 4th century fully legalized Christianity and wanted all the pagans to convert to Christianity and thought it would be a good idea to celebrate the birth of Christ when the pagans celebrate their festival at winter time. And Easter Constantine thought it was great to celebrate Jesus death and resurrection at the spring festival of the pagans. I won’t go into the details of the festivals cause its not important. I believe true believers did exactly that, appeal to their reason and preach them the gospel.
50. Explain how your god can be “just and merciful” in light of Exodus 20:5.
A: Answered that way back at question #13.
51. Do you believe that the Old Testament should be accepted as part of Christian theology? If so, explain how you can worship such a cruel, sadistic asshole (see Numbers 31:17-18, Deuteronomy 20:16, Proverbs 20:30, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 13:8, Psalms 3:7, Psalms 52:5, etc.); if not, explain how you can believe that Jesus is the promised savior sent by your god without the messianic prophecies and the ruling rights of the line of David, both of which are in the Old Testament in books such as Isaiah, Zechariah, Daniel, Psalms, etc. (as opposed to, say, believing that Jesus was an irritating nut wandering around saying things that people didn’t like much).
A: Yes! Its our roots back to the beginning of creation. Part 2 is answered back in question #6 & #13.
52. Explain why your “just and merciful” god sent bears to kill forty-two children who called his prophet Elisha “baldhead.” (See 2 Kings 2:23-24).
A: I wonder why you keep on asking the same question, just different situations. Refer to #13. But as well in this situation VS 22 Bald Head was a taunt of scorn (Isaiah 3:17,24). These children were older youths of responsible age who were actually blaspheming God by casting doubt upon Elisha’s report of the “going up” of Elijah. Therefore, both God and His newly designated prophet were to be vindicated so proper respect might be shown. Plus this is before Jesus came, there was a lot more death among all people.
53. If prostitution is wrong, why are there so many examples of it in Genesis? (For instance, Gen 19:8, where Lot offers his daughters to a mob so that his guests can avoid gang rape).
A: Was Lot right in doing what he did. NO! He wasn’t even supposed to be in Sodom and Gomorrah and because the angels were holy he thought that would be the only to appease the mob. The Bible is an accurate account of what happen, but it clearly states its self on sexual immorality like prostitution that it is wrong.
54. What is the sin that people committed that is so incredibly bad that your god had to become flesh and die to correct?
A: Well disobedience was the first sin to occur. But any sin is good enough to keep us out of relationship with God. Sin = death. Sin is sin, this is why Jesus came to be the atonement for all of our sins from the beginning of time to the end of time. So that we can be restored in our relationship with God.
55. Are all members of other faiths bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.
A: Define bad! Are there good people out there that are not Christians, you bet, you who wrote all of these questions is probably a pretty good person who is just frustrated with all the fake Christians out there, I am too. Scripture first
-John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
-John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
-Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
- Romans 3:10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
-Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
-1 Timothy 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
56. Are all atheists/agnostics/humanists bad? Are they all damned to Hell? Justify your answer with quotes from the Bible.
A: Exact same answer to #55
57. What was your motive in proselytizing to me?
A: Sharing truth with you. You took the time to write all these questions, so you should get good detailed truthful answers. So that you can make an informed choice with the proper information so you can see the picture as clear as you can. One motto I’ve heard that works is this. You’ve tried the world and in all honesty where has it gotten you? Try whole heartedly Christianity and if you don’t like it, you can always go back to the world.
58. Where is Heaven?
A: Well in the bible it talks about 3 Heavens, our atmosphere, space and then where God resides. I can’t give you an accurate answer cause I’ve never been there.
59. Where is Hell?
A: I can’t give you an accurate answer cause I’ve never been there.
60. Why don’t animals go to heaven or hell when they die? What makes us so special?
A: Who says they don’t? I mean in Revelations Jesus comes out of heaven on a white horse. As I wrote way back life is our flesh, (the dust of the earth) combined with the breath of God. We have a mind where we contemplate life, have free will to choose to accept Christ or reject him Animals do not. Are there animals in heaven I wouldn’t see why not. Are there animals in hell? I wouldn’t think so, remember hell was created for Satan and his Demons.
61. Why does Satan try to get peoples’ souls?
A: 1 Peter 5:8 “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:” Because the Devil lost the battle in heaven and was cast down to earth he is extremely mad and upset with God and wants to do all that he can to keep his children from going to heaven. Cause what makes a Father more angry and sad then harming one of his children? I can’t think of anything can you? And if you can, well then you don’t have any kids. But he does not have their soul.
62. Once Satan has someone’s soul, what does he do with it?
A: Revelations 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
So in the end Satan and all who aren’t found in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire to be separated from God for eternity.
63. Is your god perfect? Justify your answer.
A: Yes.
-Mathew 5: 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. -1 Peter 1: 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
-Romans 12: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
-James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
-1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
-Revelations 5:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
It is us humans who are imperfect and I’ve quoted it a few times already but here we go again Romans 3:10 “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: (23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Other then Jesus of course for he is God and God is perfect. Our finite minds can’t comprehend all of the greatness of God or his perfections. Try to think about how big the universe is. Scientists have recently said they can’t count all the stars out in space. How ever vast space is, well that is something God created. So if we can’t fully comprehend one of his creations, how are we going to comprehend him?
64. Where does our soul stay while we are alive?
A: Well as is said before our soul is our mind/will/emotions and that’s always with us. Our spirit is what I assume you are asking go. Well it stays with us as well but can be used in the spiritual realm by either God and his angels or Satan and his Demons. Witches do astral projection with their spirit for example.
65. Explain how you can believe in Satan when your faith is directly descended from the Jewish faith, when the Jews did not even believe in Satan until they absorbed the Egyptian god Set while they were captives in Egypt.
A: Well scripture speaks of the devil in the opening book, but because Moses wrote the first 5 books I’m not sure when the Jews believed in Satan and his existence. Plus I see good and evil all day long. And since God is good and perfect, there has to be something wicked and evil in this world to see all that goes on, on a daily basis.
66. Why do evil people often prosper? Justify your answer.
A: Prosper how? Financially? Well if I steal 1 million dollars I’m now rich and have prospered. When your willing to do what ever it takes to prosper how ever you define the word, you get what you want because you don’t care what you do to get it, which usually involves doing evil things. But you reap what you sow. This is where God’s justice comes into play. There are numerous stories of evil people prospering in finances, power, but it comes back around and a lot of these people get killed. Think of drug dealers, mob guys, Hitler even; and so on.
67. Why do good people so often fail to prosper? Justify your answer.
A: Once again what do you define as prospering? In order to live for true greatness and not success we have a few things we need to live for to be truly great and fulfilled. It’s the golden rule! Love God with all your body, soul & spirit, and love others as you would want to be loved. Next have a humble, grateful/thankful, giving, serving heart. People who live after these principles are the most prosperous people who feel loved, never ending joy, satisfaction and are truly great. Because its not about them, its about fulfilling our purpose for being hear on earth. And scientists agree that anything that was created has a purpose. And since we were created, we have a purpose given to us by God and those who fulfill it are the ones who truly prosper.
68. When the end of the world comes, will your god raise our actual bodies, or just our souls? Explain.
A: We will have glorified bodies like the one Christ has. Refer as well to answer #2
69. Explain why your god lets airplanes with sinless infants on board crash.
A: I’ve already talked about this. Just because evil exists in the world doesn’t mean God can’t exist. As well with our finite minds we can’t fully understand God or the decisions he makes and the things he allows man to do. Scripture says Romans 1:24 “Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves:” So when man chooses to do evil God allows them to do it unless he intervenes. And who are we to judge God on the choices he makes. We are nothing compared to him. We are worth less then $1 in materials and have His breath in us that sustains us. We are at his mercy. And I have my security in that my days are already numbered and he is in control. And he has shown himself faithful to me and has protected me countless number of times.
70. What is sin, exactly?
A: Disobedience/transgression of God’s law and commandments which separate us from God.
71. If Jesus is perfect, justify the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 21:17-19, Mark 11:14-20).
A: I have no idea how you think Jesus isn’t perfect because of that parable. But I will explain the parable for you. Now when you see a fruit tree if it has leaves, well then there is fruit underneath. But this fig tree had no fruit therefore he cursed it. Translation – People who pretend to be Christians have no fruit and they are cursed. For scripture says the world will know us by our fruit. You don’t go up to an orange tree and eat an orange and say hey that must be an orange tree. You see that it has oranges and you say hey that must be an orange tree and then you go and eat there of. So same with Christians, take a look at the persons fruit who claims to be a follower of Christ.
72. Explain why Christians have harassed Wiccans (”white witches”) for almost two thousand years now, when the central rule of the Wiccan ethical system is “an it harm no one, do what thou wilt.”
A: Well I don’t know the whole history of this situation. Obviously there were witch hunts that took place and these people accused ended up being killed by these bigoted, self righteous men and women. And it’s a shame. I don’t believe any one should be murdered. Killed is a different story and I don’t know where I draw the line yet (killing someone by accident in self defense, situations like that). So Wiccans a.k.a. Witches practice witchcraft, which is condemned by the bible cause they practice ungodly things. Sexual fornication is a big part of Wiccan culture, so is calling up spirits (mediums) which is condemned, worship of other Gods and idols, and so on.
73. Explain why Christians (yes, that includes all branches of Christianity) have spread the lie that Jews put Jesus to death when, in actuality, it was the Romans who put Jesus to death. (For a good example of New Testament anti-semetism, see 1 Thessalonians 2:15).
A: True the Romans crucified him, but it was the Jews who conspired to kill him. Pilate a Roman desperately tried to not have Jesus killed but the Jews persisted. Luke 22:2 “And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.” And it was the Jews who yelled out crucify him and because Pilot feared the people and didn’t want to have riots he gave into their demands to kill him. Luke 23:13And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people, 14Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him: 15No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him. 16I will therefore chastise him, and release him. 17(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.) 18And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas: 19(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.) 20Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them. 21But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. 22And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go. 23And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed. 24And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
74. Explain why your god created humans as imperfect, then set his standards so high that no one could possibly live up to them, then punishes us for not living up to his standards. Doesn’t this also constitute “entrapment?”
A: God created us with free will. We were as perfect as we could be with free will. But because we choose to disobey and allow sin into the world by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. God gave us his 10 commandments so that we may know what is sin and unlawful to do. The standards are set so high because God is perfect and we realize that we aren’t, we can never measure up to his Standards. That is why Jesus came so that we could once again be in relationship with him. Christianity is the one religion that you don’t get into heaven by your good works cause no one is good enough. We get in by our faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. People are judged according to their deeds which is God’s justice. But when we repent and turn toward Jesus, our records of wrong are wiped clean as if we have never sinned. Sounds like a pretty awesome free gift to me. And no to entrapment.
75. If we are created in your god’s image and likeness (Gen 1:27), how can we also be imperfect?
A: We are created in Gods “image and likeness.” We aren’t gods like him. Think of when a picture is taken of you, its clear, you can see yourself, but it isn’t a exact perfect reflection of you, it misses out on some of the detail. Well the same as us, we aren’t created to be God though many have tried to be one. Like Satan, and that is why he was kicked out. Well we sinned and Satan and his clan was still around and God set up the lake of fire to destroy all evil once and for all. At that time all things will be perfect. And no I can’t fully comprehend that and it blows my mind away to think about, but that doesn’t mean that it’s not going to happen. So far the bible hasn’t been proven one bit incorrect and has had hundreds of prophecies fulfilled and is being proved more and more as we go on in time.
76. Why was it OK for the ancient Israelites to sacrifice animals to their god, while it is wrong for modern religions to sacrifice animals to their gods? Justify your answer.
A: Before Christ atonement had to made for the Israelites sins and the shedding of life for life was how they did it. Well Jesus was the final atonement/sacrifice of innocent blood that ever had to be done, therefore there was or is no longer the need to shed an animals blood for the atonement of sin. Why do other religions sacrifice to their Gods? To appease them, to gain favor?
77. Why would your god confuse people? (See 1 Sam 7:10 and Gen 11:9). Isn’t life confusing enough already?
A: Well in Genesis 11:4 “And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. 5And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. 6And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. 7Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
So we see that the people wanted to be their own god by reaching the heavens; they were acting in pride and God didn’t want them to be their own god, he is God alone. We also see a few other things from this passage, when man becomes united, look at what they can do. As well if you think about it, how did we get all of the worlds languages? It makes sense to me that it was God who did this.
Now in 1 Samuel 7:10, the Philistines were coming to attack, kill and destroy the Israelites and since God was there God, he chooses to protect them in this situation so that they can overcome their enemies.
So when people choose to reject God and are acting on behalf of them selves, if its going to hurt his children he will at times confuse people so they can’t fulfill what they wanted to do.
78. Why would your god cause blindness, deafness, and dumbness? (See Ex 4:11)
A: I don’t know, ask him. I’m not God, nor can I nor anyone understand why he does what he does. Who am I his creation to judge my creator?
79. Why would your god want to damn people by making them believe false things? (See 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).
A: Context, context, context. If you read from the beginning of the chapter you will know Paul is writing about the end times and the anti-Christ. I’ll get my point across though from vs 10.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 And by unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing (going to perdition) because they did not welcome the Truth but refused to love it that they might be saved. 11Therefore God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false, 12In order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe in [who refused to adhere to, trust in, and rely on] the Truth, but [instead] took pleasure in unrighteousness.
So in vs 10 we see that these people already made their choice “did not welcome the truth but refused to love it that they might be saved.” Because they made their choice and are doing evil things and “took pleasure in unrighteousness,” God sends upon them a misleading influence, so that they can’t carry out the evil ones work. Therefore less harm and damage will come upon those who choose to believe the truth and follow Jesus Christ.
80. Should the book of Revelation be taken literally? Explain your answer.
A: Yes! It’s about what will happen in the end times, and already a lot of it has taken place. Now there is a lot of symbolism and other things that are written down, but when you have an understanding of what it all means, it becomes quiet clear. In goes hand in hand with the book of Daniel, and part of Mathew when Jesus talks about what is going to happen in the end times.
81. Would it be good for men to castrate themselves? Justify your answer, taking Matthew 19:12 into account.
A: Are you frigging kidding me? Obviously not. How else would mankind keep on going. Jesus is just saying some have the gift of celibacy and should stay celibate because it is a gift from God. Paul was celibate and look at what he did for God. But God also says it’s not good for man to be alone. So God gives the gift that of celibacy but also of that one should be married and have a family.
82. What exactly is faith?
A: Faith has both an active and a passive sense in the Bible. The former meaning relates to ones loyalty to a person or fidelity to a promise; the latter confidence in the word or assurance of another. Faith is not merely what a person believes, i.e., accurate doctrine or creed, but also and more importantly, that the object of his faith is valid. A mans life is governed by his thoughts; he will ultimately become that which he dwells most upon in his mind. This is the reason for Paul’s instruction to the Romans 12:2 “And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” Having faith is also believing something is there are going to work though you can’t 100% see it or understand it. When I get in my car in the morning I have faith its going to start and get me to work. Even though I don’t know how everything works or can see every moving part I know enough information and have enough experience with my car that when I turn the key, its going to start. Just cause I can’t see gravity, I have enough knowledge and experience with it to know that it exists. Same with God! I have enough historical, scientific and personal experience to know he exists though I can’t see him.
83. All of the various Christian sects ignore parts of the Bible, usually because those parts of the Bible are inconvenient. Explain which parts of the Bible your sect ignores, and explain why it is OK to ignore those parts of the Bible.
A: I don’t ignore any part of the bible, I’ve read it all. 2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”
Before you make claims that ALL “x” believe this or that, you should do your research a bit better. A good way to avoid that would be to say “in general” “x” believe this or that. But you make your self look ignorant and stupid when you spread lies about things you don’t fully know or understand.
84. Why did your god allow Satan to do evil things to Job (Job 2:7 etc.)? Wouldn’t your god better spend his time punishing unbelievers?
A: Well since Satan’s sin with pride, because he wanted to be God, throughout time God has told Satan about his people and let Satan do what God allowed him to do to his people for a few reasons. One to show that no matter what Satan tries to do, God wins in the end and will be worshiped and glorified (that is what Satan wants, to be worshiped and glorified. He counterfeits everything that God does, cause Satan is the one who is unoriginal). Look at Jesus. Satan new he was coming and he tried to kill him as a baby by having King Herod kill all the male born babies of Jesus time. He tempted Jesus in the desert for 40 days with out success. Then finally Jesus was crucified, and Satan thought he had one. But Jesus rose from the dead (with tons of evidence to show that mind you) and God one and Satan lost. Because of that one act we all now have the opportunity to be saved and in a personal relationship with God. There are thousands of stories out there of bad things happening to good people and the result of it was people came to Christ.
Summary, to continually humble Satan, show him he loses in the end and to bring people to Christ and that God may be worshiped and glorified. Those are the main reasons I can think of.
85. If Jesus and his father are one (John 10:30), then why does Jesus have to pray (i.e. Matthew 26:39)?
A: Prayer is about talking with your creator, building that relationship with him. And while Jesus was on earth he demonstrated how we should pray and talk with God. So those passages he is demonstrating that he is walking in the Will of the Father.
86. Explain your belief in heaven in light of Job 7:9 and Ecclesiastes 9:5.
A: Job 7:9 “As the cloud is consumed and vanishes away, so he who goes down to Sheol (the place of the dead) shall come up no more.” I talked about this in question #2 some what. But when you die you are asleep, you aren’t wondering the earth in spirit form. So people who say they talk to their dead relatives or friends, well those are most likely demons macerating as their family and friends.
87. Christ giving himself up on the cross was a great gesture, true, but wouldn’t it have been more sensible for him to continue spreading his message until he died a natural death? Answer this question in light of your answer to question #1.
A: No! Because Jesus said himself John 16:7 “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:”
Because when you receive Christ as your Lord and Savior John 20:22 ”And having said this, He breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit!” You have Christ living inside you. While Jesus is was just one man, though he was God, when he left, then came the Comforter/Holy Spirit. And every believer has Jesus inside them now teaching them how they should live life and fulfill their purpose. That is why there is the Holy Trinity, God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Though they are separate, they are one. Think of it like this 1×1x1=1
88. What is your interpretation of the temptation of Christ by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9)?
A: Well Satan new why Jesus was here, and if he could get him to sin well then Jesus wouldn’t have fulfilled his purpose. Jesus did what Adam was supposed to do but didn’t, in the sense that Adam was to never sin. That is also why Jesus is referred to as the Son of man, cause he is a descendent of Adam as well through Mary his mother.
89. In view of Matthew 6:5-6, shouldn’t prayer in public schools be discouraged? Support your answer with scripture quotes.
A: Prayer as we discussed before is talking with God. When we pray as well we demonstrate our need for God. Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.” So when I was in school I sure needed God, and every day of my life I need God. In Matthew 6:5-6 Jesus was saying how the Pharisees pray out loud so everyone would think how holy and godly they were hence the reference to them being hypocrites. It’s all about our heart and motives for the things we do. So Jesus was saying don’t things to be seen by men but do them cause it is the right thing to do and let God give you the reward.
90. Do you feel that the last words of Christ were significant? If so, why do the four gospels attribute three different sentences to Christ as his last? (Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34: “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?”; Luke 23:46: “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit”; John 19:30: “It is finished”).
A: Actually those aren’t his last words. Mathew 28:18 “Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.” Mark 16:18, Luke 24:49, John 21:23, Acts 1:8. And all things that are in the scripture with regards to what Jesus said, I do believe is significant.
91. Matthew and Mark say that the last words of Christ were, in Hebrew, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” This has traditionally been translated as, “My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?” However, a more accurate translation would be, “My El, My El, why has thou forsaken me?” El is the name of a specific pagan god. Why would Jesus call out to a pagan god at the moment of his death?
A: Well as I stated before those weren’t his last words. But I don’t know the Greek/Hebrew well enough to properly know what Christ said. But there are scholars out there who will tell you, and Jesus wouldn’t cried out to a pagan god. For that we go against everything he said and taught. Plus God raised him from the dead, if he shout out to a pagan god he would have sinned and since God did raise him, it shows that he didn’t.
92. A commonly recited litany in many forms of Christianity is “The LORD is my shepherd.” (Psalm 23:1). Given the fact that the only reasons that people raise sheep are to rob them of their clothes and to kill them for meat, and the fact that sheep will often follow the shepherd to their destruction, do you think that this is any appropriate image for your god? Justify your answer.
A: A more appropriate way of looking at this symbolism is this. Sheep are some of the most stupid/dumb, animals out there, and they need to be lead what to do and where to go, and if one escapes the Shepard leaves the flock to go after the one stray so that it may come back to its community. We in all honesty aren’t that intelligent, and Jesus looks after his sheep, and when one of us goes astray (or are astray already) he comes after us. He first choose us, so its up to you weather you want to come to his community or stay out in the wilderness where wolves are every where, ready to kill you.
93. Why is the theory of the big bang any more (or less) likely that the idea that your god created the universe? Justify your answer. NOTE: I admit that science has not explained where the original supercondensed particle came from, but no one has ever explained where your god came from, either.
A: It would take a whole paper to write on this subject and many Christian scientists have written of this and have shown that as we advance in our scientific capealbility/understanding it shows how the earth can only have been made by intelligent design. Here is the Cosmological argument:
The Cosmological argument:
Premise 1. Whatever begins to exist must have a cause.
Premise 2. The Universe began to exist.
Conclusion: Therefore the Universe has a cause, and God exists.1
Whatever begins to exist must have a cause. Most of us have no problem accepting this principle. We assume its truth in virtually every aspect in our daily lives. Our experience always confirms it and never denies it. But surprisingly philosophers have been unable to prove its veracity.
Nevertheless, it has always been a fundamental first principle of philosophy and science that “from nothing, nothing comes”, “being cannot come from non-being”. Even the great skeptic David Hume, who argued that we could not prove the causal principle through ordinary means, still believed it to be true and thought a denial of it was absurd, “I never asserted so absurd a proposition that anything might arise without a cause.”2
Surely it is more reasonable to hold to this premise than to believe that things pop into existence out of nothing and by nothing. Can we reasonably disagree with the atheist Kai Neilson when he writes, “Suppose you suddenly hear a loud bang and you ask me, ‘What made that bang?’ and I reply ‘Nothing, it just happened.’ You would not accept that – in fact you would find my reply quite unintelligible.”3
Scientific Confirmation
Regarding premise number two, we have both scientific confirmation and logical argument for the Universe having a beginning. According to the standard Big Bang expansion model, space, time, matter and energy all came into existence simultaneously around 12-15 Billion years ago. The beginning point is often called a singularity, the boundary of space and time, or a mathematical point, where our expanding universe was shrunk down to nothing at all. Significantly, it was not the result of prior natural, physical processes. The atheist philosopher, Quentin Smith, acknowledges, “It belongs analytically to the concept of the cosmological singularity that it is not the effect of prior physical events. The definition of a singularity…entails that it is impossible to extend the space-time manifold beyond the singularity. …This rules out the idea that the singularity is an effect of some prior natural process.”4
Furthermore, according to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, given enough time, the universe will eventually reach a state of equilibrium, a cold, dark, dead, virtually motionless universe. Clearly, if the universe is beginningless, then there has been an infinite length of time preceding this present moment. But obviously, there is still plenty of heat, light and movement left in the universe. Thus the past must be finite. The universe had a beginning.
Infinite Past Impossible
“The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite is solely that of an idea. – David Hilbert”
The third and strongest piece of support for the beginning of the universe comes from the impossibility of an infinite past. This is because an actual infinite number of anything cannot exist in the real world. But to have a universe with no beginning you would have to have an actual infinite number of past events. We might think that since we do use the concept of infinity in mathematics there would be no problem here.
But mathematicians who work with the concept of actual infinity, do so by adopting some arbitrary rules, like “the whole is not always greater than the part”, and “subtraction and division are not allowed”, to avoid the absurdities and contradictions that come with an actual infinite number of anything. And these rules don’t apply to the real world. Actual infinity only works in the abstract realm, and only with some special rules.
As David Hilbert, one of this century’s greatest mathematicians has written, “The infinite is nowhere to be found in reality. It neither exists in nature nor provides a legitimate basis for rational thought. The role that remains for the infinite…is solely that of an idea…”5
An Absurd Library
To see the absurdity and contradictions of an actual infinite number of things in the real world imagine or hypothesize your campus library having an infinite number of black books and an infinite number of green books, alternating colors on the shelves and numbered consecutively on the spines.
Does it make any sense to say that there are as many black books as there are black plus green books together? But that is what you would have to say if you want to claim the infinite is possible in the real world.
Suppose you withdrew all the green books. How many books are there left in the library? There would still be an infinite number of books in the library even though we just withdrew an infinite number and found a way to get them home! Suppose you withdrew the books numbered 4,5,6…and so on. Now how many books are left? THREE! Something surely is wrong here! One time we subtract an infinite number of books and we’re left with an infinite number; the next time we subtract an infinite number and we’re left with three – a clear logical contradiction. Since our hypothesis leads to a contradiction, the hypothesis must be false – a library with an actual infinite number of books cannot exist.
While we can avoid these contradictions in the mathematical realm by making up rules like you can’t subtract or divide when using infinity, we cannot in the real world prevent people from taking books out of libraries.
Therefore, since a beginningless past would be an actual infinite number of things (events) and since an actual infinite number of things cannot exist in the real world, it follows logically that the past is not infinite. The universe had a beginning.
Furthermore, an infinite past is impossible because adding one member after another cannot form an actual infinite. It’s like counting to infinity – you just never get there. Just like we can never finish counting to infinity, we can never begin to count down from a negative infinity. There is no first term. As the great skeptical philosopher David Hume admitted, “An infinite number of real parts of time passing in succession…appears so evident a contradiction that no man whose judgment is not corrupted… would ever be able to admit of it.”6
Thus the Big Bang Theory, the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the impossibility of an infinite past all support the universe having a beginning.
Since whatever begins to exist must have a cause, it follows logically that the universe has a cause. And since it cannot be the result of some prior natural process, the cause of the universe must be beyond nature.
Most Common Objection
“What caused God”
The question “What caused X?” only makes sense if there was some indication that “X” had a beginning. There is nothing that indicates that the cause of the Big Bang had a beginning. In fact since time did not exist beyond the Big Bang, the cause of the Big Bang must have existed timelessly. Thus it could have no beginning, and hence no cause. We may want to say this about the universe, but we can’t, since as we have seen, the evidence is the universe had a beginning.
Astrophysicists have been discovering that the Big Bang appears to have been incredibly fine-tuned. Stephen Hawking describes the situation,
“…the universe and the laws of physics seem to have been specifically designed for us. If any one of about 40 physical qualities had more than slightly different values, life as we know it could not exist: Either atoms would not be stable, or they wouldn’t combine into molecules, or the stars wouldn’t form the heavier elements, or the universe would collapse before life could develop, and so on…”7
The numerical values of the different natural forces like gravity, electromagnetism, subatomic forces, charges of electrons, etc. “just happened” to fall into an extremely narrow range that is conducive for life to exist. Minute changes in any one of these forces would have destroyed the possibility for life and in most cases destroyed the universe itself.
Consider these examples from among dozens:
1. The Proton/Electron Mass Ratio is 1836 to 1.
- Had it been slightly different, there would be no chemistry.
2. Yet the electrical charge of the proton and the electron are exactly equal numerically.
- Had they been fractionally different, hydrogen atoms would repel one another, and there would be no galaxies.
3. If the strong force (the force that binds protons and neutrons in the nucleus) was just
- 2% less, it would have destroyed all nuclei essential to life
- 2% more, it would have prevented the formation of protons and therefore matter
4. If the expansion rate of the universe was
-less by one part in a million million, the universe would have collapsed very early
-greater by one part in a million, galaxies, stars and planets would never have formed.
Chance or Design
If the Big Bang was merely a chance happening it is virtually impossible that the values of all of these 40-50 forces would have been exactly right to ensure the survival of the universe and to allow life. Given the potentially infinite number of other values these forces could have taken, it is much more likely that they would have fallen outside the very narrow range that is conducive to life. As John Leslie, the philosopher of science has put it, “Life prohibiting universes are much more probable than life permitting universes.” This is evidence of an intelligent designer behind the Big Bang who ensured that it happened in such a way that the universe could support life.
No wonder scientists like Dr. Paul Davies, internationally known author and professor of Theoretical Physics, has said this finding represents “the most compelling evidence for an element of cosmic design.”;8 and Dr. Robert Jastrow, Founder of NASA’s Institute of Space Studies, has called this “the most theistic result ever to come out of science.”9
Most Common Objection
“It is not surprising that we observe the initial conditions of the universe to be conducive to life because those are obviously the only conditions that could precede our existence.”
This is only the case if one assumes beforehand that our existence itself is not surprising. But our argument is that, given the potentially infinite number of non-life values the forces could have taken, it is extremely surprising that the entire scenario has taken place, i.e., the right initial conditions and the existence of observers. If one assumes that the second part is not surprising, then of course it follows that the first part is also not surprising. But that clearly begs the question.
Summary and Conclusion
Just like two cords wound together become a strong rope, so too the cumulative effect of these two arguments provide us with a powerful case for the existence of God.
Taken together these two arguments tell us that the cause and designer of the universe is an intelligent, immaterial, powerful, changeless being that existed in a timeless, eternal state beyond the beginning of the universe. This, I suggest, is close enough to the traditional Judeo-Christian concept of God that we can justifiably conclude that indeed, God does exist.
94. If your god is everywhere at the same time, and hell is the absence of (or separation from) your god, how can he be omnipresent?
A: Well in the book of Job we see this “Job 1:6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?”
Ok so Satan is having a discussion with God, but Satan is evil, how is this possible? Just because there are evil things out there doesn’t mean God can’t be in the presence of that thing. He himself is perfect and pure, and by being in the presence of something ungodly doesn’t mean he still isn’t perfect. With regards to hell is the absence of God, refer to my answer in question #2.
95. In the Genesis story, your god tells Adam and Eve that the day they eat from the tree of knowledge they will surely die (Gen 2:17). The devil tells them that they will not die, but that their eyes would be opened and they would know the difference between good and evil (Gen 3:5). Wasn’t Satan telling the truth here? Is your god a liar? Justify your answer in light of Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9.
A: Satan lied and told the truth. Their eyes were opened but they also died. My God is not a liar. He has never lied, try and prove it (have fun). In both Jeremiah 20:7 and Ezekiel 14:9 you need to read what is all going on. First the word “deceived” is actually translated as induced. Induced meaning that God gave the words to the prophet to speak against these wicked men who came to inquire of God, or came against Gods prophet.
96. If Lucifer is not as powerful as your god, then he cannot possibly be omnipresent. How could he possibly get as many followers as you seem to think he has?
A: Well when you don’t choose to be a follower of God, by default you choose Lucifer. It’s an either or choice. And not making a choice is still making a choice. Remember the only way to God is through Jesus, so if you don’t choose Christ you choose Lucifer.
97. The Bible constantly describes your god as male. In view of the fact that your god supposedly created everything, and creation is very much a female function, isn’t this at least a little bit absurd? Justify your answer.
A: Creation is much a male thing as female. With out one of the 2, there is nothing. God is Spirit and there is no male or female spirit. Both man and woman is in God and vice versa. I can’t fully comprehend it but no one can, and we won’t be able to till we are in heaven with God.
98. In light of the Trinity, angels, the Virgin Mary, etc., isn’t Christianity polytheistic? If the Trinity is three who are one, why the three names? Justify your answer.
A: The Trinity is God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), God the Holy Spirit. Remember my little 1×1x1=1 They each have certain functions but are 1. Angels aren’t god neither is Mary and after Jesus was born I’m sure she aint no virgin any more. Cause she was married for years before Joseph is out of the picture and Jesus had brothers. And scripture has tons of references that Jesus was God but at the same time Gods son. I mentioned a few of those back in question #46.
99. Have you read the entire Bible? If not, how can you be devoted enough to try and convert me to a religion that you don’t know that much about? Isn’t knowing as much as possible about something necessary to understanding it? Isn’t understanding something necessary to being completely devoted to it?
A: Yes.
100. Why is 2 Kings 19 exactly identical to Isaiah 37?
A: Well the first 17 books is about the history of Israel which Kings falls into. And Isaiah is part of the 17 books of prophecy that are in the Old Testament. Why does it matter?
101. Is Jesus’ three days in Hell really an ultimate sacrifice, when more than half of humanity going to spend eternity there (see question #11)?
A: What greater sacrifice is there then someone taking the punishment you deserve? By Jesus dieing for you, for me, for everyone, that is the ultimate sacrifice.
102. If your sect considers the King James Bible to be the official and/or authoritative translation, justify this in light of the fact that when King James commissioned his translation to be poetic rather than accurate. How can you possibly use an inaccurate translation as your reference for what is/is not the word of your god? If your sect does not use the King James Bible, what translation do they use? Justify the use of that particular translation.
A: What proof do you have that the King James is poetic and not accurate? The King James was put together by the top scholars of their day, which had copies over 25,000 manuscripts of the New Testament alone. 5,686 Greek, over 10,000 Latin and at least 9,300 others. No other document of antiquity even begins to approach such numbers and attestation. Homers “Iliad” is second, with only 643 manuscripts that still survive. The importance of the sheer number of manuscripts copies cannot be overstated. As with other documents of ancient literature, there are no known extant (currently existing) original manuscripts of the Bible. Fortunately, however, the abundance of manuscript copies makes it possible to reconstruct the original with 99.8% accuracy (proven). There is so much information on this topic out there that I’m not going to take the time to write it all out. But Josh McDowell’s book “The New evidence that demands a verdict” gives you 116 pages about the bible and it beyond a shadow of a doubt proves that what we have is accurate and hasn’t changed since it was first written (99.8%).
103. Assume that I do not believe that Jesus died for my sins, or that if he did, that necessarily means I will go to your heaven. Name one thing that Jesus ever did for me.
A: Just because you may or may not believe that Jesus died for your sins doesn’t mean you’ll go to heaven. I’ll say it again, to go to heaven you must realize
• You have sinned, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we all have broken Gods commandments.
• Recognize that Christ died on the cross for you. He died in your place because there was no other way for you to satisfy to righteous demands of a holy God you have offended.
• You need to repent of your sin. God has commanded us to repent and turn toward him.
• You need to receive Christ into your heart as savior and Lord.
• And you need to do it now! This is an either or proposition. To not say yes to Jesus is to say no to Jesus. Do you want to come to Jesus right now?
• Now that the person is converted they need to grow and stop sinning. Watch their fruit.
You can choose to believe that he died or didn’t die for you but I know he died for me and everyone else. That is one thing, but the most important thing that’s been done for you other then your creation.
104. Before Mary was knocked up by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, she was never asked for her consent. (She was warned; see Luke 1:31). Mary was also asleep when your god knocked her up; this strongly suggests that he didn’t want her to protest. Does this mean that Mary was raped by your god? Do you think rape is wrong? Explain.
A: Luke 1:38 “And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.” So before Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit, she consented to be the mother of Jesus. She still had the option to say no. She willfully accepted this great honor from God. She was not raped. Yes rape is wrong. When you rape someone you are going against their will and you are doing sexual fornication/immorality.
105. According to Luke, Mary knew that she was pregnant with the Messiah. Living in the times she lived in, she must have known the scripture; therefore, she must have known that he would have to suffer horribly during his life. Was it moral for Mary to carry her baby to term, or would it have been more humane for her to have an abortion? Explain.
A: Abortion means you take a life, MURDER. Your mom had you in her womb till term and then you came out. Was it moral for your mom to let you be born or should she have killed you? Which is more moral? Obviously letting you be born. But have you suffered while you have lived here on earth? Of course, we all have to a certain extent. But that doesn’t mean its immoral for you to be born. Plus Jesus just suffered for a few days. He was here for 30 years. He lived a good life and I’m more then grateful that he came and died for me.
106. If it was foretold that Jesus was to be crucified, and if he knew this, and if he was the son of your god, why did he do everything he could to avoid being crucified? (See, for instance, Matthew 26:39).
A: He didn’t. Mathew 26:39 “And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.” How did he do everything to avoid being crucified? (vs 38) “My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death” he cried out because he felt like he was dead already, but he said not his will but Gods. Jesus knew his purpose was to come and be the atonement for us. Mathew 26:54 “But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?” Jesus did not avoid it, he welcomed it. Read the gospels.
107. If the Holy Spirit/Ghost is the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35), then why is the central figure of your trinity called God the Father?
A: All 3 are the center of our faith. They are all God in 1. 3 in 1. 1×1x1=1
108. Mary and Jehovah were never joined in wedlock. Does it bother you that Jesus is technically a bastard?
A: Jesus wasn’t conceived sexually, but spiritually, therefore, technically he isn’t a bastard.
109. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn’t this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?
A: No, both man and woman are part of God. We can’t comprehend all that he is.
110. Matthew 28:11-15 contains an account of a conspiracy between the Jews and the Roman soldiers to spread the story that the disciples stole the body of Christ. How could Matthew have known about this, since no Jews or Romans would have admitted to it? If it was such a transparent conspiracy that an outsider could have seen it, why didn’t the other three gospels mention it? Why didn’t the Roman soldiers get into trouble?
A: Well he obviously wrote the book after all that was in it happened. I don’t know 100% how he learned of it, but he some how learned of it by someone. Some one leaked it.
111. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn’t this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn’t Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?
A: All the scriptures you quoted are from the Old Testament also known as the Torah for Jews. We all stand as sinners before a holy God. Romans 3:23 For we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:10 No one is good not even one. This doesn’t mean there aren’t good people out there, or do good things, what it means is that no one is good enough to satisfy God. He is holy and perfect and is required of the same as us. 1 Peter 1:16 Be holy as I am h
Comment by Russell — 7 November, 2006 #
111. Jews believe that people are basically good people and can work to overcome their sinful tendencies. Most Christian sects, following the teaching of Psalm 51:5, 1 Kings 8:46, Ezekiel 18:4, Isaiah 59:2, and Psalm 143:2, believe that people are completely debased and hopelessly lost in sin, and that only your god can lift us out of this state if he decides to bestow his gift of grace on us? Isn’t this an incredibly negative view of people? Isn’t Judaism a more mature faith just for this reason?
A: All the scriptures you quoted are from the Old Testament also known as the Torah for Jews. We all stand as sinners before a holy God. Romans 3:23 For we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 3:10 No one is good not even one. This doesn’t mean there aren’t good people out there, or do good things, what it means is that no one is good enough to satisfy God. He is holy and perfect and is required of the same as us. 1 Peter 1:16 Be holy as I am holy Hebrews 12:14 pursue holiness and peace. We recognize that none of us is as good as we are to be. No one is as good as God. So I don’t look at some one as a sinner though they are, just like me, I do my best to look at them and treat them with the love of God. Gods grace is always upon us but so is his justice. He chooses when to use one or the other.
What makes Judaism a more mature faith? What’s your definition of a mature faith? If you don’t remember in the Torah, all the Jews are waiting for their Messiah to come. He did, and there is not only 44 prophecies that I can count that shows this fulfillment but prophecies that were made about the future after the messiah comes have come to pass and I can prove that to.
112. How do you, as an individual, feel about Psalm 51:5?
A: Fine. David is talking about his sin that he committed with Bathsheba and is repenting before the Lord.
113. What does your sect teach about Psalm 51:5 (and 1 Kings 8:46, etc.), predestination, and similar matters?
A: Read 1 Kings 8:47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness; 48And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name: 49Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause, 50And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them: “
Solomon is saying be a just God to the men who sin, but if they repent show your mercy, which is God’s theme through out the Old and New Testament. When you sin you’ll be judged according to that sin, but if you repent, God will show his mercy and wipe your slate clean.
114. Don’t you think that the idea that no matter what we do, we can never be good and righteous without help from your god (Isaiah 64:6) fosters an unnatural and unhealthy dependency on him?
A: No. What do you depend on? At the core of our nature, we are evil beings. Go ahead depend on your money, your looks, your power, its all vanity. Think of all the stars out there who people think they have it all together, but then they have OD’s, they go to jail for stupid crap, they them selves admit time and time again something is missing. Rely on yourself for every thing, see what happens, I’ve tried and I was a lonely man. I will do my best to rely 100% on my Lord and Savior, you choose to rely on what you want.
115. Revelation 22:16 says that Jesus is the “offspring of David.” Mary was not descended from David, but Joseph was. Doesn’t this mean that Jesus wasn’t the son of your god at all, but the (mortal and not divine) son of Joseph?
A: The prophecy of Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
The fulfillment in Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Well I don’t know if Mary was part of David’s lineage but because Joseph was the husband of Mary, that makes him Jesus step father. But since Mary was impregnated by the Holy Spirit Jesus is God.
116. What would the correct thing to do be if your god gave you a command that was harmful and/or destructive to you? A common argument, which comes from Paul, states that because clay pots don’t complain about what the potter does with them, people shouldn’t complain about what their maker (supposedly, your god) does with them, but this completely ignores the vitally important argument that clay pots have no sense of self-awareness and cannot think or feel love, pain, anger, etc. If you want to make this argument, you have to deal with this difference.
A: Well since God is perfect, that means his character is perfect, and he wouldn’t do anything that goes against his character unless it had a greater good. Example, Jesus who was sinless became sin for us so that we would be saved. There was death involve but it was for the greater good which is consistent with God’s character.
117. What (or who) does your sect believe the number 666 represents? Justify your answer.
A: Revelations 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
118. If your god is “just and merciful,” why would he take Solomon’s kingdom away from Solomon’s son while not punishing Solomon, when it was Solomon himself who committed the sin of idolatry? What did Solomon’s son do to deserve punishment? (See 1 Kings 11:12).
A: Answered “Just & Mercy” question #13. He did punish Solomon. 1 Kings 11:11 “Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant.” As well because Solomon followed after other gods he broke the first 2 commandments.
Exodus 20: 3Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
So we see because Solomon broke the 2nd commandment he cursed his own offspring. He knew better, and trust me it hurts a parent when their child gets punished.
119. Why is Solomon commonly considered to be the paragon of wisdom by many Christians, when he constantly sinned against your god (1 Kings 11:4-10, etc.)? Personally, if I had a god talking to me, I’d do what he said.
A: He started off right and it says he was the wisest man alive. But when someone isn’t chastised when they screw up, and it continually happens that person gets all prideful no matter how wise they are, and he clearly wasn’t walking in the wisdom God had given him. The Holy Spirit is depicted as a small quiet voice, he’s talking to us all the time, we just are to loud and don’t take the time to listen. Who do you think draws you to the realization of Jesus Christ? It’s the Holy Spirit, but he will not force you to do anything, you need to take time to be still and listen.
120. Don’t you think that an anti-sex position (see question #22) is a rather silly position for your sect to take when the biblical book “Song of Solomon” is a piece of erotic poetry? (For instance, in Song of Solomon 8:2, the bridegroom proposes to “drink of spiced wine of the juice of the pomegranate.” The pomegranate was a symbol of the female genitalia, and the “spiced wine” represented menstrual blood).
A: Read my answer from #22. I’m not anti-sex, when it comes to the right circumstances. 1 man & 1 woman in a committed relationship (marriage).
121. Does it bother you that the cross, supposedly a Christian symbol, was actually stolen from the Egyptians? Why or why not? (The Egyptian cross, the ankh, was a male-female symbol similar in concept to the yin-yang. When the Christians stole the ankh from the Egyptians, they removed the female symbol, or yoni, leaving only the masculine symbol– a subtle way of reinforcing the idea that women are lesser beings).
A: No. The cross represents Jesus dieing for me (he hanged on a cross {crucifix}). Does it bother you that the English language is stolen from the Greeks, Germans, etc.? Its not stolen, its taken from them (possibly), there is a difference. Christians didn’t steal Egypt. They took something from the culture (maybe, I don’t know the history on the matter) modified it and uses it. What do you think the Japanese do with cars. They copied other companies and made the cars their own and they did a great job (I drive a Honda).
122. How do you explain that Christians are twice as likely to have sadomasochistic tendencies as non-Christians?
A: What’s your proof, evidence. Are these reliable sources?
123. What is the incredibly important doctrinal difference that requires the fighting between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?
A: I don’t know, go ask them. Plus how many are true believers of their faith?
124. Even if your god did create the universe, why does he want to be worshipped? Is your god an egomaniac?
A: First and far most God wants a relationship with his children that is why we were created. Why do we have kids? To have relationship with them, as well to continue on the species until the return of Christ. 1 Chronicles 16:29 “Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name: bring an offering, and come before him: worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.” When you are in the presence of someone so pure/holy/glorious you can’t help but worship. Worship is rendering thanks giving and praise. When someone does something amazing for you, do you thank them for what they did. If you think of all that God has done, is and is going to do, how can you not worship him?
125. What are your beliefs concerning Wicca? (”white witchcraft”). How much do you know about Wicca?
A: Since you talk about Wicca a lot I assume you are involved. I know a lot about Wicca and how things work at the core of it. I’ve talked with and learnt a lot from people who use to be witches and wizards and got out and are now born again Christians. My beliefs about Wicca. Though they claim to be white witches and only do good, how are you doing good? Where does your power come from? The spirits you converse with and use to carry out your spells, how do you discern if they are good or bad? And the spirit saying “I’m a good spirit trust me” is not considered good discernment. What moral standard can you challenge yourself and the spirits to so you know what and who you are working with.
126. What do you think the word “Satanist” means?
A: Well a Satanist to me is anyone who is a follower of Satan and worships him as their god.
127. How do you explain the fact that the word “blood” occurs over 400 times in the Bible? Isn’t this a rather savage way to write a book that is supposed to be at the center of an ethical system?
A: In the King James it shows up 375 times not over 400. And so what if it shows up that many times. Blood is important part of us living. Its real, the Bible is a very real book and tells it as it is.
128. Throughout the Bible, your god commands his followers to wage merciless war on unbelievers (Luke 22:36, Deuteronomy 13:8, Exodus 20:23-25, Deuteronomy 20:16, Matthew 10:34, Numbers 31:17-18, etc). If you are one of his followers, why aren’t you out waging merciless war on unbelievers?
A: Refer to my answer from question #6.Those wars were Old Testament and when Jesus said he came to bring the sword, I answered that already in question #40. So true Christians don’t wage merciless wars on unbelievers, for the golden rule is all about love.
129. Numbers 23:21 says that your god “has not seen wickedness in Israel.” If this is so, explain why your god burned Israelites for complaining (Num 11:1), sent a plague against them for eating the meat he had given them (Num 11:33), why he burned people for using incense (Num 16:35), why he sent a plague against the Israelites who accused Moses of wrongdoing (Num 16:44-49), and why he sent fiery snakes among the Israelites (Num 21:5). Is your god a liar, or was it just more convenient for him to lie at that particular place and time, or what?
A: Lets read it in context. Numbers:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? 20Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it. 21He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.
So what’s all going on. Balak is the enemy of the Israelites and he gets Balaam to inquire of God and curse the Israelites. So in verse 19-21 Balaam is telling Balak what God told him. Because the Israelites are Gods people he blesses them. And when the Israelites were walking with God and have repented of their sin well then we have what it says in vs 21. When we repent are sins are wiped clean like we had never committed them. But when we don’t repent, especially in the Old Testament Gods justice is upon the people.
130. What was it that was so bad about eating an apple that death had to result from that act?
A: They disobey! They were told to not eat of the tree of knowledge of good evil or they will die. So if I tell you don’t put a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger or you will die, what happens when you disobey and pull the trigger? You die, just as Adam and Eve did.
131. What was it about humanity’s torturing and killing of your god’s only son that made your god so happy that he again promised eternal life to everyone who believed in him.
A: He wasn’t happy Jesus was tortured and killed. But he was happy that the cost (Gods Justice) of our sins was paid in full by the death of Christ.
134. Matthew says (in Matt 2:21) that Jesus dealt in Nazareth so that he could fulfill a prophecy stating that the Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Where is this prophecy in the Old Testament?
A: Luke 1:26 “And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,” So we see the Nazareth is a city of Galilee.
The prophecy Isaiah 9:1 1Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations. 2The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
The prophecy is that Jesus would have a Galilean ministry. The fulfillment of the prophecy
Matthew 4: 13And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim: 14That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
135. Matthew says that on the triumphant entry into Jerusalem, Jesus was riding on an ass and a colt (Matt 21:7). How do you explain that the original prophecy (Zech 9:9) stated that Jesus would be riding on only one ass, and the other gospel writers place Jesus only on one ass (Mark 11:7, Luke 19:35, and John 12:15)?
A: Zechariah 9:9Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout aloud, O Daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King comes to you; He is [uncompromisingly] just and having salvation [triumphant and victorious], patient, meek, lowly, and riding on a donkey, upon a colt, the foal of a donkey.
Matthew 21:7They brought the donkey and the colt and laid their coats upon them, and He seated Himself on them [the clothing].
Mark 7:7And they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their outer garments upon it, and He sat on it.
Luke 19:35And they brought it to Jesus; then they threw their garments over the colt & set Jesus upon it.
John 12:15Do not fear, O Daughter of Zion! Look! Your King is coming, sitting on a donkey’s colt.
So here are the scriptures, what is the problem? I don’t see one.
136. In Matthew 1:23, Matthew has the angel say that Jesus would be born of a virgin. However, the prophecy that Matthew is referring to, Isaiah 7:14, uses the Hebrew word almah, which simply means a young woman. It has nothing to do with sexual purity; the Hebrew word for virgin is bethulah. How do you explain this?
A: Well young women can be virgins. Read the rest of the scriptures that say she was a virgin and that Jesus was born of a virgin. When looking at other scriptures we see the consistency of the word of God.
137. Isaiah 7:16 seems to say that before Jesus had reached the age of maturity, both of the Jewish countries would be destroyed. Where is the fulfillment of this prophecy in the New Testament?
A: I don’t know at the moment and will look into it.
138. Matthew 1:23 says that Jesus would be called Immanuel, which means “God with us.” Why does no one (not even his parents) call him Immanuel at any point in the New Testament?
A: If we read Matthew 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” Jesus was his main name that they referred to him as. But what’s not to say Immanuel wasn’t his middle name? God has tons of names given to him in the scriptures.
139. How many inconsistencies in the Bible, other than those mentioned in this paper, do you know of? Cite chapter and verse for as many as you have room for.
A: Not 1! You need to understand the context of the scripture in its time, and usage. And if you do that, there is not 1 inconsistency.
140. If even the contemplation of sinning is a sin (i.e. “sinning in your heart”; see, for example, Matthew 5:28) and if Jesus was tempted by Satan in the desert (Matthew 4:5-8, Luke 4:5-9), how can you say that Jesus was without sin?
A: Jesus never contemplated or thought of evil with in his heart. Therefore he was with out sin. Satan tempted Jesus but Jesus never thought of doing those things, he answered Satan back “It is written” each time. Therefore Jesus never sinned.
141. Does your sect believe that the existence of your god can be established through a formal proof? Why or why not?
A: Yes. Refer to my cosmological argument (question #93). Plus there are many other arguments, all of the historical, scientific proof is out standing. Plus all the prophecies that have been fulfilled with 100% accuracy.
142. Pick a famous argument for the existence of your god, then criticize that argument. (Assume I mean for you to use the academic definition of criticize).
A: Cosmological Argument. Question #93. It makes sense to me. Everything created has a purpose. God wasn’t created therefore he doesn’t have to have a purpose, or have a beginning or end.
144. What does your sect think of the government? Read Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapter 13. Now what do you think of the government? If necessary, reconcile the two views.
A: I’m a Canadian and I think the Government could be better but it sure could be worse. Here in North America we are truly blessed. Scripture says we are to submit to the authority over us unless it goes against the word of God. God’s authority first then mans.
145. What is your definition of the word Christian?
A: Follower of Jesus Christ in all ways. Someone who has repented and made Jesus both Savior and Lord over their life.
146. Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?
A: The US isn’t 85% Christian, according to the biblical definition of a Christian. I would like to see the stats on the sex crime ratio, but as long as people live after the lusts of their flesh there are going to be sex crimes. Plus back then women and children had no rights, so how many cases were actually reported?
147. If someone accepts Jesus, and is “saved,” but then turns away from Jesus, is that person still saved?
A: This is one I’ve contemplated and I’m still not sure. The reason is because it is God who only knows who’s name is written in the book of life. There is scripture talking about both being saved and lost. I’ve never done a full in depth study on the topic. I have more important stuff to learn on how to be a better person and I will never completely turn my back on Jesus cause I know what he has done for me. But I will get into this one day.
148. Where did your god come from?
A: God wasn’t created. He existed outside of the universe and time. Read the Cosmological argument again. Question #93.
149. What are the requirements for being saved? Some sects says that faith alone is enough; others say that faith without works is dead. The Bible supports both these viewpoints. What does your sect think?
A: One last time.
• You have sinned, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, we all have broken Gods commandments.
• Recognize that Christ died on the cross for you. He died in your place because there was no other way for you to satisfy to righteous demands of a holy God you have offended.
• You need to repent of your sin. God has commanded us to repent and turn toward him.
• You need to receive Christ into your heart as savior and Lord.
• And you need to do it now! This is an either or proposition. To not say yes to Jesus is to say no to Jesus. Do you want to come to Jesus right now?
That’s what you need to do to be saved. After that its living out your faith, your relationship with God.
Now my questions:
1. What do you believe?
2. Why do you believe it? What evidence, proof do you have for your beliefs?
3. Have you actually in depth looked into Christianity, or have you just heard things and not actually look into them?
I challenge you to look in depth into Christianity. Read Josh McDowell’s book “the new evidence that demands a verdict” $20. And be honest with your self and ask your self what is more plausible, what you believe or Christianity? You owe it to your self to do this.
Russell
Comment by Russell — 7 November, 2006 #
Hello all. I’ve read through most of the above posts & there are some interesting points & some drivel as well. I was raised in a school where christianity was taught every day & an emphasis was put on bible study. For 5 years starting in late teens I read & re-read the bible, studying & working to apply all of it’s teachings (don’t ask why!) The more I understood of this text the more I was confronted with glaring inconsistencies & contradictions. Even if taken in a highly intuitive way it is impossible to make coherent sense of this text. I would urge anyone who has not done so to read revelations, for the sheer imaginative use of descriptive language, There are some gems though, & a thread of spiritual teaching, although hard to de-cypher, is contained within it. It amazes me that almost all the christians I speak with have not read the whole bible or studied it in any great detail. I do not like the way christians take a quote from the bible & use it to put forward a fact, as if the passage they are quoting is a literal truth. I have had a beleif in a creator & lost it only to find it again, but it is my understanding & experience, not the understandings of religion I now go by. Through meditation & other practices I have found an open minded way of trying to live my life in a spiritual way. I see all religion as dead ends & whether they were based on real “spiritual” people, they have far more to do with control than anything else today. Spirituality in whatever form it takes I see as a search within for truth, wherever that path may lead. There is a quote I like that puts it well – “Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell, spirituality is for people who have been there.”
I have a question which I put to christians, & so far no-one has been able to awnser it. I do not doubt that religious or spiritual experiences happen to people, but why would the experience be attributed to christ, which is a name. Is it because the social framework for the experience is christianity, just as a person with knowledge of the muslim faith is more likely to attribute a spiritual or divine experience with allah. If I was living in a society whose diety & religion was based around a figure called “noddy” for example, would I not be likely to attribute a divine experience to his name & the spiritual customs of my culture. Yes I know you are likely to say that it is the being that is given the name christ that holds the meaning and the power, but then where is the importance in the name? My understanding is that the creator is without form, & beyond all definition, the nameless. I can understand how it is usefull to invoke certain deities & spititual forces by name, but what is the special significance of the name of christ? It is after all, as pointed out in the original post not his original given hebrew name. Please can a christian reply me back with a proper explanation? I’m not having a dig It’s just a question. (The question can be applied equally to the muslim faith) Thanks.
Comment by Marc C — 7 November, 2006 #
Your question: “I do not doubt that religious or spiritual experiences happen to people, but why would the experience be attributed to christ, which is a name?”
My answer:
1. Life is not about “spiritual experiences.” God didn’t put us here just for our benefit, but for His.
Whether or not we have “spiritual experiences” is irrelevant to our purpose.
2. That being said, Christ is not just a name. He was a real human being, the Son of God, who died on a cross for the forgiveness of our sins. Many religions teach that we have the power to earn our way into heaven, as if our finite efforts could warrant an infinite reward. Wrong. Getting into heaven requires more than flawed human efforts, it requires perfection – and only the sacrifice of God’s perfect Son can achieve it.
Comment by gun_will_travel — 7 November, 2006 #
I will make on more point here for any reader here. Satan and his followers, particularly the evil, knows the scriptures probably even better then I do. Now let me tell, what the write of this sick post has done, is no different to when he confronted christ and asked him to jump cause the scriptures said the lords angels will save him, but Jesus replied they also say do not tempt the lord. Now I say to you followers of christ, thank you for all your attempts to support your beleifs. However, when you accept christ and are a follower of christ, in god’s image you are now blamless, like him, like his son, therefor do not let the evil push you around no longer. This writer is obviously a lost soul and there is nothing you and I can do in our writing to attempt to change his mind or the other poeple that feel into his trap. So I say to you that you use the ultimate weapon we do have and that is to talk to our father in Heaven and pray for this person as well as the rest of the readers that don;t understand.
II have to say to the writer of this. Your questions are just, non beleivers should ask these things but in your case you don’t want to hear our truth, you want to mock us. However, in the coming time of the lord and you stand before him, and say no one attempted to convert you, you will be caught, cause so many here have tried to tell you. You asked one question, what is it like in hell. I am sorry to tell you but if you keep your heart hardened in this fashion, you will know and I will not, for I am not going that way cause my heart is with christ. I may not be perfect, according to his eyes I am therefore I feel hrrible because I still do things that are wrong but he is jsut and merciful and will not let me go. The best advice I can give you is this, The fear of the Lord is the foundation of all knowledge. Perhaps you read that, cause according to your report you know the bible, but won;t accept it, but I encourage you, the next time you are faced with a mountain, remember, there is always one thing scary. Do not for those who can destory you body, but only fear he who can destory both body and soul in Hell. I pray that you will not go there and the god will reach out to you before your time is up.
God bless
Nathan
Comment by Nat — 7 November, 2006 #
I have to say this is a big breath of fresh air for me, finally someone has pointed out all the inadequacy in at least one type of relegion (christianity). I strongly believe that religion is a main factor causing the mess in which we are today. So many wrong doings are conducted in the name of a being which is inconceivable and un explainable by any means. Not only this but the teachings and writings of these religions contradict themselves in so many ways its a wonder the idiots who do worship haven’t become confused!
All i can say is gd luck in the nothingness which is the afterlife to all those who believe.
Comment by Macca — 7 November, 2006 #
thankyou russell
Comment by Matt05 — 7 November, 2006 #
This is a great read I must say. I would also like to add a few things (I’m not a big bible reader so bear with me):
1. One of the ten commandments is “Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife.” God has clearly broken that rule by impregnating Mary. If there is a heaven, where would Joseph be?
2. In one of the scriptures that you’ve mentioned, God had said to place no one above him and that if He told you to murder your family in His name, that you should do it or you may never enter the kingdom of Heaven. Now, if this is not seen as a problem, why do we sentence a man to death for murdering his family because ‘God’ told him to do so?
3. What happened to all the ‘miracles’? Didn’t God burn a city for being corrupted with homosexuals, murderers and thieves? I know damn well that there are cities far worst than that today, yet i see no ‘miracles’ that condemns these people from their sins…
4. How can God be truely good without having a taste of true evil. If you think about it, a child knows what’s right from wrong by first doing the wrong deed and then gets punished for it. What was Gods wrong deed?
That’s all I can think of right now. Please do not flame me
Comment by Ghost — 7 November, 2006 #
Sorry. One more thing:
From what I can remember from the bible, when people went to church and had to give offerings, it was mostly food. Never have I read that we had to offer money. But nowadays, Churches ask for offerings at LEAST 4 times each meeting.
Comment by Ghost — 7 November, 2006 #
The reason that there is inconsistancy is because, the bible has been translated too many times over the past 2000 years. And with new translations came the coruption of the bible.
As a Muslim, I belive the bible has been corrupted, and in my words (out of date)
Imagine people coming into power and changing whatever they want, and installing new chapters into the bible.
Just look at how many versions are available today, the need of so many versions is clearly visable, that most of them have errors and so each version claims it’s the most error free
Thats why there are soo many inconsistancies.
My last word, If you are ready to read about the after life, the best laws for man to live in, and the prophets of Islam INCLUDING JESUS (or ISA in arabic) Just go to an Islamic web site that answers these questions try http://www.allaahuakbar.net/misconceptions/index.htm
God Bless
DV
Comment by virus — 7 November, 2006 #
I am very new in my faith! First I want to thank junaman for posting this, you have strengthened my faith in the Lord! Second I want to thank Russell for taking the time required to defend our faith and educate me. Thank you all who question Christ because you make me love him more!
God bless every one of you!
Comment by I love Jesus Christ — 7 November, 2006 #
c’mon guys, it’s a fact that there are so many inconsistencies and errors in the bible. Even the jehovah group accepts that there are around 50,000 errors in the bible. aside from this, maybe some of you don’t know that catholic bible (duoay) is different from the protestant (king james). In addition so many books were not included in the bible, ex: gospel of james, barnabas, etc.. not mentioning the church histoy which include witch-hunting, rape, torture, (inquisition) etc.. all of these things are not being brought up by our church leaders, we are being fed by our church leaders according to the needs of our church. Well, it goes down to the main point, the imperfection of the bible. hence i always depend on the teaching that true faith to the real god will save us. And my God is the one who created me and not the one who got tired on the seventh day for my God never tires.
Comment by welscua — 7 November, 2006 #
One question welscua….
If you don’t follow the Bible because you belive it is “imperfect” (flawed) then as a christian where do you get your teachings from?
I mean what rules, or orders will you follow if you don’t follow any book?
I do suppose you’ll answer me with the word “faith”
But you and I are imperfect, and we need to be guided, not just base our lives in what we think is right (live our life accourding to our opinoin in whats right or wrong)….don’t you think so?
Comment by virus — 7 November, 2006 #
@welscua
As for the Bible being hopelessly corrupted, I am not sure about the Christian one but I can tell you the Jewish Bible is letter for letter identical to ancient ones, such as Dead Sea Scrolls, etc. If so much as one letter becomes even difficult to read, the Torah is declared non-kosher and cannot be read from. The 5 Books of Moses (you’d call them Genesis through Deuteronomy), haven’t changed one bit. I did once check a few lines in a King James against this and I’ll give it credit and say it seemed pretty close. Not identical, but close . Once you try to put them in another language this is bound to happen (one or two key phrases were outright missing, mind you, including the one instructing you not to add to the Torah) but I can assure you, in the original Loshen Kodesh (Biblical Hebrew), they haven’t changed at all.
I can’t speak for what happens from there on, it may be true that the Christian Bible has been changed over time, but the part I am familiar with certainly hasn’t.
Anyway, speaking as a member of the group of people most likely to be on the receiving end of Churches acting badly (throughout history, you’ll find the inquisition and most other horrors commited by the Catholics in particular, were directed *almost* exlusively against Jews), I still wouldn’t blame the Christian’s *bible* for this. I would blame power hungry people abusing their position of power.
Comment by Gumbercules — 7 November, 2006 #
thanks russell i’d largely agree with you there, although i’d ask if you believe in literal 6 day creation or theistic evolution?
the question about where the name Jesus came from: Jesus is a variation of the Hebrew name Joshua, meaning JHVH (or YAWEH or JEHOVA) saves.
it was a common name in israel at the time of Jesus’ birth.
(incidently, JHVH is the word that is translated LORD in the Bible)
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
and welscua, God didnt rest on the 7th day because He was tired, it was He did it as an example to demonstrate how PEOPLE should take one day off work a week, for our benefit.
i.e. God doesn’t get tired but we do.
Comment by dave — 7 November, 2006 #
Dave,
The name Jesus comes from the anglisation of Yeshuah, which was probably, as you put it, fairly common at the time.
This name, however, has no direct link to (certainly not “meaning”) the 4 letter name of G-d, Y..H..V..H. (Incidentally, the name Jehova, which also has no direct link, first appeared only say 500 years ago, and is a direct result of combining the above mentioned 4 letter name with the vowels from the way Jews represent it during prayer, i.e a..d..o..n..i. Combined, they became YaHoViH). This 4 letter name is unpronouncable and has never been translated into a Jew’s name (Jesus was a Jew, remember) and certainly not a ‘common’ one. Attempting to call your kid that, back then, probably would have been tantamount to a death sentance.
Given my probably excessive posting above, I wouldn’t mind posing a few questions, myself but I’ll do that in a second, in a seperate post, to leave this one standing.
Comment by Gumbercules — 7 November, 2006 #
Ok – so here’s my questions. I’ve posted plenty of links above and offered no disrespect or abuse to Christians or Aethesits, alike, so just because I’m asking questions doesn’t mean I am mocking. Genuinely, no disrespect intended, just I’d like to hear the response, as i’ve never yet heard a good reply (not that i’ve really had this discussion often).
-
Below are the Biblical conidtions for “being the Messaih”. I’d like to know how people justify a belief that Jesus meets these. They’re not something I made up, they’re direct quotes, with reference. Please note, failure to met 100% of these indicates that the candidate is not the Messiah.
Apologies for the length.
1. First of all, he must be Jewish – “…you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)
– Ok, score one for Jesus.
2. He must be a member of the tribe of Judah – “The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet…” (Genesis 49:10)
– To be a member of a tribe your FATHER must have been, also. Jesus ‘didn’t have a father’.
3. He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son – “And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever…” (2 Samuel 7:12 – 13)
– Again, the miracle birth is getting you into trouble, here. Notice the line “set up your seed after you”, so he really must descend from David’s seed. The Kingly line can descend ONLY from male to male.
4. He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel – “And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)
– I’m a Jew and I live in Australia. So far, we’re 1 from 4.
5. He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem – “…and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..” (Ezekiel 37:26 – 27)
– The Temple is not yet rebuilt. The land is currently occupied by a Mosque.
6. He will rule at a time of world-wide peace – “…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.” (Micah 4:3)
– War is most definately still happening.
7. He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments – “My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes.” (Ezekiel 37:24)
– Many Jews, especially in the US, are not observant. Christianity actively discourages observance of Biblical law.
8. He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d – “And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd” (Isaiah 66:23)
– Again, definately hasn’t happened.
______
So, out of 8, Jesus scores 1. Now, they’re the bare minumum requirements for even starting to look like the Messiah, so how come Christians believe he was?
9. The Bible clearly states that “(Deuteronomy 4:2) “You shall not add to the word that I commanded you, nor shall you subtract from it.” and yet all the ‘proof’ that Jesus was the messiah is *added* after the Torah finishes. I could get someone to *add* the Quoran to the discussion but neither myself nor a Christian would accept the ‘proof’ it offers, so if possible, I’d like someone to attempt to answer my questions, within the bounds of the what you’d call “the Old Testament”.
I’d really appreciate genuine responses, and I think some of the people posting above have the maturity to attempt to provide them, rather than the normal abuse you’d get asking these sorts of questions, online.
Comment by Gumbercules — 7 November, 2006 #
i just wanted to say i disagree with the person and anyone else who belives that religion is the cause of all the worlds problems and is the cause of ‘all the mess’.
most religions teach and promote peace and understanding with one another, unfortunately its PEOPLE in general who who make a mess. people who are evil and stupid enough to cause trouble for others because they are selfish- whether they are religious or not.
and for the record, people who actually have a faith or religion usually have some sort of guidance and rules they follow by- some of them may not be right or they may be misguided, but they have something they believe in- perhaps you should be more concerened about the individuals in this world who believe in nothing and have no rules and no guidance. these are the people they can do what they like and have no reason for what they do. ‘they do because they can’
Comment by saf — 8 November, 2006 #
The problem that Christians run into is that they have taken the teachings of the Bible and attempted to turn them into historical fact when they are meant to be metaphors. All mythologies (and I’m not using this in the sense of the word ,to be untrue,- but rather a religion started by man) contain symbolic metaphors for the human condition that are signposts to lead people to an understanding of god that exists beyond words.
Once these metaphors become transformed into facts they become absurd, which I think this post does a marvelous job of pointing out. If you are going to assume that there actually was a Noah who loaded two of every animal on a boat smaller than a cruise ship in less than a day, then floated at sea for forty days without any of the animals eating each other then you are opening yourself up for ridicule. As history it’s absurd. As a metaphor it is brillant.
Unfortunatley Christians (as well as Jews and Muslims) have taken these metaphors and turned them into a history lesson so that now to even look at them as a symbol is seen as heresy. It has gotten to the point that to even question the bible is greeted with, how did that charming post phrase it, ‘I hope you go to hell and are raped by a gay black man’. The religion of peace indeed. They assume they are protecting their beliefs when they are actually deadening themselves to the beauty of them by sucking the life, poetry and mystery out of their own religion.
For a different view look to the East. No religious wars are fought between the adherents of Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism because verbalized statements made about the nature of reality are never assumed to be reality itself. Occidental religions would do well to learn that.
Comment by Phaedrus — 8 November, 2006 #
To “gun_will-travel” who replied to my above post-what you have written does not awnser anything!
In response to point 1-life has everything to do with spiritual experiences, if we are if fact primarily spiritual beings having a material experience. The bible primarily talks about spiritual experience, & it’s message is one of how to lead a spiritual life. I would think that you are very confused to write such a thing & have no real understanding of christianity.
On point 2- The bible speaks of ALL men being saved, the multitude in white from every nation & people’s. Also that when Jesus descended through the infernal realms he did so so that there would be no place that Gods precence would not be. The bible explains that which belongs to God would be returned to God. Namely the spirit. Christ refered to himself as the son of man, in my understanding “born of man” that we are his brothers & sisters as equalls. He also said that the master is not above the disciple. Is he not saying & with his message & teaching that any person can be like him & attain a spirituality & conecteddness equall to his own? & that whatever befalls a human being he can find through his own spirituality God? I think he is. This message can still be found in the bible, but it is not what the powers that be want you to think. They would have you live your life in ignorance & fear, & control you. So as to confuse people into thinking Jesus was not a normal man they invented the immaculate conception & the resurrection. In the accounts of the bible the embaming lotions aplied to Jesus after his death? were reviving herbs. He was a short time on the cross. It is very likely he was revived (resurrection being an old term used for the modern term of resusitation). & would have continued his ministry elsewhere, most likely in tibet, where it is most likely he spent his early life & budhist training, & then died a natural death. Budhidt teaching is at the core of his message. Compassion for all living things, seeking conection to God within etc.
To Nat who posted a reply to me, I have no idea what you are talking about! If you are a christian, condeming & judging people to the fires of hell will not bode well. Do you not know it is written in the bile that “On the level with which you judge, so too shall you be judged” In revelation it clearly states, the lake of burning sulfer as the second death & that anyone who is afraid of it shall not pass through it. Also that ultimatly only the false prophet, the beast & the anti christ shall be thrown into the pit. The unholy alliance are also a trinity. The devil, & this trinity is a representation of him shall be destroyed. My understanding & it is shared with alot of people, is that the devil does not exist. An explanation for the casting of the three into the pit is an allegory for the end of the illusion of the material plane, or similar illusions. Why is it that so many christians are so keen to start ranting hate filled retoric about eternal damnation. If carefully looked at, the bible will tell you that no-one goes to hell. Yes I personally beleive there are malevolent spirits & dark forces, also dark realms & purgatory. But ultimatly all people return to the source of their creator, or to an awarness of their own or a spiritual being. I canot see how with what is going on the world in regards to the destruction in the middle east, brought about in a large part by fundamentalist christian ideals, that the modern practice of this religion has alot to do with “loving thy neighbour” or spreading peace & love. I do not know many Islam extremists, but I have met many “born again” & evangelical christians, & I find their methods & rethoric deeply disturding. They have been amongst the most lost, confused & angry people I have met.
There is one last point I would like to make. The bible & the message of Jesus clearly states that this world has been given over to the evil one & that the enemies of the real church (Gods chosen) are the principalities, the goverments, the structures of power on the earth, (i.e. organized religious groups) If this is true & by being a christian you take the bible to be the word of God & gospel truth. Then are you not alligning yourself with the devil & one of his minions?
Also Please DO NOT pray for me, I am very contented & happy with my spirituality, & I do not wish for any maligned energy you may be attuned to, to be sent my way, thankyou. I will light a candle for you & ask that Dr Ushui be with you & bring healing to your life, to help you through confusing times. Peace.
Comment by Marc C — 8 November, 2006 #
Hey phaedrus, great post, spot on. If we were all budhist or followed eastern philosophy I don’t think the world would be in such a terrible mess.
Comment by Marc C — 8 November, 2006 #
It’s a philosophical question- Either god excists or he doesn’t.
Due to the amount of religions world wide, you can litterally argue this subject for life times. Your son and your son’s son’s son… etc… Could argue this 24/7 and come to one conclution:
No matter the religion, spirituality, the faith or the belief there is a positive message in between the lines of each. It’s quite obvious there is a very strong connection between all.
Which would lead me to wonder where such a message could have originated from. And my mind would then guide itself into coming to the conclusion that; Through-out human history, we’ve been talking and stating “facts” in definates.(mostly atleast) No matter how rediculous, people actually believed there to be witches, the earth was flat, first there’s many gods – then one all mighty powerful god. No way people will fly like birds, and of course the universe is only 12-13billion years old.. even if we’re looking 12 billion years back in time (in space) and we find fully grown galaxies – it’s still only 12-13billion years old(being sarcastic).
The point is that some if not most people these days (and perhaps it’s always been this way) need something solid to hold on to. And beliefs such as christanity gives them comfort. I like to look at religion such as christanity as a milestone marker of the ignorant and weak people in the world and/or the mentally tramatised people.
To those who understand religion and an all powerful hypocritical god to be nothing more than a fairy tall – can easily pin point those who have less control of their lifes and thus need religion to substain it.
Like writing a S on people’s forehead “Stupid”.
Our very own creation for the unfit people to survive in our complex, vast and very rough society.
Survival of the fittest bares no meaning in our world today.
Just to give the name callers less of something to do – I am actually a spiritual man, who believes in himself, nature, all of mankind and moreover technology. I believe generally all of us wish a positive result on most of our actions. Thus leaving me to believe that human are positive in nature.
Furthermore, in the age of information, and a fast growing technological civilization – I place my “faith” in the fact that eventually we will have to unite as one, and with technology all those who want to can learn anything and everything. Providing skills in filtering out the bs.
As of today we work with technology to advance our lifes. Tomorrow, technology will work with us to advance itself.
Comment by Naq — 8 November, 2006 #
Wow! You bring up a lot of interesting points. I’m going to talk about this with some of my friends who are Christian. They might even stay through the whole thing but probably not. BTW, I’m a believer in God, just not the teachings of the Christian religion. Keep up the good work though.
Comment by Jewish Joe — 8 November, 2006 #
I’m just trying to figure out why whether we have a case of stupidity or dumbness here (on nehalf of the writer of these questions).
No seriously let me know, so i can pray for ur dumbness.
Q1. Jesus had to die to sake away the sin of the world, not the sin”s”, and the sin of the world was adams disobedience to God by eating from the tree.
You may be still thinking why did he have to die, well, in the old covenant/testament the way sins were atoned was by the shedding of blood or scrifice of a spotless animal. Why? well because this animal/lamb etc (who was spotless) would have been valuable, and by sacrificing this you be showing God how sorry you are for your sins and how important he is to you.
The fact Jesus was human and gave himself up as a sacrifice based on the old law of (sin) atonement – he became the ultimate sacrifice.
Q2.No everyone who died before him did not go to hell. Some were in Abrahams bosom commonly know as Paradise and the ones who were not right with God were in Hades which is hell.
Justify myself?…see Luke 16 verses 19-23.
Your questions are excusable but don’t do much for me. Nice try tho!
If u got 30secs to spare have a look at 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verses 3-4. Its quite interesting whats said there.
I can’t remember who but a girl posted up here that the book “holy Grail” changed her life.
Lemme give a piece of advise, not that i’m some king or anything but outta love. It would be a shame to miss out on the promises of God because of some book. Have you read the bible cover to cover. Well that would be a good thing to do then you can decide once for yourself rather than on secondary information about whther the bible is true or not.
Cheers
Comment by Rob — 8 November, 2006 #
I’m just trying to figure out whether we have a case of stupidity or dumbness here (on behalf of the writer of these questions).
No seriously let me know, so i can pray for your dumbness.
Q1. Jesus had to die to sake away the sin of the world, not the sin”s”, and the sin of the world was adams disobedience to God by eating from the tree.
You may be still thinking why did he have to die, well, in the old covenant/testament the way sins were atoned was by the shedding of blood or scrifice of a spotless animal. Why? well because this animal/lamb etc (who was spotless) would have been valuable, and by sacrificing this you be showing God how sorry you are for your sins and how important he is to you.
The fact Jesus was human and gave himself up as a sacrifice based on the old law of (sin) atonement – he became the ultimate sacrifice.
Q2.No everyone who died before him did not go to hell. Some were in Abrahams bosom commonly know as Paradise and the ones who were not right with God were in Hades which is hell.
Justify myself?…see Luke 16 verses 19-23.
Your questions are excusable but don’t do much for me. Nice try tho!
If u got 30secs to spare have a look at 2 Corinthians chapter 4 verses 3-4. Its quite interesting whats said there.
I can’t remember who but a girl posted up here that the book “holy Grail” changed her life.
Lemme give a piece of advise, not that i’m some king or anything but outta love. It would be a shame to miss out on the promises of God because of some book. Have you read the bible cover to cover. Well that would be a good thing to do then you can decide once for yourself rather than on secondary information about whther the bible is true or not.
Cheers
Comment by Rob — 8 November, 2006 #
AHHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
FUCKIN RIGHT MAN
-Jenn
P.S. —HAIL THE BLACK METAL WOLVES OF BELIAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Comment by Jenn — 8 November, 2006 #
Hello again all, I thought I would post this poem. It’s a favorite, you will probably have heard it before. I do not know of it’s origin, apart from it being spiritual, enjoy-
My Law – Tieme Ranapiri
The sun may be clouded, yet ever the sun
Will sweep on its course till the Cycle is run.
And when into chaos the system is hurled
Again shall the Builder reshape a new world.
Your path may be clouded, uncertain your goal:
Move on – for your orbit is fixed to your soul.
And though it may lead into darkness of night
The torch of the Builder shall give it new light.
You were. You will be! Know this while you are:
Your spirit has travelled both long and afar.
It came from the Source, to the Source it returns –The Spark which was lighted eternally burns.
It slept in a jewel. It leapt in a wave.
It roamed in the forest. It rose from the grave.
It took on strange garbs for long eons of years
And now in the soul of yourself It appears.
From body to body your spirit speeds on
It seeks a new form when the old one has gone
And the form that it finds is the fabric you wrought
On the loom of the Mind from the fibre of Thought.
As dew is drawn upwards, in rain to descend
Your thoughts drift away and in Destiny blend.
You cannot escape them, for petty or great,
Or evil or noble, they fashion your Fate.
Somewhere on some planet, sometime and somehow
Your life will reflect your thoughts of your Now.
My Law is unerring, no blood can atone –
The structure you built you will live in – alone.
From cycle to cycle, through time and through space
Your lives with your longings will ever keep pace
And all that you ask for, and all you desire
Must come at your bidding, as flame out of fire
Once list’ to that Voice and all tumult is done –
Your life is the Life of the Infinite One.
In the hurrying race you are conscious of pause
With love for the purpose, and love for the Cause.
You are your own Devil, you are your own God
You fashioned the paths your footsteps have trod.
And no one can save you from Error or Sin
Until you have hark’d to the Spirit within.
Attributed to a Maori.
Comment by Marc C — 8 November, 2006 #
“This post does not question religion as a whole, it questions aspects of the bible [...]”
Too bad. Religion as a whole is in serious need of being questioned. It is, and always has been, a tool of the rich and the powerful to control the weak and the poor. 2000 years ago it served its purpose well, since population needed such control. But as of the last few hundred years, religion has outlived its usefulness. There are better forms of government that do not need to resort to instilling fear, doubt and submission into its people to keep order and civility.
Comment by Chahk — 8 November, 2006 #
I think it’s funny when you people argue about things like god or satan as if they were real! It’s fiction people, wake up! Proof of something using the scientific method is the ONLY path to truth! We as a planet waste more time squabbling over religions and beliefs than we do advancing our civilization. If religion sticks around, humanity’s future is doomed!
Comment by Willy G — 8 November, 2006 #
I want to know Junaman, do you have the answers to all these questions?
Comment by paniro — 8 November, 2006 #
well now… I’d like to have this hour of my life back!
But since I can’t, I’m going to respond somehow…
Here it goes:
I used to believe. Well, I thought I did. Then faith came crumbling down as I met with something called “THE WORLD”. Now I believe only in one thing: people’s ability to decide their own and I mean exactly their own destiny.
I’ll explain.
Whatever you get involved in, has a consequence. Be it bad or good, it is always there. So, the decision you make, affect you personally and noone else. Rather, they don’t affect others in the same way they affect you. And the funny part is that you as human allow yourself to be affected by these consequences. Humans cannot stop and think rationally. We are incapable of reasoning, hence my wasting an hour of my life. I am unable to tell myself to stop writing this, otherwise this post would end at this moment with or without being actually posted. As a result this decision to write is interfering with my household duties. But this is a chance I take. The consequence of this action is that tomorrow morning I will still be walking to take a shower in the bathroom I was supposed to clean tonight. My roomate will have to do the same thing. However, I don’t let this affect me, as I have already let this whole blog affect me already. My roomate will be affected by the dirty bathroom in the form of “Devis why didn’t u clean the fucking bathroom? It’s your turn to do it!” And knowing him, he’ll throw this at me even when I do clean the bathroom.
By now you’re wondering where I’m going with this…
Just setting the scene for the whole freedom of choice thing…
SIN is nothing but my roomate throwing the dirty bathroom in my face. It’s me being affected by this stupid blog. It’s you reading this dumb post of mine and shaking your head thinking “this dude’s a dud!”
Yea, there you have it.
God, this mythical (yet to be proven the existence of) creature wants to make you feel like shit because of what you do with your day. But since he/she/it has yet to be proven that exists, we hear the blame come from people enlightened enough to speak in his behalf. Sadly Mr. W comes to mind
So this whole GOD thing is a form of control and obedience. It is then safe to assume that if we are indeed god’s children, we have not reached maturity and will not reach it, EVER! I mean, there are no promotions in heaven. You don’t get to be chief angel just because you fed 40.000 Katrina survivors. Well, come to think of it noone will make chief anything for that ordeal.
The point is folks that this is it… you get to heaven and you sit around playing golf w/St. Peter, or ask Virgin Mary whether the Holy Ghost went down on her. There are no bad news in heaven and sadly bad is what drives our lives every day. So as much as you hate to admit it, you need to have a bad guy to point to, whether here on Earth or Heaven.
…………………………
Now to comment on the original post.
Being that I despise everything GOD, I thought these questions were truly going to be insightful and interesting. Instead I found only the following to be of any value: 16, 21, 74, 92, 104, 108, 128.
The rest is a bunch of shit that even I with my limited bible knowledge can answer.
Now this is not meant to undermine the OP’s work by any means. It is commendable what he did. I just think that this whole thing could have been summed up in 2 questions. Here’s my list:
1. Can it be proven that God exists?
2. Can it be proven that God does NOT exist?
Both answers are the same… I have no fucking clue!
So why am I contradicting myself?
Remember what I said about logic and rational thinking? Yea, that’s it. You got it…
Funny how we discuss matters of heaven from an earthly prospective.
It’s like pretending to be a female prostitute who’s considering a sex change operation.
And with that little nugget of info…
PUF!
Comment by Devis — 8 November, 2006 #
I must point out a few things. This Thread is useless because 1) if u set out to prove someone wrong. then they will be wrong 2)No man on earth can ‘argue/reason a man to know God. ( mean jesus himself had to perform miralces that just how thick us humans are) also along with that miracles still happen today. A over used quote is the devils greatest trick is to convince the world he doesnt exisit and that is very true. why would i mention that. 100% of ur arguement are not ur own, just something u saw or heard from someonelse and decided to jump on the boat. Now if u try to turn that around on me. The answer is sure i heard bout Jesus from other people, BUT i have expericened him in a very personal manner. I challenge you with this all you non- believers. If u REALLY want to know the truth and are not just trying to prove a religion wrong, ASK GOD to show you the truth and if u really mean it he wont let ya down. And if anyone owuld like me to REALLY answer all of those questions let me know and i will email you answers
Comment by Brandon G — 8 November, 2006 #
Ok, now here’s 1 question for you;
Have you looked in to these answers for you, or did you take for granted that most Christians/Jews/Catholics would not take the time to answer such repetitive, facetious, know-it-all questions asked by a hard headed Christian hater that will never change his views?
Oh…and I noticed that one guy, Russell, did answer your questions. Did you read them, or did you skim over and say “Whatever. Im getting back to my porn now. I’m still right.”
KUDOS to Russell. Good job.
Comment by Joey — 8 November, 2006 #
read my post
Comment by Devis — 8 November, 2006 #
read my fucking post
Comment by Devis — 8 November, 2006 #
read my fucking post bitches
Comment by Devis — 8 November, 2006 #
read my insane fucking post you bichasswhores
Comment by Devis — 8 November, 2006 #
that’s my point!
Comment by Devis — 8 November, 2006 #
heheheh you still don’t get it
NAAFP bitches!
Comment by Devis — 8 November, 2006 #
2. No. We went to Abraham’s Bosom.
6. Since when do we say God is only “all-good?” He is stated countless
times throughout the bible that he is both a God of Love and Wrath.
7. This proves Jesus as being racist how? Did he still not heal the
girl? He was telling the woman that his priority, first and foremost,
was to the Jews, God’s chosen people.
8. We have come to morally accept oppression of women as being wrong.
But again.. was this ever stated in the bible? In fact.. how do these
verses “refute” other verses? It’s more like.. your idealogy is
refuting the bible, therefore nullifying this question. Woman was made
from man, man from the likeness and image of God. That’s like saying..
explain then.. why.. murder is wrong. Yet it happens so many times in
the Bible. But wait.. the verses that speak of loving they neighbor
will refute it!
9. Same thing with 8. Sin has corrupted slavery, just like everything
else. In fact, the bible, using the verse you cited, tells the slave to
submit to his master. Christ calls us to all be servants to one
another. Find me a verse in the bible that calls a servant to be
killed, maimed, etc. for not completing a task, if he was NOT in sin.
The parable of the talents is a good example.. he didn’t do his
master’s task because of his own avarice and so was thrown out into the
darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.
10. Since you’re so bent on these so called claims that “entailing
answering this refutes such and such”, that must mean that you’ve
answered these same questions and have come to a positive answer by
jumping through mental hoops, racking up empirical proof. We submit to
our parents because it is one of the 10 Commandments, the laws God gave
to Moses. The young man was stoned to death because he A. was a
drunkard (ephesians 5:18) and before the blood of Christ, the only way
we could be saved was by using the clean sacrifical animals @
designated tabernacles. Which he did not do. The other verses you cite
talk about disciplining your child. In those days, if you couldn’t
shape up your child with the word of God, than he would grow into a
sinful, morally corrupt person. God is saying “If you loved him, you
would discipline him with my teachings.”
11. Again, the “refuting”. God gave us the BEST way to go to heaven.
Bow and confess that Christ is your King and Savior and that he died
for your sins.
12. The fact that we sin justifies us going to hell. God made us in his
“IMAGE” and “LIKENESS”. Not 100% Exact copy. We were made with God-like
deisgn in mind, with the addition of this little thing called Free
Will. Therefore we are morally corrupt and stain the image of God. Tell
me.. what justifies us going to Heaven? And eternal, unbearable torture
in Hell? We’ll never know until the day we’re judged. But the constant
repitition of “weeping and gnashing of teeth” leads me to believe that
Hell is the darkness outside paradise (Luke 23:43) in which the unsaved
souls will constantly mourn and cry, forever desiring a relationship
with God(the eternal fire) which they so non-chalantly(sorry if that’s
not a word..) threw away. Then when Revelations is fulfilled, they are
tossed into the lake of fire and brimstone and those who are saved are
allowed into the kingdom of heaven.
13. Since when do just and merciful contradict each other? God is just
by rewarding those who do good things and vindicating those who were
wronged. He is merciful in that he gives US, who are all sinful and
morally void, compassion, even though we sin against him.
15. Where in the bible does it state personality resides in the soul?
(This is a personal belief; One which I aptly believe..). Maybe you
forgot how the brain works.. It is the engine that drives the human
body. Drugs and brain damage effect our personality because they effect
our motor skills. They throw off balances in our brain and therefore
effect memory, sight, hearing, speech patterns, etc.
19. Original sin exists because, again, we were created in an “IMAGE”,
not 100% down to the exact amino acid of God, with free will. The
serpent enticed Eve into eating the fruit. Eating the fruit was of her
own volition. Because of this we sin. And look at the passages of the
bible explaining how the sins of the father will be punished on the
son.. We are all sons and daughters of Adam and Eve and therefore are
punished for their mistake.
20. It doesn’t. Only the blood of Christ can do that. Getting baptised
symbolizes that washing of blood and an entrance to heaven. It’s both
metaphorical and symbolical. Christ baptizes you in the spirit when you
accept him — that’s what saves you. A water baptism is when you feel
like you want to make your unity with Christ complete, if accepting him
isn’t enough. (This is what I’ve basically learned so far,21 anyway…)
22. Sex isn’t considered bad. Infact, it’s embraced openly. BUT!
Between a married couple in God. It’s considered bad when it comes into
fornication. Sex is a beautiful thing, but sin has corrupted this
beautiful thing and therefore has turned it into something ugly, when
practiced outside a marriage.
23. He never gave an exact time or date. A day in biblical terms was
never exactly used as a 24 hour time period. Infact, in only 10-15% of
the new testament, was it used in such manner. Peter used it in
measurement of 1000 years (forgot the verse number, google it), and in
some other verses it marks a 40 day anniversary, etc. In the eyes of
God (Jesus), time is nothing because God exists outside of space and
time. This is where Trinity comes into play, which no human mind can
fathom or solve, nor refute.
24. Have you not witnessed physical miracles? Answered prayers?
Miraculous healings? The disciples got these because they followed the
Son of God. If Jesus were alive today I’m 100% certain that he would
show us miracles too. Or not, because we are an unbelieving people.
25. Stories of the resurrection inconsistent? They are all the same,
but written by different people. The only “fallacy” in the resurrection
comes through the twisting of words in which the pharisees paid the
guards that were guarding the tomb to proclaim to the jews that the
disciples of Christ had stolen the body.
27. Old testament. Read the animals that were believed to be unclean
and clean. Animals that needed to eat meat, were, coincidentally,
animals that we needed to eat. Animals were put here to be our food
source.
28. Why not create parasites? Technically, aren’t we parasites? What
kind of question is this? We suck things out of the earth just to live
off of it. God works in mysterious ways.
29. He doesn’t threaten, he promises us. Fear is common a tool for
athiests to battle this “why did God give you free will.” At the end,
do we not still have our free will? Were you not threatened with Hell,
and yet here you are, posting these questions? Obviously you used your
free will to denounce the existence of God.
30. God ultimately made us. He works through people, and sometimes uses
people as an example. Is the example always positive? No. (Refer to
Job). Does he forgive them? Only God knows.
31. Judas turned Jesus in for money. He traded his love for man for
love of money. Many times in the New Testament does it state to forget
money and love man (Hebrews 13:5). He sold out the Son of God no less
for 30 silver. He hung himself after he had realized what he had done.
Judas had a purpose. Only God knows what happened to him ultimately.
33. The epistles were also written while they were filled with the Holy
Spirit.
34. Where does it say God created homo-sexuals? Again, it’s free will.
Free will leads to experimenting sometimes. How does one dabble in
drugs, even if they know it’s wrong? In underage drinking? Etc..
35. Prayer is a direct way of talking to God through the Holy Spirit.
Spell casting is conjuring, usually through witchcraft and demonic
forces.
36. Because the prophecy of the Messiah was not fullfilled until John
the Baptist baptized Jesus. (correct me if I’m wrong.. this one I’m not
100% sure about because I’m still learning)
37. Umm.. millions of people throughout history are born and pass
without a mention in the local news paper. Does this make the value of
a human life any less important? Of course not.
43. Exactly that. Free will. They use their free will to try and
fullfil the Great Commission. But ask muslim extremists the same thing?
Why do they push their policies and beliefs on us? And they use extreme
violence and murder to emphasize it!
44. Again, free will. You make “push” sound like he asked us to invade
the media, storm schools, and burn down anything non-christian with a
fat ol’ “I love Jesus” banner floating through the air. He calls us to
spread the gospel and plant seeds. God water’s that seed and nurtures
it. If someone IS hounding you, than take into consideration what they
are preaching to you. I would of loved to have someone like that in my
life — someone who loved me enough to share the love of Christ with me
and change my ETERNITY forever!
45. Is there a verse in the bible that says “go and spread lies about
other religions?”. People before, and to this day, abuse Christianity
and every other religion to further their agenda. What I’m saying is
they again used a lie to convert people. Woe to them. Only God can
judge.
48. Because most of the Christians, if you wished to elaborate on that
statistical finding, claim to not even read the bible. They fight
because they don’t know.
50. He is punishing them for denouncing him as the LORD and God
almighty, and instead worshiping false idols. peep the 1st commandment.
The kids themselves did the same.
there are some questions i don’t yet know the answer too. I’m only 17 and just recently became a Christian a few months ago. I just recently started taking it seriously and started studying the bible.. Answers are every where.. I’m too tired right now to do anymore questions as I’ve been at it for about 45mins.
Good night
&
God bless
Comment by slowbus — 8 November, 2006 #
The more I see and hear and read of religion, the more insane and ridiculous it seems. I can understand why people need it – or something like it – as a crutch, but that unfortunately doesn’t make it any more palatable. In a few thousand years, if humans are still around, maybe they’ll look back at this as a continuation of the Dark Ages, just a bunch of lowbrows shaking their spears at the sky. Anyway, it’s a bunch of crap, crap with who knows how many thousands or millions of bodies piled on top in the last few thousand years for no good reason except that religions and government tend to attract all a manner of nutcases and scumbags (for obvious reasons).
So amazing.
Comment by Seth — 8 November, 2006 #
Of course, there’s a difference between religion and simple spiritualism and appreciation of the human condition and – hell – the universe. Nothing wrong with the latter, I’d say that’s healthy and natural; as a rule it doesn’t leave anybody or anything tortured, dead, ignorant, ostracized, condemned, or writhing in agony for all eternity.
Anyway, that’s just my opinion.
Comment by Seth — 8 November, 2006 #
Wow! this is hot debate. I can make of what a few of you is trying to point out. However, I find the rest who is upset can’t really explain anything. There are those who can’t recognize the contradiction in bible. I may have a simple explanation. When one is being taught over and over again of how things are and how things should go and be, it will make sense to them even when it does not.
So contradiction becomes sensible. Lets put it that way.
I personally also find that teaching these things can be dangerous when done for the wrong reasons. It is no wonder that there has been so many bad historic episodes.
This makes me wonder, why teach something that is flawed and prone to corruption that could potentially lead to disasters.
Comment by JB — 8 November, 2006 #
Any chance someone is able to address my questions, about 20 – 25 posts, above? Still curious.
Comment by Gumbercules — 8 November, 2006 #
Hey, I’m Jewish and Israeli and I bet I can even answer some of those. But I’ll only answer one that caught my eye. After searching the question here, I only saw one answer and it was false. If you’re a Christian, at least answer correctly :S
109. The original Hebrew word for the Holy Ghost/Spirit includes the idea that the Holy Spirit/Ghost is female in gender. Isn’t this rather silly when you consider the fact that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is actually the father of Jesus (Luke 1:35)?
A: Well, nouns in Hebrew have genders.
Chairs are males while spirits and characters (the word) are females, but this doesn’t mean that a gender-applicable item can’t be “genderized”.
“This character” doesn’t have to be a woman character, but the noun itself is female. “Holy Spirit” can in no way be said “Holy (male)spirit” in Hebrew, but everyone understand it’s a male, at least in this context. The closest word to spirit that is a male that I can think of at the moment is “demon”, actually.
Comment by ImP0steR — 9 November, 2006 #
And another thing. English translations have horrible transliterations. Names shouldn’t be translated, only transliterated.
Anyway, Jesus comes from “Yehoshua” (spelling can vary). It means “God Saves”, but it’s not an unusual name at all. So no “he has god’s name so that implies something”.
Comment by ImP0steR — 9 November, 2006 #
If the sky was to open & Jesus descend on a cloud before me & ask me to follow him, I would ask him intelligent questions. Why do religious people, especially it seems Christians seem so closed minded to honest debate & questions. If Christ is the ultimate truth & reality, then it should stand to any amount of questions, resoning & debate. Why do some christians get so angry at their religion being open for discussion, that they tell you; you are going to burn in hell? are they worried you will put doubt in their mind’s? If Christ is the ultimate reality, surley he cannot be threatened? The questions in the original post are quite reasonable questions to ask. I myself asked similar questions when I followed christianity. The biggest problem with accepting the bible is that; if God is truly loving, & he created us, & ultimatly his will is done, if you accept the literal truth of the bible, ultimatly it is Gods choice who goes to heaven or not, & he will throw most of us into eternal fire. To put this into perspective, this is like me raising 10 children, when they are a few years old I make a large bonfire, choose one child I want to keep, on a whim of my own, & then burn the rest of them! It simply does not make sense. And once one aspect of the bible is brought into serious question, how can you so blindly accept it?
I also wanted to elaborate a question I put to christians in a previous post. Religion is trying to give a name to the nameless & form to the formless. If my personel spiritual beleifs were taken & made into a religion, would it not again become an outside construct, based in meaningless dogma & ritual, & cease to have personel meaning. There are many names for God. These names are a representation for an idea or being. What gives one name meaning or presidence over another? Could I not refer to a Creator or God Being as any one of the following & it still be any less credible? – The Hound of Heaven, The man upstairs, Great Spirit, Higher Power, Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim, Spirit in the Sky, Essence of Mind, Co-Pilot, A High God, or many others. When did God appear to any Christian or anyone for that matter, sit down with them & tell them his/her/its name?!? Also I seem to get from some christians that they are not following a religion but living spiritualy, could someone please explain this!? If you take the teachings of the bible as your guide you are following a religion!
If anyone can answer the above question about the name of God I would be most gratefull, thanks, & please no bleating about “it was the man who lived” as Jesus christ was not his given name as pointed out in the original post. I do not wish to appear anti spiritual, I have personal beleifs that incorporate a concept of a cohesive energy that permeates all life, I just resent the whole were right, your wrong & your gonna burn for it, stuff.
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
Hello ImPOster, I was writing my last post when you posted yours. Good points, but is spirit male or female? are earthly forms & concepts just that? attempts to put form, gender & names on the nameless & the formless? Is it not just as possible spirits or our souls are shaped like jellyfish?
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
Marc C God has promised us a spot in Heaven if we accept Christ. God is bound by his oath. He’s going to choose between those who’ve genuinely accepted Christ, and those who haven’t.
Also, you claim that religion is senseless dogma & ritual? Christianity is formed from the blood of Christ. No rituals involved. Tell God that you love him and accept the sacrifice he made by having his only son crucified for us.
I like that people are questioning Christianity. I think it’s healthy. The bible says “in the end, their knowledge will increase”.
I too was a huge skeptic, convinced both scientifically and logically that Christianity is a huge joke, and how anyone could follow it.
The truth is — you don’t know until YOU apply it to YOUR life and experience it for yourself. No other book in the world convicts you like the bible; Answered prayers aren’t merely coincidence; Miracles DO happen. The power of prayer is a beautiful thing, no less a WORKING thing.
If you genuinely and adamantly pursue God, he WILL reveal himself to you.
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
Hi Marc C.
There’s no ‘male or female’ in definition, ONLY the word itself is female. You can say “this is a male’s spirit/character/television” in Hebrew, it’s not a mistake, only the word itself is female.
I’m technically Jewish, but I’m mot what you would call “religious”.
Your previous post is long and disorganized… It’s difficult for me to read it properly.
As for your question in the last post, well, I don’t know if you would define a soul/spirit male or female, or just formless. That’s a different argument, not a Hebrew wording argument.
Comment by ImP0steR — 9 November, 2006 #
Slowbus, how can you say the christian religion is without ritual? what about weddings, christenings, etc etc!? ImPOsteR, my points are very clearly explained & laid out, try readng the post slowly. The French language also uses male & female words. The point I’m getting at, which I think you are as well, is that although words hold meaning & power they are ultimatly a representation of something & not things in themselves. Which is my question – what does it matter, as to the use of the language you use to represent the name of God?
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
Weddings have become both used, wether you’re Christian or not. Christenings are the same way… Weddings are the marriage between man+woman. Do Christians practice it in God? Most certainly. Do other religions practice it in another deity? mmhmm. Same with christenings.
Do you need to complete them in order to go to Heaven?
Nope.
Other religions, must you do these rituals and eat this and this in order to gain access to paradise?
Yeap.
(:
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
I meant the large post, because it’s not phrased.
But anyway, yeah, of course words are only representations and means of communicating. I was just answering the author’s question. The actual language does matter sometimes, because translated words and meanings are often heavily changed during translations, just like how the author thinks that “Holy Spirit” necessarily represents a female.
Take the word Yehoshua, translate it to English and then translate it back to Hebrew. If it was an Israeli person who doesn’t know the name Yehoshua somehow, he would just write “Jesus” in Hebrew letters, rather than Yehoshua.
Another excellent example is the phrasing of practically any translated bible. Most have punctuation, translations rather than transliterations, and many other things. There are no periods, question marks or anything else in the original OT. Think of how heavily the meaning of a sentence can be changed by simply putting a comma or a period in the wrong place. Get it?
Comment by ImP0steR — 9 November, 2006 #
Yes ImPOsteR I completly agree with you! & I do get it.I have a copy of the first translation of the bible into english by William Tyndale, it is very different in it’s use of language from even the King James, & imparts different meaning.
I also have a particular Jewish friend who is very intelligent & speaks ancint Aramaic, the language of Christ. You cannot properly impart the same meaning from a translation as from the originall. I have some understanding of other languages & I realise a translation, even if thorough is incomplete & loses meaning.
To slowbus, All religion uses ritual & dogma, this is true, other systems of beleif use ritual also, like paganism. But you can live life with a spiritual understanding without the use of ritualistic practises & dogmatic understandings.
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
Your friend can read Aramic? How did he even manage to learn that?
Comment by ImP0steR — 9 November, 2006 #
He is apparently one of only a handfull of people who can, He has spoken to me in Aramaic before & works with scholars & groups to de-cifer ancient text. I have not gone into detail with him on the subject as it is his passtime rather than his Job. I will ask him about this matter though & try to reply to you at a latter time on this thread with an answer.
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
WOW…someone just wake me up when all of the religious wackos are gone, please. Religions exist to give people a belief that when we die, we don’t die. Instead, we’re taken to a magical place to live with god forever. Ridiculous, the truth is that NO ONE living knows what lies beyond death, and no one dead is telling. Logic and reason would suggest that when we stop, we stop. Our energies slowly return to the universe from which they came. I’m perfectly content with this, because I don’t need a reason for being. I am.
Comment by Willy G — 9 November, 2006 #
That’s so cool.. speaking Aramaic..
wish I could..
and yes you’re right…
i was just trying to point out the fact that in other religions.. in order to be in paradise, you MUST do them in order to gain entry.. in Christianity.. you just need to accept that Christ died for you and that he is your savior..
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
It is not true of Zen Budhism, where you question reality. Meditaition can be used, but it is more of a tool than anything else. & if I accept “Christ as my savior & that he died for me” can I then behave any way I wish, run around mundering people? Christianity is based on far more than just this one thing. & this thing you mention is by is nature dogmatic.
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
ahh the old tride n true “murder” argument.. all sin is equal in God’s eyes.. I guess technically you COULD do that.. you would have to ask an experienced theologian. But.. do athiests run around (or anyone else for that matter) murdering people because they don’t believe in God and it isn’t part of their faith? Nope. Not murdering people seems to also be just a part of human discernment between right and wrong..
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
What do we need religion for then?
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
My sister is a christian and my mother converted recently and insisted that the altar my grandmother put in my room in memory of her son(Pop) and husband(Grandpa) was devil worship so she got her church to throw it away. Her church irresponsibly produced a document with her signature (with her as her own witness a.k.a. unilateral) proclaiming that the property belonged to her, and with it promptly tried to absolve THE CHURCH OF SINGAPORE (Located in Marine Parade) all responsibilities. How convenient!
I have no objections to people around me practicing their own sets of unscientific beliefs but please, leave my property and me alone.
I shall throw all 149 of these questions at any christian who dare impose his/her/its sets of unscientific and illogical practices on me. Maybe I will throw this at my mum. But she doesn’t understand english, yet the stupid document was drafted in that very language. How smart can the pastor get!
In all honesty, I felt like burning the church down. But I didn’t. That was illegal and illogical. But I hope it gets burnt down anyway. I shall term it “Act of God”.
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
As a general point what difference does accepting the nature of something as real, affect the reality of that thing? apart from my own knowlege. For example if I do not accept that a bananna sitting in front of me is yellow, but I beleive it is blue, does that affect the reality of the bananna? I think not! If the reality is that all beings are saved through Christ, what does it matter if I beleive it to be true or not?
The dictionary explanation of –
Dogma – a beleif or principle laid down by an authority as unquestionably true; such beleifs or principles in general. An opinion arrogantly stated.
Dogmatic – (of an opinion) forcefully (& arrogantly) stated as if unquestionable. (Of a person) tending to make such statements of opinion.
Ritual – the set order of words used in religious ceremony. a body of such rituals, esp. of a particular church. The use of rituals in a religious ceremony. An often repeated series of actions or procedure. – adj relating to or like rites or ritual.
Now isnt’ it true that Christianity is both Dogmatic & Ritualistic?
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
[[[[[WOW…someone just wake me up when all of the religious wackos are gone, please. Religions exist to give people a belief that when we die, we don’t die. Instead, we’re taken to a magical place to live with god forever. Ridiculous, the truth is that NO ONE living knows what lies beyond death, and no one dead is telling. Logic and reason would suggest that when we stop, we stop. Our energies slowly return to the universe from which they came. I’m perfectly content with this, because I don’t need a reason for being. I am.
Comment by Willy G — 9 November, 2006
]]]]]]]
I respectfully disagree with you Willy. We do not slowly return to the universe after our deaths. We were never away from it in the first place. We were and always will be part of the universe.
Have you heard about Ted Haggards comments on heaven? He says that you can have all the ice-creams and cakes and everything that you want there. What about gay sex? And Meth? Isn’t that indulgence?
One bad pastor did not discredit and will not discredit the whole flock of sheep. They did it to themselves.
I rest my case.
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
Why are you so heart-set on disapproving the existence of God? I’ll put it simply like this:
If I die, and nothing’s there, than I’ve lost nothing.
If I die, and it is THERE, than I’ve lost everything.
Would you not rather live your life in betterment for not only yourselves but those around you?
People are going to say, well than why follow a fairy tale? etc?
When it comes down to it.. it’s the persons right to choose and where they place thier faith. That’s what free will is..
I’ve read the bible every day and go to church just about every day. My prayers are constantly answered; the conviction, etc, I feel when reading the bible and studying it.. it’s all too real and close to home for me to feel like it’s nothing. But is science not the same thing? Science in itself is also an article of faith.
This is the human life. Theology. Pondering life.
I gotta go to school now…
this debate is fun
And sorry for throwing dogma in my rebuttle.. it was unintentional in the sense I was using it (didn’t really know the definition of it offhand).
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
Dear Slowbus…..have you heard of Pascal’s Wager? It is a classic demonstration of your lack of faith.
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
So basically it means you’re not what you preach, you are nmot with who you wanna be with, and you are not one of us. I hope you like no man’s land.
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
For spare reading I’d suggest Creation by Grant R. Jeffrey. It’s got lots of stuff in it, including science proving the bible as accurate.
The problem with our existence is that EVERYTHING is theory. Theory of Evolution, Creation, Thermodynamics. It’s about your personal empirical proof. That’s my take on it.
okayy really gotta go no
later
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
My lack of faith? I have anything but a lack of faith my friend. I was trying to give people another perspective. No I have not read it but I will if I ever get a chance.
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
Why do you not go when you say you are going?
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
And also about the altar thing you were talking about.. I’m sorry that that happened to you.. most people resent religion because of bitter experiences with it.. I just implore you to not blame people because of some error/mistake/personal agenda someone made before us..
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
Cause I’m interested in this conversation.. besides I think everyone knows how a “hold on I’ll be 5 more minutes” on the computer can be..
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
I hope your school teaches EVOLUTION!!!!
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
Ok, I won’t blame the people who made those mistakes. I will blame you instead.
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
Me too. I like to learn the othersides perspectives too. Unfortunately it’s the same redundant stuff.. amino acid A formed with amino acid B and made protoplasm.. can’t wait till college cuz than I get to delve deeper into an evolutionist thought process. (:
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
hey if it makes you feel better.
anyway harry have a good day
i’m leaving now i promise
wish you the best in life friend
bye
Comment by slowbus — 9 November, 2006 #
It doesn’t make anyone feel better. What’s wrong with you? You are encouraging the misplacement of accountability. Is that how you conduct your life?
Evolution redundant? Explain a country with 80% population myopic. Mine.
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
Most of your questions imply a literal interpretation of the Bible and Christian teachings in general.
I have just one question for you:
1. Please explain how this makes you any different than the religious fundamentalists.
Comment by Salsa — 9 November, 2006 #
Junaman,
If you actually cared about the answers to these questions, you would ask someone who should be an expert in them. Contact a pastor or priest at a local church and arrange a time to meet with him/her to discuss these questions one on one. I would revise some of the language so as not to be purposelessly rude and disrespectful, since in such a one-on-one meeting there will be no need to pander to a like-minded audience.
I would suggest thinking about what questions you really want to ask, too. For instance, I would not ask a physicist, “Given that gravity is a force that only exists between planets and stars, how is it that we human beings stay on Earth?” If you ask a question using “given” or an “if/then” statement, your initial clause must be true for the question to be valid. Another problem with these questions is that several are unfocused and therefore require explanations that are too long for an internet forum.
It is clear that some of these questions take an investigative approach, seeking to use logic and scientific inquiry to sort through Christian principles. If this is the aim, then one would best be served by starting with a consideration of the very nature of infinity. That *is*, after all, the most basic property of God in monotheism. Omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence all require an infinite quantity of their designated property. You will find that several of the difficulties in understanding and representing infinity end up corresponding with those areas in Christianity where faith takes hold.
Comment by Boing-oing — 9 November, 2006 #
I would also encourage each person reading this to remember that calling oneself “Christian” does not make you God and it does not make you perfectly good or moral. Crusades, inquisition, unjust judgment – they are all bad things. The people that did them did not act according to will of the Christian God that I believe in. Inherent to our lack of omniscience is the inability to know every consequence and value to every choice, therefore we are all doomed to make decisions that are less than perfect. In your life you make billions of decisions – we are all doomed to be less than perfect because we simply aren’t capable of it!
Comment by Boing-oing — 9 November, 2006 #
For conciseness, I’ll only answer the first 10 questions.
1. Explain why your god’s only son had to die so we can go to magic happy land when we croak.
A: Because of the Adamic sin nature that man has since Adam and Eve ate of the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil which God CLEARLY told them NOT to eat of
2. Did everyone who died before Jesus died go to Hell? Justify your answer.
No, people gave sacrifices (usually a blemish-less lamb) in order to appease God’s wrath, therefore “saving” themselves temporarily. They would do this at intervals of the week.
3. If a Catholic, justify the Inquisition and other persecutions of “heretics” throughout the centuries, concentrating on why the Pelagianists, the Priscillianists, and the Manichaeans were persecuted; if a Protestant, justify the witch trials and the way that Protestants constantly hunted down native Americans until there were so few that the government could simply take their land; if a member of an Eastern Orthodox church, justify the persecutions of the Old Believers after the reforms of the seventeenth century.
Not a Catholic, and the Roman Catholic religion completely misconstrued the meaning of the Bible; they didn’t even let the people read the Bible until the Elizabethan period.
4. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not Christian.
They didn’t (Protestant)
5. Explain why your sect (whether Catholic, Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) pursued, tortured, and killed people who were not members of your particular sect.
They didn’t.
6. Explain why I should believe that your god is all-good when the only real information we have about him is the Bible, which clearly describes him as both good and evil. (See Isaiah 30:32, Luke 14:26, Numbers 31:17-18, Matthew 10:34, Amos 3:6, Deuteronomy 18:8, Deuteronomy 20:16, Exodus 20:5, Exodus 32:27, Isaiah 45:7, Psalms 52:5, Luke 22:36, and Jeremiah 18:11 for a small sample of Biblical passages which describe Jehovah as having an evil morality at times).
That doesn’t explain that God has an “evil morality”; that explains that God has wrath, and God is a jealous and vengeful God. Of course He is, you’d be pretty upset if your creation turned and directly defied you.
7. Explain why, when racism is clearly wrong, Jesus was clearly a racist (see Mark 7:25-29). NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe the idea that racism is morally acceptable.
Jesus wasn’t a racist. He said that the children should eat first, because it wouldn’t be right for her to eat before her starving children. That’s common sense, not racism.
8. Explain why, when discrimination against women is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports the oppression of women. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Cor 11 and 1 Tim 2:11-15. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that discrimination against women solely on the basis of sex is morally acceptable.
The Bible says that the man is the figurehead of the house, and that the woman should subject to the man (of course, this is common sense).
9. Explain why, when slavery is clearly wrong, the Bible clearly supports slavery. Answering this question entails refuting 1 Peter 2:18. NOTE: under no circumstances will I believe that slavery is an acceptable way to run a society.
The Bible uses figurative language to explain things – it’s talking about us subjecting to God and also to authority – And also, in Biblical times, they -did- have servants – therefore those servants’ masters were in authority over the servants, and God was saying for them to respect authority.
10. Explain why children should submit to their parents’ decisions even when those decisions are clearly evil. Answering this question entails refuting Deuteronomy 21:18-21, Proverbs 13:24, and Hebrews 12:7-8.
The Bible says to “Obey your parents, for THIS IS RIGHT.” Meaning that we should obey our parents UNTIL their decisions become evil; we’ll know their decisions are evil because our conscience will tell us that it is, if we’re a christian.
Thank you for your time reading this, if you’d like answers to more questions, e-mail me at tamriilin@yahoo.com.
Comment by tamriilin — 9 November, 2006 #
I agree with alot of the things you said. One of the major things to keep in mind though is that there are three types of christians: conservative, mainline, and liberal. Conservative christians follow the bible exactly and think every word matters. These people also don’t believe there are ANY errors in the bible. The next group are mainline christians (me). These types of christians think that the bible is a guide to salvation to a certain extent, but we also believe that the bible was written by men, so it is simply not logical to follow every word as some things in the bible are just wrong. Personally, I believe strongly in the Trinity and such, but my beliefs don’t go far beyond that. I basically believe that God is the creator, Jesus is the son and the holy spirit lives in us all…that’s what I believe. This ZOMG! Give your 10%…that’s obviously wrong. Lastly, liberal christians think that the bible is just a book that the only signifigance it has is a historical document…I don’t know alot about what liberal christians believe, so I will stop there. Anways, just keep in mind that not all christians read the bible and not all christians are cruel to other people. I fully respect any religion that doesn’t harm people or animals, which obviously contradicts a lot of the things they teach in conservative christian churches.
Comment by Dustin — 9 November, 2006 #
All of this has great depth and complexity to it but all the faith and heaven/hell chat is solely based on fear of non existance….a good question to ask is if you could exist eternally in a different reality without god would you? Would god be needed? We live in a realm of chaos but are not truely chaotic beings, is this why god is needed? Also why if billions upon billions of humans would like to visually see god, why wont he appear physically? All of us are not in his grac… if thats the case and theres no point in following.
Comment by Baphomet315 — 9 November, 2006 #
Oh uhmmm
150. Why did you waste so much time arguing nothing ? I’m an athiest, and generally think that christians are stupid — but honestally, theres nothing really thought provoking here, its just inane questions from somme douche bag that thinks he has some authority over christian douche bags to make them actually want to fill this out. Most of these questions can be easily, and RATIONALLY answered, if of course you’re not a total moron.
Comment by cat exe ok ok — 9 November, 2006 #
ey idiot… read the bible.. explains everything in there for you..
Comment by Idiot.. — 9 November, 2006 #
“Why do you think it is that the ancient Greeks, who had a very liberal sexual morality, had many fewer sex crimes (compared to the population) than the United States, which is 85% Christian?”
I didn’t read them all… but this one jumped out at me. I’d like to know how somebody arrived at the number of sex crimes committed by these “Greeks” when we don’t even know the population of any of the city-states they occupied. They didn’t have police. The vast majority of sex crimes would have been kept quiet if they involved a citizen victim, and would not have even been considered a crime if they involved slaves. Using the term “Greeks” while attempting to state a fact relevant to their entire culture indicates a fundamental misunderstanding of their history. This question is moot.
Comment by Boodus — 9 November, 2006 #
WOW!!…First off I type with two fingers so bear with me please..Please read this to the end…it wont be long cause I can only type this way or keep my interest in one subject for so long..I should have been taking riddilin instead of speed listening to eddy vedders rederick back in the day ( He sucks by the way)..well pearl jam was good until he hooked up with neil young…dont get me started on rage..haha..What was the subject?..kidding…Everyone seems to really know what they are talking about on this page..Thought I would add this…Know one really knows where or what is next for us…My Dad was a preacher and we lived with a church atached to our house..I have brothers and sisters all of which are devided on theyre beliefs…I personally believe you can smoke pot rob kill snort coke crack rocks and a common disregard for human life around you if you think that that it dosnt matter after you are dead….basicly if you dont give a fuck and you thought it diddnt matter than you are ok…but here is the problem..maybe you are like me and know what is right and wrong?..be very carfull you might just not be able to sit with God and feel his power and …I have felt this it is really unexplainable..No I wasnt high or drunk or crazy or anything like that..I am like you..I skated..still party..work all the time and now I get really fucked up on the weekends..so what..Im sure Jesus dosnt Mind..He would probably rather that I provided more time for Myself so that life would be more enjoyable for me but,,Im working on that and maybe we all should..cause what really matters is us…Thats why we would rather end up in his presence later but you can do it now too…yes you try this when you go to sleep…close your eyes and ask him to visit you…Not God or Jesus but the spirit of them both kinda…thats anothe topic..now..be very still…dont try hard or pray…just recognise that you are willing to meet him for about 20 seconds…now breath in deep..and then out..after 5 times or so you will see through the darkness and then fell him…Its really crazy….like nothing youve felt before…you will also realize that he is really easilly hurt..Weird?..BTW Im not a christian in any sense rally I just want you guys to know that He is real..Its somthing you need to feel for youself cause everyone is crazy with theyre trying to save souls shit..just try it…if this makes any sense tommorrow please post back..Im kind of wondering what this will do for everyone else cause Im a little aprehensive on telling other people …so…bookmark…do it tonight…post back..thanks..Peace
Comment by me — 9 November, 2006 #
lol gg pwnt christians got owned, and what kind of fucking Christian are you “me”?
“god” is a cruel mother fucker, he’d rather send a murderer to heaven that sucks up to his pompous ass than the murder victim who was nice and didnt believe in a fuckin book called the bible written by a group of horny, drunk men years ago
Comment by lol — 9 November, 2006 #
Over half of these so called rebuttles to Christianity are a bunch of half-truths and flat out mis-interpretations of scriptures. Utter non-sense a person who knows nothing about the topic but has everything to say.
Comment by danharr — 9 November, 2006 #
Hey poster “lol” did you even read everything I posted?..You obviously dont believe in God so you have nothing to worry about..Im saying..people who know wrong…not suck ups should check themselves..Kinda like a puppy…you are the puppy..(no offense)..who dosnt understand so you are in contempt of nothing..you dont know your wrong…so live it up!..somewhere inside you if you do think about it you might see.. He only cares about your love and happiness…He would rather you care for your own good that way you can see what your existance is about…you……either way one day you will..Think about it…
Anyway..keep me posted everyone on my above post it is important to me…Thanks
Comment by me — 9 November, 2006 #
First of all i would like to say that i do not follow any religion, however i respect all the veiws of all ppl. it is there free will to follow these religions and nobody here is in any position to judge them.
do you think its funny to say “christians are stupid” ?
no. that is plain discrimination and one of the reasons why this world is in such bad shape.
its like saying “all blacks should be slaves”
i see no reason why we cant critisize in a mature and respectful manner. everyone here can and should critisize because that is how we grow as a society
this goes for people that are religous too. you get mad at us for questioning it when you are making us try to question our beliefs in religion.
as far as the ideas of whoever wrote this, i can agree on some of them, for i question religion myself (in a responsible manner)
i look into every religion i can and do in fact question them all but will never NEVER disrespect people for following it.
so i hope that some of you who replied to this and were complete dicks about it (you know who you are) can grow up and state your opinions in a grown manner
thank you for all who did though. i love hearing other peoples views.
peace
Comment by Tyribbit — 9 November, 2006 #
BTW this is what Im talking about………………………………………………………..
(reposted so I could fix the typos)
Try this when you go to sleep…close your eyes and ask him to visit you…Not God or Jesus but the spirit of them both kinda…thats another topic..now..be very still…dont try hard or try to pray…just be willing to meet him for about 20 seconds…Now breath in deep..and then out..after 5 times or so you will see through the darkness and youll feel him…Its really crazy….like nothing youve felt before…you will also realize that he is really easilly hurt..Weird?..I dont quite get that part?…BTW Im not a christian in any sense really I just want you guys to know that He is real..Its somthing you need to feel for youself cause everyone is crazy… with theyre always trying to save your soul and shit..I personaly dont give a fuck
Just try it…if this makes any sense tommorrow please post back..Im kind of wondering what this will do for everyone else cause Im a little aprehensive on telling other people …so…bookmark…do it tonight…post back..thanks..Peace
Comment by me — 9 November, 2006 #
In the 22nd century, Earth is a polluted, over-crowded dump. One group of “scientists” predicted that in 20 years man will be able to colonize Mars. The news broke out. Hope was everywhere. People started to pick up their lives again. Crime rates went down. All this in the hope that they can all go to the new frontier and start their lives there in a new and clean world. However, one organization (formed by these “scientists”) claims to have exclusivity to the planet, and the requirement to get there was to sign up with them, and undergo a program to prepare them for this journey. While all this is going on, a small minority of skeptics who believe that Earth, the only planet they know which humans can live on, the only planet that has ever been the cradle of life for the human civilisation, can be saved, and that the colonization of Mars is likely to fail. Due to their “radical” idea, this small group of people are branded foolish by the so-called future-Martians, who continue to pollute and consume resources at an alarming rate, convinced that they will watch cable and have ice-cream on the red planet in 20 years time. In the meantime, other organisations which also claim to have the same exclusivity mushroomed, funded by large rival corporations…….
20 years later, not a single blade of grass was planted on Mars, and the program was extended by another 20 years.
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
Three words for the writer who clearly has not read the Bible: STAY IN CONTEXT
Comment by Rj — 9 November, 2006 #
It seems to me that this is a childish argument. The points made are true from one outlook but not from another. The fact is that religion is a belief system, and can not be held true for all people. The different sects of Christianity are proof enough of that. I have waded through many different religions and belief systems: Christianity, Judaism. The Muslim faith,.Buddhism, various pagan faiths. None of them completely answer every question and none are with sins in the past. For those who claim that faith in a religion is a cause of the troubles that humans are facing, think again. Faith does not produce avarice, lust, anger these are traits that humans have in them, they are the monsters that we most face. Some use faith to deal with these traits others use faith as a mask to hide behind while they preform the sins. Faith does not make a person stupid, nor does mocking faith make a person correct. The truth is with the individual think about what you believe or what you choose not to believe. Remember that the persecution of a persons beliefs by pointing out the past mistakes of the belief systems, is still persecution.
Comment by RJ — 9 November, 2006 #
Yes yes, go on…..
Comment by Harry Chen — 9 November, 2006 #
Hello all I just wanted to expand a couple of points from the conversation I was having with slowbus earlier.
1. If all I have to do to be saved is accept Christ as savior, & I can then go out & murder people, in the name of the Lord! Would’nt this be exactly what alot of christians have been doing for the past 2,000 years? Does absolution absolve you of all moral responsiblity? it does seem to.
2. All sin is the same in the eyes of the Lord & if I commit a sin in my heart (fantasize about doing it) then it is the same as doing it. Lets get this in perspective. If I think of stealing an apple from the supermarket, in Gods eyes I’m in the same catagory as a child murderer? or say Hitler? Or if I lead a life helping other’s & bringing love & peace to the world, if I beleive not in Christ, I’m gonna burn. But if I’m the worst serial killer & rapist as long as I prophess to Christ as Lord I’m trotting off to Heaven? come on, does any of this really make sense on a literal level?
PLease don’t think I’m personally attacking you slowbus, I think your a nice guy, or christians, I have good friends who are christians. I’m just using extreme examples to point something out.
Comment by Marc C — 9 November, 2006 #
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was w/God, and the Word was God ……. JOHN 1:1 So give up the whole (English) word/question/answer thing here and just cry out to Jesus [ think in terms of 100 years from today and get a life/ one w/God
Please don’t let your 15oz. brains keep you from receiving God’s gift of His only Son just because you think you would have done it differently if you were Him ! rick
Comment by rick — 10 November, 2006 #
so was mary a fucking whore or what ? virgin my ass
Comment by lol — 10 November, 2006 #
and “me” you fagass i was referring to this racist comment:
ok, first of fuck you why don’t you actually post the quotes in stead of the numbers? i hope you go to hell and get raped by a big black gay man
Comment by me — 3 September, 2006
Comment by lol — 10 November, 2006 #
Oh dear lOl, not a happy camper, what are you going on about?
Hello Rick I’m not sure what you are going on about either.
Here’s a reply if that last post was to me –
In the begining was God speaking English? I hardly think so! To suppose he was is very arrogant. Think a hundred years from now? I try to think a few thousand. Anyways was’nt the creation story allegorical? God moved upon the waters of the deep. Do U think He was floating over the atlantic? I think I’ts meaning is very mysterious, it’s one of the most profound set of sentences in the bible.
& by the way I beleive in one God, allways have done. I just don’t subscribe to your particular brand of religion, or any for that matter. Most, if not all religions beleive in one God. Don’t beleive me? look into it it’s true. As an example look at the ancient egyptian religion of Heliopolis. The Heliopolitian beleifs centered around a one creator God “Atum” who created the universe. All the other Egyptian Gods were aspects of “his” personality. The Heliopolitian religion is one of the oldest on the planet, I think we owe it some credance. Many religions share the stories of a being creating the universe, & one God, christianity does not hold a monopoly on this.
The point I’ve been making is I don’t think a sane human being can say catagorically that their religion is the only right one. & that, is it not just the differing languages & cultures describing & colouring, in a large part, the same ideas & things?
Doesn’t spirituality have universal laws & truths?
If Jesus were alive today would he not himself think it best to do away with religion? What do you think?
Comment by Marc C — 10 November, 2006 #
Anyway I don’t think I’ll waste any more time on this one. Carry on being a bunch of self righteous A-holes, & if we do have to stand before God & give account of our lives, i’m pretty sure most christians are gonna be in a pretty fine mess trying to explain the fuck up they made of everything! Anyway all, Good night & good luck
Elvis has left the building!
P.S. To any Big Black Gay men out there – Jesus was probably Big, He was probably Black & He was most probably Gay – So keep up all the good work, He Loves You. Peace. X
Comment by Marc C — 10 November, 2006 #
OK, so I’m back, could’nt resist. I was reading through the above posts & saw Harry Chen raises a very interesting point & argument about pascal’s wager
Cut & paste the link to look it up.
http://www.iep.utm.edu/p/pasc-wag.htm
As slow bus explained, although I don’t think he got the point Harry was trying to make. If I beleive God exists, & he does’nt, I lose nothing. If I beleive he does’nt exist & he does, I lose everything. Right? WRONG! There are so many different beleifs, that for this to work you would have to beleive all of them! This by the nature of religions demanding that you only worship one of them makes beleiving them all impossible, if you want to the reap the possible rewards each one promises. e.g. If I beleive christianity, die & Allah is sitting in heaven I’m doomed, If I beleive in the muslim faith & Odin is sat in heaven I’m probably doomed as well.
The logical & rational conclusion to this argument, if following evidentialism is to not beleive in anyones elses God at all! or any God for that matter!
Comment by Marc C — 11 November, 2006 #
But to prevent insanity, one must have meaning. Pick one (or don’t) and stop arguing about the hidden logic to explain something that, in it’s own nature, is illogical. Silent confusion is peace for a time and whatever I want to believe I shall regardless of your imposing thoughts.
Comment by Codyt — 11 November, 2006 #
Yeah, god doesnt exists blah blah etc etc. It’s all been said before. These kind of things have no real purpose imo. The over-zealous are so blinded by their ignorance that nothing will change their mind. They are so afraid of death that they created a magical happy land and based infi stories on it and it’s creation. They have become so absorbed in this false reality that they are afraid to think or base observations on fact and not folklore. It’s a shame that the over-zealous little fags cant open their eyes…
Comment by AKA Phire — 11 November, 2006 #
All babies are Athiest. Life can be filled with beauty & meaning without belief. Lets break down the word belief- BE-LIE-F. Insanity=Religion=Breeds Ignorance.
Comment by Marc C — 11 November, 2006 #
ok first of all wtf who cares if god exists or not and who’s christain, if you truly believe that god does or does not exist then it doesnt matter what other people think like seriously this is the most pointless argument ever both science and christianity are religions so ya
Comment by omg... — 11 November, 2006 #
Science is not a religion, sir. Religion is a form of spirituality and an element in your life that influances choices. Science is.. something more relevent.
Comment by AKA Phire — 11 November, 2006 #
religion –
1. a beleif in, or the worship of, a god
or gods. 2. a particular system of beleif or worship, such as Christianity or Judaism. 3. anything to which one is totally devoted & which rules one’s life: (mountaineering is his religion). 4. the monastic way of life.
science –
1.the formal study of(a particular aspect of) the natural world, through observation & experiment. 2 the knowledge gained by such study. 3 any area of knowlege obtained using, or arranged according to, formal principles: political science. 4 aquired skill or technique, as opposed to natural ability. (latin – scientia, – knowledge)
Therefore it would be correct english to say -
1. Science is his religion & he follows science religiously.
(If one is totally devoted to science)
2. He is scientific in his approach to religion.
(If he follows religion to set principles or aquired skill)
(incidentally there is a branch of religion called christian science, not to mention the scientologists (vomit). (two seperate groups))
Comment by Marc C — 12 November, 2006 #
[[[[[[OK, so I’m back, could’nt resist. I was reading through the above posts & saw Harry Chen raises a very interesting point & argument about pascal’s wager]]]]]]]
BELIEVE (hehe) me Marc C, I couldn’t either when he tried to sell me that idea. That only shows how much respect some people really have for their “faith”. I don’t even know if that word still applies.
Comment by Harry Chen — 12 November, 2006 #
To me, it was like talking to a door to door salesman selling Vaccum cleaners with a lifetime moneyback guarantee.
We all know there is no such thing.
Comment by Harry Chen — 12 November, 2006 #
LOL.
If God’s will is infallible, & He wanted us all to beleive in Christ he would have hard wired our brains to beleive it.
Thank God! for sanity & rationalism.
Comment by Marc C — 12 November, 2006 #
I would like to take this opportunity to suggest an idea. An idea I “believe” not to be exclusive and unprecedented.
From a human perspective, in order for certain “systems” to be considered functional and therefore acceptable, it is absolutely important to veer away from the truth. While for most animals this “deviation” is necessary for their day to day operations, to be totally ignorant of the truth that this discourse is relative of, is to be childish, or to be simply an animal.
Consider the CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) monitor. We all(some of you out there don’t) know that it has an attribute called “refresh rate”. In truth, the CRT is not able to produce moving image. The illusion of a moving image, hence a video, is the product of many millions of images flashed across the glass display in the short time of a second. While we all (ok, so be it) know that a high refresh rate is the desired attribute of a good CRT monitor, we all know, and deliberately fool our brains using this high refresh rate into believing (yes, believeing) that we are actually watching a moving video. I won’t touch on how even a single picture is an illusion because in truth the CRT displayes in lines. Then there’s a dimension of truth called the “particle” which I am equally if not more reluctant to touch on.
The point I am trying to make is that while certain things are accepted as the way they appear to us because it seems easier that way and probably more comforting, we still have to understand its underlying principles, so we don’t end up telling our children that a fish is really swimming in the TV.
Comment by Harry Chen — 12 November, 2006 #
…..That there really is a fish swimming in the TV. Pardon my English. My native language is…I don’t have one.
Comment by Harry Chen — 12 November, 2006 #
This is a very interesting article about :
The Holographic Universe. (Google it)
http://www.crystalinks.com/holographic.html
(read it)
World wake up!
Comment by Marc C — 12 November, 2006 #
I find this rather eerie, but I like the idea.
Comment by Harry Chen — 12 November, 2006 #
Posts like this always make me laugh. You are allowed to bitch about Christianity and say how stupid it is and so on. No problem, most christians in developed countries have embraced freedom of speech and have to hear this. Now if you or whoever you got the post from is so wise. Why doesn’t he do the same thing for the Koran and Islam? So I’m sorry you get no props for these supposedly insightful questions. Questions that people have been grappling with since before the Church stopped putting people to death for disagreement. Now if your friend had posed these questions about Christianity in Spain during the inquisition or about Islam in Iran today I would want to listen. And last thing most people don’t know crap about what they believe in anyway. Like you said most Christians don’t know jack about the bible, but in the same way most people who believe in evolution don’t know jack about that either (By the way u can poke holes in evolutionary theory by the way, hence the term theory). Basically people believe what they believe for reasons that might make sense to them, and besides u r not going to convince any Christian to your point of view by this post. So as Christians say go on preaching to the choir hope u enjoy it.
Comment by naz — 12 November, 2006 #
Hello naz. I don’t believe in christianity or evolution, not whole heartedly anyway, why do you need to beleive one or the other? Why also would you need to believe either God exists or does’nt exist? There are plenty of other more open minded views of reality.
As to your insinuation that christianity is not a threat to people or to the world? what planet are you living on!? If the powers that B had their way, we would all be controlled with christianity, especially in america.
The most powerfull man on the planet (George, lets have WWIII Bush (vomit)) is a “born again” & is one of the biggest threats to the peace, stability & freedom of the world. In my country England, most people believe this to be true! & when, it could be argued, as a result of “christian ideals” & fundamentalism the middle east is likely to & could explode into a war that takes out millions & has resulted in the deaths of almost millions, hundreds of thousands at the least, in Iraq. It needs to said that this whole christian way of thinking needs to be brought into question & the “believers” held accountable & made to explain their convictions.
It will look well if the whole shit house does go up in flames & America & bush have their way & bomb Iran with nuclear devices on another set of outragous lies. Leading I would think to a world war or something close. What is Bush gonna say to God?
“Oh gee God I though I was just doing your will, killing all those inocents, I thought it was the christian way”.
If there is such a thing as God, I don’t think he’s gonna be too amused, do you?
Comment by Marc C — 12 November, 2006 #
But anyway carry on in your thinking that absolves you from any moral reponsibility or responsibility for the problems of society & the planet.
I see you have not bothered to even try to answer any of the valid points that I put to you in any of the above post’s.
Your “unquestionably” right? I suppose.
Have you considered that you may be “wrong”?
God help you if you are….
Comment by Marc C — 12 November, 2006 #
“I see you have not bothered to even try to answer any of the valid points that I put to you in any of the above post’s”.
The questions I put are addressed to any christian.
Sorry if I appear to be ranting, I hold strong opinion on what is going on in the world at the present time. I am completly open to peruasion & ideas if someone can come up with some solid answers. I think this discussion is good. I trawl the net & I havent come across the question before of “christian explain thyself”. I think it’s about time they did!
Comment by Marc C — 12 November, 2006 #
Great list! I’m sending this off the next time I get an annoying Christian email forward.
Comment by Cora — 14 November, 2006 #
A drunk man in an Oldsmobile
They said had run the light
That caused the six-car pileup
On 109 that night.
When broken bodies lay about
And blood was everywhere,
The sirens screamed out eulogies,
For death was in the air.
A mother, trapped inside her car,
Was heard above the noise;
Her plaintive plea near split the air:
Oh, God, please spare my boys!”
She fought to loose her pinned hands;
She struggled to get free,
But mangled metal held her fast
In grim captivity.
Her frightened eyes then focused
On where the back seat once had been,
But all she saw was broken glass and
Two children’s seats crushed in.
Her twins were nowhere to be seen;
She did not hear them cry,
And then she prayed they’d been thrown free,
Oh, God, don’t let them die!”
Then firemen came and cut her loose,
But when they searched the back,
They found therein no little boys,
But the seat belts were intact.
They thought the woman had gone mad
And was travelling alone,
But when they turned to question her,
They discovered she was gone.
Policemen saw her running wild
And screaming above the noise
In beseeching supplication,
Please help me find my boys!
They’re four years old and wear blue shirts;
Their jeans are blue to match.”
One cop spoke up, “They’re in my car,
And they don’t have a scratch.
They said their daddy put them there
And gave them each a cone,
Then told them both to wait for Mom
To come and take them home.
I’ve searched the area high and low,
But I can’t find their dad.
He must have fled the scene,
I guess, and that is very bad.”
The mother hugged the twins and said,
While wiping at a tear,
He could not flee the scene, you see,
For he’s been dead a year.”
The cop just looked confused and asked,
Now, how can that be true?”
The boys said, “Mommy, Daddy came
And left a kiss for you.”
He told us not to worry
And that you would be all right,
And then he put us in this car with
The pretty, flashing light.
We wanted him to stay with us,
Because we miss him so,
But Mommy, he just hugged us tight
And said he had to go.
He said someday we’d understand
And told us not to fuss,
And he said to tell you, Mommy,
He’s watching over us.”
The mother knew without a doubt.
That what they spoke was true,
For she recalled their dad’s last words,
I will watch over you.”
The firemen’s notes could not explain
The twisted, mangled car,
And how the three of them escaped
Without a single scar.
But on the cop’s report was scribed,
In print so very fine,
An angel walked the beat tonight
on Hwy. 109
Comment by Anonymous — 14 November, 2006 #
If the purpose of this whole discussion was to get somebody to explain why an allmighty christian god has not fixed all of mankinds problems, why is everybody talking about having to have faith in him for it to happen. And why are the other gods not doing their share of the work.
The answer is simple, there is no such thing as an allmighty god. Let me state someone else’s idea on the subject.
Have you ever seen or could you imagine a square with no right angles? Of course not they don’t exist and not even an allmighty god could create one.
The idea of man being made in god’s image always makes me laugh, because he really screwed up the universe. Awesome as it may seem to us little things everywhere you look there are flaws in the design of things. A human being would have been much more effient and needed less holes iof he had been designed better. Surely god would have not made mistakes.
If god had sent his son to die for the removal of sin, that would surely make him an accesory to murder.
But there again jesus knew he was immortal, at least I guess daddy told him what was going to happen.
Comment by mister2u — 14 November, 2006 #
Christians…….leave us godless folks alone. If you’re not happy with what you see, you have a choice of not coming in here. We don’t go to your church and question you guys about why you poke your noses into secular affairs.
Comment by Harry Chen — 15 November, 2006 #
Christians…….leave us godless folks alone. If you’re not happy with what you see, you have a choice of not coming in here. We don’t go to your church and question you guys about why you poke your noses into secular affairs.
Comment by Harry Chen
A. Harry, this entire shout out is intended for Christians to defend/explain their answers to the questions posed by the author. We are not poking our noses anywhere we were not asked to. You are Godless but you have spent a lot of time on this shout.
Comment by Lyon — 16 November, 2006 #
Ok this is my second post, I have read over all that has been said since my last post. First off GOD is not the end all answer to the problems that people of the world have. The point of GOD in a Jewish-Christian-Muslim faith is to provide a better life for those who believe. He does not hard wire people to follow him because his greatest gift was free will, and he does not correct the problems of the world because this life is a test. This is clear if you have read the book (any of them really). I can not tell you the were because I am not big into religion, but I pity those who have to validate their selves, their religions, or their lack of religion by attacking he beliefs of others. Deal with the hardships and try to educate yourself. If you have something to say email me at rjd121@gmail.com
Comment by RJ — 16 November, 2006 #
to rj
why the hell should a god who is capable of creating perfection have to test the poor bastarbs he created.
doesn’t he have confidence in his own work.
when i was a kid, i built a big train layout with little villages and hills and all the other realistic things i could afford, it took a long time and a lot of effort. do you think i was going to let even my little brother go and ruin it. no way man.
when god created paradise do you really think he would let some screwed up angle mess it up for him. again no way.
the only way i can image a creater doing something like that is because he gets his jollies by watching us suffer.
and who the hell was free will, nobody i know does.
read maslow,
first of all we are tried down by the need to fulfil our biological needs. then because we were “created” as social animals we are and always will be tried to the rest of the herd.
i don’t know were we came from and i don’t really care, but the last thing i want to belive is that we are just puppets with some wacko pulling our strings
Comment by mister2u — 16 November, 2006 #
Great articles from the believers….they always seem well adjusted and always give great answers.
One non believer sho stuck up for science and religion also gave a very good essay.
I guess atheists must grow up, as if they don’t believe in stuff, spending their whole time getting angry and tryig to convince others to not believe , is abit shallow. I say I don’t believe in atheists.
Atheists don’t exist. You believe in something some way or another, and many of my friends who claim to be atheists read their horoscopes, and also mess about with new age philosophies….all they do is tell themselevs God doesn’t exist and then turn to paganism or the occult, which is basically the opposite….the devils tricks and false religions to ensnare people….the irony is, they are not really being honest to their atheism, as when I ask why they deny God and then mess with the devils games, they say they don’t believe in the devil and don’t really believe in the occult having any power and being relgious but see it as a form of strange science which taps into their subconsious. Some guy I knew claimed to summon demons, and when i asked how he managed to go from a atheist to a black magician saying God didn’t exist, he then said he didn’t believe it was really all about devil and God etc, but that his summoning demons was some form of summoning externalied negative personalities withing his depper conscious and that really he was summoning his sunconsious which manifested itself as a ‘demon’….okay, so it basically shows that even people who don’t believe in some stuff, still will practice evil things because they claim it’s not for real but some strange complex subconsious mind over matter psychology ! people who do this kid themselevs and try and justify playing with the devil as a ‘ancient psychological’ manifetation of themselves,….this then makes them think that their sinning is ok, and makes them think they can do it as it’s not a submission ro belief in the supernatural and messing about with dangerous dark forces….how misled they are !
Anyway science is just what you know. ‘Scienta’ in latine means simply ‘knowledge’ so science cannot explain everything but is merely just ‘knowledge, what we know.
In anycase, miracles magic and science are not two of a different kind of things, but rather the same. You see God created the Universe, so if you could get into his mind or read how he can eprform miracles and how he can do what he does and did, then I guess people with the right power and energy copuld possibly recreate such miraculous feats. You see what we know is ’scienta’ knowledge, and what we don’t we dismiss as supernatural. But as I say, if you see a miracle, it is all part of God’s science…..even demons know some of it, as they were once angels and so know how to do supernatural things and passe dthis knowledge onto black magicians and pagan cultures before the fall of the angels, so yes magick etc can work if done correctly but would be scientifically explained if we knew the mechanics of it all, but what man works out is science, and what God or demons do is called miracle or magick.
Just like a mobile phone would be miraculous in the middle ages, you know, a voice coming from a disembodied object with no apparent power source or wires and allowing one to speak ‘magically’ to someone else instantly, then so would anything else we haven’t figure out how to do, a ‘miracle’.
So science and supernatural are ths same thing.
In anycase, in the Bible it explains how everything is for the good of man, so why is the world a polluted and costly mess to live in ?!
Because of powerful evil men !
God made everything free, and there are patents and proven methods of power generators which give out more power than they get in, and are called over unity machines. A guy I know made one based on designs by Nikola Tesla, and well after a few months when the power companny checekd his meter and saw he hadn’t used power but was obviously suspicious, they found his machien and confiscated it telling him that in the Uk people had to pay for their power, and if he did it again, he would be arrested. he was fined the months of useage which didn’t appear on his bill, so as to teach him a lesson.
You see science is surpressed by the government, and oil compannies. The guy Stanly Meyer, who came up with a water engined car which extracted and burnt the hydrogen from water an gave out pure oxygen from the exhaust pipe, was assasinated by the government to shut him up.
We would not need pollutiing expensive to run cars if we could stick water into our engines !
YOu see, so simple, and it says this in the Bible that God made the world perfect and so simple to live in…..man complicates and thus makes it expensive to fleece the public, and then pollutes it as a result and keeps people poor !
Don’t blame God for man’s evils….
Also progress I hjear you cry !? ho can religion hold progress back ?! The pagans lived in a mess, but when Christianity took hold, people believed in dignity and that they were not merely animals, and look at the composers like Beethoven, and Bach etc, who were inspired by God to write amazing classical music….this was cultrue and artistic progress, and the amazing churches and temples, all intricately built and needing amazing perfction….and what bout the amazing renaissance artwork by religiously inspired daVInci and Michelangelo etc…..is this not progress enough !?
Oh and DaVinci wasn’t a pagan and didn’t do the shit they say in the daVinci code which people actually read and believe. Funny how the Bible is not beleived despite it’s proof, yet people place their faith in the poorly written stories of a book which is fiction and based on an old hoax in France ! People wanna believe what they want to believe, and will find and justify it even if it has not got a leg to stand on.
Anyway, God bless even the atheists and pagans, and hope he will show you the light….just ask him and truly mean it, and he will answrr, I assure you.
By the way I had a failing heart and nearly died of a stroke a year and a half ago. i lay on a bed my herat pulsing out of my chest, a problem I had for ages, and flt like at that point I was going to get a stroke or heart attack as I nearly had some years back….all of a sudden I imagined images in my head of a guy with a beard and powerful presence, and though i wans’t hallucinating, I had this strong htought in me, and then ords like someone speaking in me said I was still young and it wasn’t my time to go, and that he had a purpose for me, and it was never too late….and I got off the bed, and my heart wa sok, and since then never suffered from palpitations or heart fluttr or potential herat attacks…..infact I was tested by doctros who asked what the hell i ahd done as they didn’t think I was the same guy they knew and diagnosed all those years !
Of course a atheist will say my body miraculously healed me and I hallucinated to make it believeable, but I wills ay the simpler understanding is that I was healed by my faith and God intervened to give me a second chance at life…..
God bless
Jimmy
Comment by Jimmy Jones — 16 November, 2006 #
Hello Jimmy,
You raise some interesting points, especially about the enviroment & free? forms of energy, zero point energy exists. We could live with enough power for everyone in a high technology world, without any pollution. The technology to do this has been around a long time. Maybe one day we will, but if you know, you know, if you don’t, well try & get educated on this stuff, newtonian physics has some glaring holes! But I suppose this is a matter for another thread.
I have some experience of practising the occult & Christianity, not at the same time though! Both lead me to a dead end. Yes there are dark forces as well as those of the light, they exist, it’s a big old universe out there.
Your inference that anything new agey is “evil” is absolute nonesense. Yes there are practises that are maybe not too healthy for people, but we are going through & approaching a big spiritual paridigm shift & I can assure you that a fundamentalist Christian attitude is not the one to have on this one.
You righty point out that science could be an explanation for the miracles, yes you are right. All the “works” of the bible could be the demonstrations of high technology & it would appear as magic. I’m sure some of the secret stuff some of our goverments hold would appear as magic & the paranormal to alot of people as well. Following this argument, is it not entirely possible that the God of the bible, especially of the old testament, but also of the new, was in fact a technologically advanced alien race messing about with us? I think it is very likely. It would mean however, if it were true that the modern Christian beleifs are a nonesense.
I have no idea of how you get from Atheism to the devil! To be Athiest is a rational & in most cases humanitarian position to hold. If someone is an Atheist then this does not make them angry, unbalenced or out to get Christians. Atheism is a perfectly sane way of viewing the world & living life. I myself am not an Athiest, but I admire their position. The problem comes, & this has been pointed out in the above threads – What gives some Christian’s the beleif to say that they are ultimatly, uquestionably right, in the face of, logic, science & common sense, & all the people of every other faith or of Atheist persuasion is off to burn. I know not all Christians hold this position, but it seems, especially in America a great many do. You have rightly pointed out that there is no scientific evidence or proof to say that any Christian beleif is true, so how can Christians be so sure?
I would say that we should be free to hold any beleif we wish, as long as these beleifs do not harm another. That there are other ways of looking at the world apart from Christianity or Atheism & that there is a possibilty that the exact nature, truth or reality of the universe is radically different to how anyone really supposes & that we have not found it yet.
Another point to make is that the pagans did not “live in a mess” Christianity has not bought perfection & utopia to the world. In the reverse at many times it has bought, genocide, wars, & torture. It’s ideals have also played a part in the industrial revolution & to many a mind this has sown the seeds of our own destruction, as a species.
There is a strong argument to say that we would be far better off without any religion & that the only way for a “utopian” society is one in which there is no religion at all. Maybe in a few thousand years man will have grown up & our beleifs, as a species wll no longer revolve around these unprovable closed minded belief systems called religion. Maybe we can operate by totally new paradigms which hold not the destruction of these former ways of thinking…..
And… your words –
“.all of a sudden I imagined images in my head of a guy with a beard and powerful presence”
I think the emphasis here is on the word imagined!
If I beleived all the stuff I had imagined as true, I would never have come down off the acid, or out of the nut house.
LOL
Comment by Marc C — 16 November, 2006 #
i am currently responding to all these questions that seem to be hindering you from a closer relationship with Him…
much love
Comment by Yohan — 17 November, 2006 #
Another response to your latest here, J.
Comment by albert — 17 November, 2006 #
to Jimmy Jones
Dictionaries give the following definitions
ATHEIST, noun,
a person that believes in no god
GOD, noun,
1. The supernatural being conceived as the perfect omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions
2. Any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
3. A being who is responsible for, or given credit for the creation of everything
Pagans, nature worshipers and star readers are not atheist, just like hindus and budhists are not.
Atheist do exist Jimmy Jones, I’m one. And I’m not one because of ignorance.
Being an atheist I have to deal often with the stupidity and ignorance of believers. I have to put up with questions like “So you believe in the devil then?”, “Are you not scared of being sent to hell?”
These questions are proof of why so many people believe in somesort of god, they are scared not to!!!!!!
How can you possible argue that god must exist because there are free power scources on earth and the goverments and rich people are hiding it from us. If you think that by convincing people that evil exists, therefore the devil must exist, therefore god must exist, it’s a very weak argument.
Miracle
1. Any amazing or wonderful occurrence
2. A marvellous event manifesting a supernatural act of God
I don’t think too many people would deny the fact of the first definition occuring, falling in love with the right person the first time would fall into that area. What happened to you could also be count as a wonderful thing, but a brain with no oxygen can have wierd effects on your imagination.
the fact that people put their faith in a book about an old hoax is not at all surprising, some have been doing it for almost two thousand years and they still cannot see they truth.
Magic,
1. Any art that invokes supernatural powers
2. An illusory feat; considered magical by naive observers
The first definition uses the word supernateral, a term often used together with the word god.
the second definition contains the word naive, which is usually exepted as a close equivilant to ignorant.
Mans brain, no matter how he got it cannot maintain a state of ignorance and continue to survive. Normal people do everything within their power to learn. Christianity has over the years done a lot to restrict that potetial and keep people in the dark because it benefits them to to so.
People, if you have your reasons for believing whatever you believe that’s fine. But please let us atheists not be feared and hated because we do the same.
Comment by mister2u — 17 November, 2006 #
Junaman-
That certainly was the longest list of attacks on the Bible that I had ever seen, and to be honest, there were a few questions in the lot that were either valid, or that I just do not know enough to answer. But to the discerning eye and educated mind, questions like these that you present are primarily based upon deliberate misinterpretation of Biblical scriptures, citations of passages intentionaly taken out of context for the purpose of putting a negative spin on that which you personally disapprove of, and the foolish presumption that the believers know less than you do about their own religion. Therefore, they are easy to refute. Over the last couple days, I have answered them more out of sport than necessity.
Seeing them for what they really are prevents me from feeling as though I were on the defensive. Personally, i think that any religion, Christianity included, has the potential to be wrong. In addition, the practitioners of said religion are also capable of being wrong, but also of being right. Since nobody knows for sure, why should we not let others believe as they will? Sure, some religions are not content to do this. Religion can be presented to one another, but it should not be force-fed. Now, aetheist explain thyself: Christians endure the popular but hackneyed stereotype of pushing their religion on others, but ironically, it is the aetheists who are often just as guilty if not more, of pushing their DISbelief on others. I believe the word we are looking for is “hypocrisy”…
Do you attack other religions with similiar erroneous assaults, or just Christianity? I never push my beliefs on anyone else, and i don’t attack other religions. I’m sorry that you are incapable of extending that same courtesy, but I am thankfull that my own personal wisdom elevates me above the doubt that your Dan Brown-ish faux-erudite questions might otherwise instill. Christian-bashing is one of the last socially acceptable prejudices, and I hope you enjoy what may one day be the equivalent of hating people of other races or orientations while it still lasts.
I don’t behave in the manner you feebly attempted to portray all Christians as doing, and neither does anyone from my church. So much for your assumptions and generalizations…And if it’s all just a collection of fairy tales anyways, why are you so worried about it?
But despite my unassuming stance on religion, I am steadfast in my beliefs. The more you and others like you try to tell me I am wrong, the more that convinces me I am right. And the more you disagree, the more fun it is for me.
Sorry, not all Christians conform to the trite stereotypes you aetheists love to cling to. Take note, and take care.
Comment by Carl the Viking — 18 November, 2006 #
Carl wrote -
“Christian-bashing is one of the last socially acceptable prejudices”
What!?!!
Does no-one make fun of the –
Mentally ill
Mentally disabled
Foreigners of any kind
People of different beleifs
People of different coloured skin
People with aids
Gays
Lesbians
The elderly
People with new age beliefs
People who practice Wicca or witchcraft
Gothics or people who look different (piercings e.t.c.)
The youth
People in different political parties, or with different social or political beleifs
Drug users
Drug dealers
The homeless
The poor
People who are stupid
People who are single
People who keep alot of cats
Women
Men
The list could go on…
Some of the people on the above list are more acceptable to “bash” depending on which country your in, or which social, political, ethnic, or age group e.t.c. you are in. But I would hardly say Christians are one of the last group’s to be treated with discrimination, which is what you are insinuating!
What planet or society are you living on/in?
Comment by Marc C — 19 November, 2006 #
To Carl the Viking –
I would think that “Christian bashing” only usually goes as far as honest questions & debate. The original post is just questions after all. Why do Christians hate honest questions so much? It is a trait of people in strong denial to become so defensive.
Christianity & its misguided morals could be argued to have caused all kinds of social ills & discrimination, & at its worst the deaths & torture of millions.
We don’t feed Christians to the lions anymore, although it could be argued some Christians deserve to be! LOL.
And if Christians are so sure of their position & the unquestionable “truth” of what they believe, why then can they not discuss the issue & give credible answers instead of rhetorical dogma?
I challenge you to answer the questions that I have put in my above posts, I see no Christian has even bothered to try or give any kind of intelligent answer, I don’t believe there is one.
I know your post was not addressed to me but Junaman doesn’t seem to be entering into this debate very much.
Comment by Marc C — 19 November, 2006 #
I’m sure you haven’t read through all 474 previous comments, Marc, so it would do you well to retract or revise your comment.
I’m pretty sure you’d just rehash some of the arguments Junaman made in my thread with him.
Comment by albert — 19 November, 2006 #
“I’m sure you haven’t read through all 474 previous comments, Marc, so it would do you well to retract or revise your comment.
I’m pretty sure you’d just rehash some of the arguments Junaman made in my thread with him.”
I will retract nothing nor revise anything, I have read through all the questions & all of the posts, many twice. My question’s still stand if anyone can answer them?
Comment by Marc C — 19 November, 2006 #
Marc C-
It isn’t Chrsitianity that has misguided morals, same as other religions; it’s people that can twist them to their own ends. When a person follows those guidelines and has the capacity to be reasonable about it, it stands as a living contradiction to those stereotypes that abound.
I don’t know why Christians would avoid questions like those you ask, or even if that is accurate, but i do know that many of the questions that float around the internet are exactly as i called them: Based on scriptures deliberately taken out-of-context in order to suit an anti-God agenda. In so doing, the people who pose those questions are guilty of the very thing they love to accuse Chrsitians of: Not leaving others to believe as they will. Hence, the hypocrisy.
To be honest, I skipped over many of the posts in order to get on with telling junamn that some people have the clarity of mind and accompanying understanding to see through those types of questions that are really not questions but thinly veiled attacks. This evening, I will look over this thread for your posts, and address any issues you bring up.
Comment by Carl the Viking — 19 November, 2006 #
A. Harry, this entire shout out is intended for Christians to defend/explain their answers to the questions posed by the author. We are not poking our noses anywhere we were not asked to. You are Godless but you have spent a lot of time on this shout.
Comment by Lyon — 16 November, 2006 #
“We”? You speak for ALL christians?
Do you? DO YOU? Answer me.
Comment by Harry Chen — 19 November, 2006 #
To Carl the Viking –
Hello Carl. I understand your enthusiasm to reply to Jumaman, If I were a practising Christian I would as well. Thank you for your considerate reply.
Comment by Marc C — 19 November, 2006 #
Marc C- You are welcome. Despite my caustic demeanor, I do value courtesy.
As far as religion overall goes, it should be so simple, yet mankind overly complicates things, and I am not afraid of saying that Christians have been just as guilty of things as atheists. Both sides have carried out grevious misdeeds over the years, and both sides are guilty of attacking the others instead of nicely presenting theories and adopting a “take it or leave it” attitude. Yes, there is always a possibility that any of us are wrong. It is foolish to believe otherwise, for the existence of God has never been successfully proven OR disproven. It is a faith-based concept, and some people get tired of hearing that, but that doesn’t detract from the legitimacy of the maxim.
I see posts like Junamans all the time, and it’s more amusing than anything else. Most trolls simply settle for saying the equivalent of “The bibel is fals bcuz it contraditcs iself!!1! lol!!1 Everyone knows it!!1” which should be ignored, of course. Others at least go to the trouble of linking to/copying down lists of questions that others have compiled, and presenting that as their own argument. At the top of this shaky pyramid are the ones who actually do just enough research to compose these questions and put a negative slant on them, but not enough to actually seek the truth, because that isn’t part of their agenda.
And why is there such an agenda? Only to counter the Christian agenda of spreading the message, naturally. Which leads back to the question of why people feel they have to force their opinions on others, which again, BOTH sides have been guilty of. But if one has even the slightest understanding of or familiarity with the Bible, one would have to admit that Jesus never forced Himself on anyone, so why would some religious folks feel the need to NOT follow this example? And by doing the same thing, how do atheists become any better than the Christians they hate so much? Simple: they don’t and aren’t.
Sure, I’ll say that if more Christians would adopt a more reasonable attitude about it all, things would probably not get so ugly. I can’t change what they have done in the past, but I sure can make a difference in my own circle of existence by not perpetuating the stereotypes that permeate the internet forums. So far, I have been reasonably successful, as my atheist friends know I am Christian but don’t equate me with the standard stereotypes that prevail. I don’t KNOW if God is out there…but I ‘think’ He is…and I don’t force my opinions and beliefs on others…but I will share them if they are interested, and I will hear theirs in return.
Many Christians think they are right, but also may be misguided. Others may not really be Christian at all, but make public displays of it for whatever reason. Each will answer for themselves when all is said and done, I’m sure. I know I will have my own things to answer for, but I am trying to learn from those around me so I don’t repeat their mistakes.
A
lso, you had shared one of your preferred quotes with us before, and I will return the favor. One of my personal faves is actually from an agnostic bumper sticker, and reads “I don’t know, and neither do you”. I figure, who really knows who’s right? None of us, that’s for sure. Therefore, I will not say another man is wrong simply because they believe differently than I do. But I will fire back if they make the discourteous mistake of attacking that which I personally hold to be true.
I’m not really the converting type, so I won’t presume to try to turn you or anyone else to my choice of spirituality. For this I may be called to account one day, who knows? All I want is for people to notice “Hey, he’s a bit of an asshole sometimes, but if more Christians were like that, they’d be alright.” And in my usual forums, this has happened to a degree, even from some satanists. Stereotypes are easy to identify but hard to shatter. I expect a long, hard road but that doesn’t bother me. I also don’t intend to frequent this forum beyond tonight, because I simply haven’t the time to be everywhere that lists like these pop up. But I wanted to expose it for what it is, and along the way, I gave my word that I would read your posts. And so I did.
Sorry if I don’t quite have the answers you were looking for, or if anyone does. My personal stance is all that I can or will offer, and if it is not cared for, so be it. Just know that I am reasonably well educated about my preferences, and am striving to improve even further upon that. In addition, I will maintain my integrity so as to represent how i feel Christians should act. A small difference is still a difference, I suppose.
Take care, and best of luck on your journey though life.
Comment by Carl the Viking — 19 November, 2006 #
Thanks Carl, best of luck to you too
But I think I’ll give up on anyone providing me with any real answers.
Comment by Marc C — 20 November, 2006 #
Marc -
Define “real” and “honest”.
A lot of the previous posters, younger and older, wrote what they “real”-ly felt from the depths of their pathos. I suppose you do too, but your questions are framed in such a way as to start a polemical argument, not a groundwork for progressive thinking.
Comment by albert — 21 November, 2006 #
It’s a simple question, genuinly asked, if people want to respond in a polemic way, then that is up to them. Christians usually do when faced with questions which “cut to the chase”. What are you refering to as progessive thinking? The Christian paridigm?
Comment by Marc C — 21 November, 2006 #
Oh & look real & honest up in a dictionary for yourself. What do you think I mean?!! I didn’t want the usual robotic dogma, rhetoric & meaningless nonesense.
Comment by Marc C — 21 November, 2006 #
When “real” and “honest” are spoken in a debate, this usually is an indirect ad hominem towards the other person or group stating that they themselves are “dishonest” or “unrealistic” in their responses.
Sometimes it goes to the extent where they accuse the other group of ignorance and a priori irrationalism.
Notice your last comment. BTW, you putting “:)” at the end of it does little to ameliorate your previous quotes:
At least have the courtesy of typing out a thoughtfully spell-checked response.
Comment by albert — 22 November, 2006 #
I’m glad you found my last post amusing, & i’m glad you enjoy my grasp of the english language. Do you have an answer to the honest question I put to any Christians reading the page? If not I really can’t be bothered, I’m bored with trying to rationalize openmindedly with people who think they’re unquestionably right. & yes your right it was an indirect ad hominem you mentula
Comment by Marc C — 22 November, 2006 #
Humorous? Hardly.
As long as you keep on posing rhetorical questions, we’re at an impasse as far as what composes an “honest question”.
BTW, for calling me “mentula”: nice.
Comment by albert — 22 November, 2006 #
The original question I asked was from a genuine desire to know if it could be answered by a Christian. The question is simply put & explained.
Q. How does the name of God “Jesus” (namely but not exclusively) within Christianity, hold power apart from it being a representation of something else. Can we name the nameless as being as if the name becomes the thing in itself? What is the significance of the name “Jesus Christ”? Remember – not what the name represents, the name itself.
The only answer I received was rhetoric about “It was Jesus the man who died for our sins” or something similar.
Are you going to have a go at answering the question?
Remember I do not doubt that Jesus lived, & that he was spiritually advanced. I would also say that he is a spiritual presence that can be invoked. Although I do not hold that either the virgin birth or the resurrection is true. Nor do I subscribe to “we must believe in Christ, because he’s the only way to God & heaven & if we don’t were off to burn, bleat, bleat” mentality.
If you have read my other posts, you can see that I have gone to the trouble of writing them & forming them in an easy to understand way, & written in plain English. Yes I concede, my English spelling is not the best in the world, but I think it’s good enough to know what words I’m spelling, & the meaning I’m imparting.
We can of course have a debate on the meaning of the words “honesty” & “real”, but we will be here forever. Like the words “God” & “truth”. They have been debated endlessly & no one is any closer to a definite agreement where there is a difference of viewpoint/opinion. Incidentally I do think that many Christians are not just being dishonest &
Unrealistic, but I also question their morality & ethics & see them (mainly the fundamentalists, i.e. “born again” & evangelicals’”) Holding dangerous ideals. Christian ideals cause pain, fear & suffering on many levels & scales. The most Christian & Christian’s who hold extreme views live in America. Many high ranking officials & politicians hold these views. Including George “lets kill em’ all” Bush. Instead of an all out campaign against a small minority of Muslim ‘al quiada’ operatives, an almost all out war against all Muslims has been initiated with the war in Iraq, the invasion of Lebanon & the planned bombing of Iran & Syria. All of which is highly illegal in the eyes of international law & amounts in truth to international state sanctioned terrorism by America & Israel. The extreme Judo/Christian viewpoint has played a large part in this. Where are the extreme religious views of both Muslim’s & Christian’s going to take us? God only knows. Religion could end up being the death of us All. So yes I have a problem with people adopting the sheep herd mentality without questioning any of the dogmatic nonsense their religion asks of them to unquestionably accept. If it wasn’t for all this submissive bleating & religious lunacy I don’t think we’d be in such a f**king mess. I honestly believe we would be infinitely better of as a planet without all of the religions & at their best meaningless mumbo jumbo & at their worst highly destructive & dangerous paradigms. Which BTW & IMO (their paradigms) are totally obsolete & will only lead to great disillusion & confusion to the believers in the years to come.
If you have read my posts, it is quite obvious the context to which I used the words “an honest & real answer” -Straight, down to earth. I know the bible, I know the Christian beliefs, and I was raised with a strict C of E upbringing. I have read many times & studied the bible. I am very familiar with its tenets, arguments & assumptions. But I am not an expert or a theologian.
The question is very simple. I don’t think there is an answer that would support Christianity though. But I am trying to get over this or find someone who can answer it in a way that supports the Christian tenets. I think that it is a central question to put to any religion. Although the Buddhist have solved this problem, which is why I admire them so much, (also because they are the only religion which is truly compassionate, non-violent & encompassing to All).
Please Albert stop beating around the bush. Either, if you are a Christian it is a question you can answer or you can’t. It’s that simple.
Comment by Marc C — 22 November, 2006 #
PS. sorry to call you “mentula”. It was said in jest after your insinuations in Latin.
Comment by Marc C — 22 November, 2006 #
Albert if you wanted to read (if you havent) my above posts, they start about a fith of the way up, the 1st one starts with the line -
“Hello all. I’ve read through most of the above posts & there are some interesting points & some drivel as well.”
I see your a philosoper.
Comment by Marc C — 22 November, 2006 #
“but ironically, it is the aetheists who are often just as guilty if not more, of pushing their but ironically, it is the aetheists who are often just as guilty if not more, of pushing their DISbelief on others.on others.”
I’m an aetheist and I tend to let others believe what ever they like. I have never tried to push my DISbelief on others. That would be unethical. None of the other non-believers here seem to be trying to convince anybody to join there ranks either. That would also been un0ethical.
People who have asked you to answer question seem to have done so more in a credibal search of information, which unfortunetly has not been provided.
I think that I also will give up waiting for reasonable answers
Comment by mister2u — 23 November, 2006 #
Why is that Christians demand that they have an explanation for everything, from everyone. But when it comes to their beliefs they blindly accept what they have been told, without a question to its truth or authenticity?
Comment by Marc C — 23 November, 2006 #
Marc,
I appreciated your well-thought out response, but don’t appreciate this generalization.
I’m typing out a full response that I’ll be posting later.
Comment by albert — 24 November, 2006 #
OK thanks
Comment by Marc C — 24 November, 2006 #
First, I would like to thank you for the well-thought out response. Unfortunately, I skimmed over the post(s) that had this question, and admittedly had to re-read this one several times before I understood what you were asking. I’m not sure if I even know now:
God wasn’t nameless. The name of God was at some point known within the Israelite camp, but again at some point between the conquering of the house of Judah and Jesus, they lost it in its entirety (along with the ark).
On “Jesus”, from answeringchristianity.com:
Jesus ( Yeshua ) means in Hebrew “salvation” and not “God saves” .
Yud Shin Waw Ain – this name dosn’t include the word “God” .
Joshua ( Yehoshya ) – Yod Hey – Waw Shin Ain .
Isaya ( Yeshayah ) – Yod Shin Ain – Yod Hey .
These two names are combination of Yod, Shin, Ain – salvation and Yod, Hey – Yahwe.
Yosh Hey ( Yah ) is common short from Yahwe, for example Alleluia comes from “Halelu Yah” – “Glorify Yahwe”.
On “Christ”, from biyn.org:
Christ means Messiah and Anointed. So, the significance of both would be “the Messiah to Glorify Yahwe”.
Okay. But I’m not so sure the “invoked” part is kosher.
Heh. Obviously, I don’t agree with you here. But I can appreciate the humor.
I should apologize. Sorry. It seems that my response has by and large been driven by provocation rather than initially getting an understanding of the person. I’m trying to work on that.
Maybe so, but less the case if we have a common goal.
The ideals themselves are not dangerous in practice: draw your example from Jesus himself. He is his own witness in that regard. It is large groups of adults who think like children (e.g., dogmatically) where the problem lies.
No. “Love your neighbor” and “the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience…” are not pain- or fear-inducing ideals. Again, don’t confuse the heretical examples (including the Crusades) with Jesus himself.
This is probably true.
Yes, but they in reality are extremely hypocritical. Take a look at Foley or Hastert for example.
And I totally disagree with it.
Perhaps you should also look at where the extreme atheist views have taken us as well.
Right. Some things need clarification a la inductive reasoning.
Trust me, it goes both ways. Google “peak oil” and “global warming“. To pin it on religion would be a severe oversimplification. But it has played a big role in catalyzing mass movements. This is arguably more a testament to the nature of people, though.
C of E = Church of England?
I’m curious about this Buddhist connection. If I haven’t answered it, let me know about this.
Okay.
I’ll be reading through your posts. I appreciate the observation.
It’s not a matter of appearing to have an explanation for everything. It’s a matter of confidence in what we believe.
Truth and authenticity aren’t givens, which is why you see so many people leaving the church and why you see some other people like myself strengthened by these questions, as they have been answered already through inductive Bible study or some form of deductive reasoning.
Comment by albert — 25 November, 2006 #
“On “Jesus”, from answeringchristianity.com:
Jesus ( Yeshua ) means in Hebrew “salvation” and not “God saves” .
Yud Shin Waw Ain – this name dosn’t include the word “God” .
Joshua ( Yehoshya ) – Yod Hey – Waw Shin Ain .
Isaya ( Yeshayah ) – Yod Shin Ain – Yod Hey .
These two names are combination of Yod, Shin, Ain – salvation and Yod, Hey – Yahwe.
Yosh Hey ( Yah ) is common short from Yahwe, for example Alleluia comes from “Halelu Yah” – “Glorify Yahwe”.
On “Christ”, from biyn.org:
Christ means Messiah and Anointed. So, the significance of both would be “the Messiah to Glorify Yahwe”.”
As it seems , there are many names & words for God & Christ, & there are others, was not Elijah God incarnate as well. This is without looking at other religions as well & noting the enormous amount of names given to describe God(s). The Muslim faith has about 40 names for God (I’d have to look into it to be sure). But they make an emphasis that God is without name. The Buddhists do not invoke a God by name, “reality simply is as it is”. Systems of spirituality also do not necessarily reference God with a specific name, i.e. Reiki, where the Universal life force energy (a literal translation) suffices to name the reality of the energy or force that they are dealing with. Are all religions pointing & describing the same thing? I think that they are. Is an ultimate or divine, Creator or Being within the clarification of a name? Can we name that which is beyond form, The nameless, the formless? This is my point. Where is the power in the name of God, apart from it’s representation & the significance to it’s believers. Is the power of the name of “Jesus Christ” independent of religion? I do not think it is. I hope the question is a little clearer.
“Okay. But I’m not so sure the “invoked” part is kosher.”
How do we call up upon Christ when we pray or we ask him for healing? Are Christians not evoking his spirit through his name?
No. “Love your neighbor” and “the fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience…”
These can be argued were/are moral guideposts that are not exclusive to Christianity, but share commonality with most other religions & spiritual systems, & humanism. Incidentally these “core” values are far older than Christ & taken in a large part from Buddhism.
C of E = Church of England?
Yes.
I’m curious about this Buddhist connection. If I haven’t answered it, let me know about this.
Buddhism is a very old & highly advanced spiritual system, IMHO it is the best we have to work with from a religious perspective & its people display a spirituality of peace, compassion, non-violence, acceptance & joy, more so than all the other main religions.
Comment by Marc C — 25 November, 2006 #
The name “Elijah” meant “God is Lord”.
That some religions emphasize a nameless God doesn’t necessarily mean that [he] indeed is without one. Buddhism has no invocation because God is essentially nonexistent.
I would disagree. Describing a specific beagle you see walking down the street as a “large, 100lb dog with a wide snout” would be hardly an accurate description of that dog. Another person would say you are being facetious or simply lying.
So it’s a rhetorical question. You assume that God is nameless and formless, whereby lacking a name. Judaism/Christianity is rather contrarian in this case.
You should read about demons in the NT. Jesus is a name that bears a priori authority, the same as Y-HW-H.
Christians don’t “call up upon” Jesus when they pray. Saying “in Jesus’ name” is an invocation of his authority – call it a right, even.
The point is that, regardless of their origin, this central tenet serves as a rebuttal of your claim that “Christian ideals cause pain, fear & suffering on many levels & scales.”
I’m curious. What was the experience like?
So it’s pretty clear that you’re a Buddhist. You should read about the Zen Buddhists in Japan during WWII.
Comment by albert — 26 November, 2006 #
It seems my last comment didn’t go through. Maybe there’s a 500 comment limit?
Comment by albert — 26 November, 2006 #
[...] Marc, I’ve brought the thread over to my site. As it seems , there are many names & words for God & Christ, & there are others, was not Elijah God incarnate as well. [...]
Pingback by Marc thread - on Buddhism and the significance of “naming the nameless” « Fundamentalist Christianity — 26 November, 2006 #