Don’t Avert Your Eyes « Incompetence Inc.

Don’t Avert Your Eyes

2 October, 2006 at 8:36 pm | In Incompetence Exposed | 169 Comments

Recently I came across this post on a Spanish blog that I know little of.

EDIT: Another article I was directed to here

This is something that my country’s media neglected to tell me about in any great form of detail. Sure, I knew these were out there but seeing them first-hand makes you really wonder WHAT THE FUCK THIS ADMINISTRATION IS STILL DOING IN OFFICE.

Yes, it contains disturbing images, but it is something that every single one of you, regardless of nationality or political affiliation should see. And don’t any of you dare look away, you allowed this shit to happen, pay the price.

I’m going to self-censor myself at that… never know what Bush could do to me… (well, actually I do: it involves detaining me with no charges and no right of appeal, for however long he wants)

This is what the government of America does. A government based on freedom, democracy, civil and human rights. The proudest nation in the whole world.

This is what that government has recently advocated and allowed through legislation.

This is what America’s civilised country supports…

Technorati Tags: torture, America, Abu Ghraib, Bush, Congress, Iraq, war

169 Comments »

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These few people are in prison for there actions. There are bad people in everywhere. Teachers, Preachers, Police, Politicians, Bloggers and yes Soldiers. It is always about how bad America is, because of a handful out of millions, but there are no photos of the beheaded American, French, etc. civilians on this page.

Comment by dehno — 2 October, 2006 #
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again… why are so you content with comparing America to the terrorists or third world countries????
Do you not want to be better than them?

Comment by junaman — 2 October, 2006 #
Apart from that, the point is that this has just been approved by the government…

Comment by junaman — 2 October, 2006 #
Dehno, those people is just a handful of the criminals. What about their superiors?. What about the highest superior, Bush, and Cheney behind the curtains?.

We will see the day that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and many others will be sitting in an international Court, perhaps in the Hague, and that day it will be a great day for the whole World, I’ll open a bottle of Champagne, and people like you will look for a hole to stay hidden and ashamed, because you will realize that your ignorance, Dehno, brought so much pain to the hearts of so many people… It’s a pity.

The day I was watching the Twin Towers falling, I was crying. Like many people outside the USA. But nowadays, after people like you, Dehno used that as a reason to destroy so many things, all we feel is RAGE, RAGE against people like you, not against America (the USA, better said), and SHAME, and PITY.

Dehno, stop looking around you, the faults and mistakes of others do not justify yours. Look inside you first.

Comment by Rochonf — 3 October, 2006 #
Dehno just said something perfectly reasonable, that these people are in jail for their actions; the US government obviously doesn’t condone such brutal behavior by its agents. And you’re expressing “RAGE, RAGE!” against him.

You’re losing perspective.

Comment by Wizzel Cogcarrier Wizzleton IV — 3 October, 2006 #
Please explain then, Wizzel Cogcarrier Wizzleton IV why the United States of America just passed a law allowing detaining of detainees without charge or a fair trial, and allowing the POTUS to define the term “outrages upon human dignity” and aything else he may not like in Article 3 of the Third Geneva Convention?

Comment by junaman — 3 October, 2006 #
According to the Red Cross, 90% of the people in Abu Ghraib were civilians who were picked up by the military for arbitrary reasons and were not given any kind of a trial.

These people were tortured.

US Government says, “Oh no. Wasn’t 90%. Really, it was more like 60%.”

Torture and “collateral damage” are not only acceptable to the US Government: it’s encouraged.

Watch this video for an interview with an Iraq veteran.

Comment by wetmetalthong — 3 October, 2006 #
I dislike the “you allowed this to happen” statement.
Not the entire country stood idly by and watched as this shit happened.
I hope you enjoy your meely mouthed selfrightiousness, I don’t.

Comment by filthyrotten — 3 October, 2006 #
There are a large number of Americans who are wize to what is happening. I see it on late night television, (The Daily Show, etc.) Comedians who are still not censored from telling the truth. Some feel the pressure (Jay Leno,etc.) But the popularity of the current administration is very low. Don’t judge all by the few. There is a lot of propaganda and much going on that we don’t know. The Internet is our salvation, if you can sort the crap from the truth. Hackers will probably save the world. Keep the Internet free. Keep talking. Keep blogging.

Comment by jeannie49 — 3 October, 2006 #
Dehno, Wizzel… you are blind. The real perspective, the real landscape is not Abu Ghraib. The real perspective is WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOUR SOLDIERS STEPPING THE SOVEREIGN FLOOR OF OTHER COUNTRIES?.

Do you think that keeping these criminals into jail is enough?. No. What about the General that allowed that?. What about the criminal Rumsfeld?. They walk by the streets with no problem, free: RAGE!, yes, that is what I feel. Shame!, that is what you should feel.

Wizzel… the real criminal is THE USA GOVERNMENT.

Your rulers are fucking your ass hole, with a smile, and you think that is democratic because they smile.

The best proof that corroborates that the USA government is just a fistful of criminals is that they do not sign the International Criminal Court agreement. That allows a criminal to be judjed in foreign countries, for instance in the country where the crime was done. For instance, Pinochet was detained here in Spain, and here started his judicial process. That is what makes my country big, democratic and free. But the USA menaces even with military action if a country tries to judge a USA criminal. That is one of the reasons that the World is laughing at your moral values, is laughing at you ridiculous criminal president, and is laughing at your democracy.

The worst of all is the big amount of people that really believes the lies of your government, the people that will vote for Bush again. I don’t mind what they do inside your home, but those people are a truely danger outside the USA. That is the part of the people of the USA that is supporting crimes. Not only in Abu Ghraib, nor Guantánamo, nor in Rumania nor Poland (where your CIA criminals and their mercenaries are –supposedly yet– torturing people in secret jails). The crimes are also in many African countries, in Afghanistan,…

And you say that I am losing perspective!… You are just a poor man, Wizzel.

And a real coward, you do not have the balls to face your own government.

Yes, I am clear, Wizzel, RAGE! against your government, and shame and pity on you.

Comment by Rochonf — 3 October, 2006 #
Filthyrotten, I can understand that you feel offended by my words. I DO know that many people is fighting with peaceful means to say “NO!” to your government. They fight (take risks) for the truth, they fight for real freedom, for respect, for human values. Perhaps we, outside USA, see that things easyly than yourself inside the USA, because the American media is scared, is frighten, is afraid of your government… is not FREE. But here we have more FREEDOM. Even having a pro-Bush clown expresident in our government few years ago. So, it’s of great value that people can say NO!, and express, act and speak by their own conclussions.

You, like me, are a human being. And as human beings we have our little pretty proud inside, Filthyrotten. But, I do not know why, many people is too much proud. The proud people do not like to listen at their faults. Nor allow criticism. When they make a mistake, they have to have the balls to face it, and low down the head with shame and humility. That makes a person big, real big, a human treasure.

Sometimes the mistake is so big, so so so a big CRIME, that even other rights are morally lost. An the critisism has to be accepted even with shame, standing by. With all my respect towards people working hard in the country, I can only see “redneck” minds everywhere.

Filthyrotten. Many people allows Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld sleep out of a jail, TODAY, just at this moment. That people, by omission, is allowing that those criminals make their crimes.

Filthyrotten… how I wish you could believe me. But your government has done many crimes, much more crimes than the one in Abu Ghraib. Do you know what happened to the univeristary personal in Irak?. No, you don’t. What happened to the doctors?. No, you don’t know. What happened to their ancient manuscripts, treasures?. You don’t know. What is worst: you do not want to know.

If you really knew what has being happening there, you could be crying your whole life.

Comment by Rochonf — 3 October, 2006 #
I am sorry that my English is not good, nor my speech. But fortunately other people is:

http://notsaussure.wordpress.com/2006/10/02/more-on-i-cant-believe-its-not-torture-us-rules-closer-to-stalins-than-ours/

Comment by Rochonf — 3 October, 2006 #
Thanks for all the replies Rochonf.
I linked to that in the article

Comment by junaman — 3 October, 2006 #
Ha… let’s compare those pictures to some video of Jihad-ist radicals cutting off the heads of soldiers and journalists with a hardly sharpened blade… You really gotta hack at that shit to cut it all the way off… Listen to their blood gurgling attempts at screams as the blade punctures their voicebox, throat, and spine. Now look at those same people with their faces covered laying on the ground… whoopdie fucking doo at least they still got a head on their shoulders. I voted for Bush and maybe the administration is lying about shit, but I’d do it again because at least he did SOMETHING after 9/11… I’d also do it again just to spite you fucks who think those pictures are the worst thing happening in the world right now… NEWSFLASH: it’s not even close. When I clicked the link to this site I was ready to see some gruesome bloody shit, but instead it’s a couple murderers laying on the ground half naked with their heads covered. They look like they’re having a much better time than the innocent business people jumping a hundred floors to their death because it’s faster than burning alive from ignited plane fuel in the twin towers.

Open your eyes to ALL the pictures, then post. kkthanks bye.

Comment by pooshank — 3 October, 2006 #
Once again, I love how you compare America to Developing nations and terrorists…

I have said this above statement many times, and received no reply… perhaps you would like to respond?

One more thing, 9/11 was quite possibly done by your own government…

Comment by junaman — 3 October, 2006 #
junaman is right … and the last 2 american elections were stolen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_presidential_election_controversy_and_irregularities/summary

You may dismiss the 9/11 and presidential election stories as far-fetched conspiracy theories. But just for a second just think “what if” these stories have even some element of truth in them. For me personally there is something going on.

Anyway, there is this one other thing that I wanted to mention. I was visiting the US during the 2004 election. The race appeared to be close as per the opinion polls. Then the news broke of the Al Qa’qaa scandal.

I thought this is it – the defining moment of the election, and Bush was a goner.

Right then, an Osama tape was released. It was all over the media.

The Al Qa’qaa story sank without a trace. No one ever heard of it again.

I’m sure all the ‘IED’s going off on a daily basis in Iraq have their origins in Al Qa’qaa.

Comment by superdude — 4 October, 2006 #
junaman, you say you want to be better than “them”, well theres your problem, you, and we are better than nobody, and will never be better than anyone else, thinking that is what makes you think its ok to blow them apart with cluster bobms, ans shock their nuts with car batteries, your train of thinking “IS THE PROBLEM”

Comment by poopydiaperbaby — 4 October, 2006 #
Pooshank, I am constantly amazed at how many people miss the point when people complain about the American governments crimes. You seem to be suggesting in your reply that because somebody (and lets be honest, we’re not even sure who) destroyed the twin towers and murdered all those people then the U.S. government is entitled to ignore human rights issues, the UN and countless other precautions that were put into place after WWII to prevent unecessary bloodshed.
Has your mother never told you that two wrongs don’t make a right.
Your opinion seems based on bitterness and arrogance rather than an acceptance of the facts: that the U.S.A is probably more hated now than Al-Queda and this is down to the U.S government behaving like bloodthirsty conquistadors.

Comment by Watto — 4 October, 2006 #
And do you really think the terrorist are treating any of their hostage anymore humanely? Atleast our prisioners get food and water. And to be prefectly honest, it’s war…who made rules in WAR!!!!

Comment by Bob — 4 October, 2006 #
This is so horrible, the worst thing that has ever happened to anyone ever, we treat these prisoners like fucking angles compared to how Saddam treated his prisoners and whatnot, Whens the last time we covered a prisoner in cuts with a razor then dipped him in raw sewage to ensure infection? Im not exactly sure…. Sure this is bad, but people treat this and look at it like the United States is at fault for all the fucked up shit, when in reality, we are all to blame ourselves, including the average people in the middle east, they are just as guilty as we are. Its the world’s fault, not the united states.

Comment by Excabus — 4 October, 2006 #
Bob, Pooshank, you are a danger for the World. Pay attention how ridiculous you are:

First of all, your own people, your damned agents, recognized that Irak (Saddam) had no relation with the 9/11. Don’t you read the news?, or perhaps you can’t read?. This allows me to say that you are just shit. Even me being quite, you are just shit.

Secondly, as I said somewhere, get the Operation Northwoods pdf documents that you can find in the internet. After reading them, you will learn that your government are a fistful of criminals, PROVOKING WARS AROUND TEH GLOBE. I DO believe that 9/11 is an inside job, at least partially, somebody helpend from inside. That allows me to say that you, boyh, are just shit.

Third, those people in the floor are people defending their land, their floor, their houses, their country like bastards like you invaded. As you did, when the Japanese gave you a lesson at your home, you defended your own home (with unproportioned strength). Indeed, the USA is the ONLY country in the world that used nuclear bastard weapons in a war. All this allows me to say that you are just shit.

Fourth point, you can read in the news, everywhere, that the world is in RAGE against you, because you invaded (without real reason) and killed people that was in their own country. EVERYTHING you touch, every one of the things you touch out of your borders, BECOMES A MESS OF SHIT like you are. Today, there are hundred thousands people ready to die with proud because people like YOU are CRIMINALS. Please, stay inside, don’t go out your borders, if you want to kill someone, kill your own mother, sister, daughter, son, do it in your own home. But please, do not generate, do not be the cause of the INCREASING terrorist risk all over the World, because NO MATTER the country, when you ask for what do we think about people like you, the answer will be: stop making more terrorists, you are a terrorist factory, big piece of SHIT!.

Someday your own children will point at you with their fingers and will ask you: did you really do that?. Did you violated the sovereign land of other countries?. Did you really did all those things people say everywhere?.

What is better: the World is awakening, and some day, your “heroes” will go to jail, they will not be able to step a foreign country. You are going to see it with your own eyes.

As you can see, Abu Ghraib is just a little spot in your history. Go further, open your eyes enough, and you will see the whole hell around you.

Comment by Rochonf — 4 October, 2006 #
Bob, Pooshank, I forgot to say that if I catch you, in my land, in my house, torturing, killing, violating, destroying my country… I’ll do exactly the same that those “terrorists” you see in the videos. So perhaps you could call me terrorist also?. Now, go and ask anybody, ask anybody what would they do in the same case, perhaps there are near 4 thousand million terrorists waiting for you out there, with the exception of England and Israel. Ask them, ask them, when you want. By now, go to a school and fire the children, people like you are famous for that also, all around the World.

Comment by Rochonf — 4 October, 2006 #
Don’t be so PC people. These pricks probably deserved what they got!

Comment by England Tom — 4 October, 2006 #
Rochonf, I regret to inform you this, but you’re a stupid fuck. You’re just making yourself look all the more unwise with your rash American-hating. So you don’t like America? fuck off. America doesn’t like you. You think you know all the facts because you researched it on the internet. There is alot of false information on the web. No one’s sure who did 9/11. 9/11 has nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq. America invaded Iraq to throw a corrupt dictator out of power becuase he was a threat to our nation and all nations. thats all. thanks bye

Comment by Blez — 4 October, 2006 #
“Don’t be so PC people. These pricks probably deserved what they got!”

hey england tom dont be such an idiot making stupid comments like that, america and other allied countries shouldent even be in iraq! and that includes ours (britain). you should be ashamed of yourself making stupid comments like that. the iraq invasion and occupation are illigal acts, the evidence of that is overwhelming. 9/11 was definatly a self inflicted wound to justify the invasion of another country for oil, juicy contracts and the sale of arms and other bullshit. why do you think they bombed the hell out of iraq so much before invading? so other cunts could make a huge profit off arms sales and rebuilding contracts. out of all the rebuilding contracts given out only about 12% or perhaps even less went out to iraqi building, electrical, etc, companys. alot of people that were in abu graib and other prisons were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. these people have no rights whatsoever, do you truly understand the enormity of that for a totally inocent person.
put your brain in gear before coming out with stupid statements like that.

Comment by sijay44 — 4 October, 2006 #
“9/11 has nothing to do with the invasion of Iraq”

hey blez wtf are you talking about? 9/11 was the pretext for invading iraq. saddam hussain was never a threat to america…never. and saying he was a threat to america and all nations is complete bullshit. no wmd were ever found in iraq, that was just another propoganda lie by bush and his cockfaced cronies to justify what they did. and anyway what the fuck does it have to do with america or any other country for that matter what saddam hussain was doing in his own country. its for the people of iraq to overthrow their second rate dictator not america or britain or any other country for that matter. and given enough time they would have done that.
there is ten times more death and violence and torture in iraq since it was invaded and occupied by america and its allies.
tell me this though blez if america went into iraq to throw out a corrupt dictator then whos going to invade your country to throw out your corrupt dictator(bush) who most definatly is a threat to other nations of the world?

Comment by sijay44 — 4 October, 2006 #
i just wanted to add : blez your a fucking total retard….dickhead

Comment by sijay44 — 4 October, 2006 #
i just wanted to add: blez your a fucking dickhead, stay of the net for fucks sake.

Comment by sijay44 — 4 October, 2006 #
Are you a Democrat? Good luck on the upcoming elections you sill slob. Save up for that sex change.

Comment by Mic — 4 October, 2006 #
How is that relevant? What do sex changes have anything to do with that? And why would you bother commenting on this blog?

By that I can only assume you mean that Republicans obviously support inhumane treatment of people…

Comment by junaman — 4 October, 2006 #
Rochonf, it’s far left scum bags like you that degrade our great country. I wish you would all just pack up your shit, unfounded claims, and radical ideals, and take them somwhere else where you won’t plague the rest of us who love our country inspite of a few mistakes that our goverment has made. Failing that, at least keep your border-line treasonous filth off the Internet.

Comment by LiquidMetal — 4 October, 2006 #
Too bad he’s not from America isn’t it… But you sure do love to assume…

The internet is the only place we have left to reveal this “treason”…
Calling it treason is why your country is heading the path of totalitarianism.

Comment by junaman — 4 October, 2006 #
ah shit my mistake, i meant to say that what we’re told is that we invaded iraq becuase of wmd/threat to our security. and who believes it? no one. we all know its all about oil.
and get this… i dont give a shit that we’ve invaded a country, becuase my gastank fills up with only 20$ instead of 40$

hahaha wow sijay44 something must have crawled up your ass. i found your flaming quite refreshing in a juvinale sort of way. Maybe when you grow up you can use the majority of your brain and come up with a decent way to insult me.

Comment by Blez — 4 October, 2006 #
You people rant and rave as if you live on another planet. I saw what happened to the twin towers.I am not American. I cried for days every time it was repeated on TV.I cried for an all time low in Human history of a cowardly attack on good working people contributing in a meaningful way to a far far better way of life than you enjoy I am sure . Just what did you think George Bush could do; he had (he must have had )information not privy to all inspite of the know it all’s( like you ) who come out now claiming no weapons of mass destruction and fancy treating terrorists like this? Well I still think there were,weapons why else did they stall the inspectors for so long. In anycase it doesn’t matter, does it.
Americans are only human, so pull your head in or they might knock it off.You who couldn’t even lead your own family to a better way of life let alone a country.Which is probably why you are jumping up and down and ranting now. I am appalled at the American soldiers having to fight against terrorists who hide behind children and get shot until they have to shoot back regardless and then get blamed.I am appalled but that is what human beings have to do fight the enemy that threatens them. Catch them and then use whatever it takes to get the truth out of them in order to prevent repeated attacks.What do you think they must do say “pretty please be nice little terrorists and tell us what and when your friends intend to strike another sneaking and cowardly blow against us and our people.We believe in human rights so you can use our laws to get off and we will provide you with a cunning lawyer( who is only in it for the money to use our laws to get you off) so you terrorist can go back and help kill more of our soldiers .Oh yeah! choose to become a terrorist you take the consequences.Terrorists
give up their human rights when they decide to sneakily and cunningly murder innocent people who have no chance to defend themselves. Thats the difference between terrorismn and war.In war You know who your enemy is you at least are given a fighting chance. What chance did they give those in the twin towers?In the Bali bombings et al.Defend their human rights don’t make me laugh!
They are lucky America didn’t nuke the whole Middle East.And I mean real lucky.
Having said all that it would have been wiser to leave it to Interpol to track the terrorists down perhaps.I have to admit the agenda of oil must have had a part inthe decision.But again that’s human nature and; well don’t bug it ….or you may get more than you bargained for.It’s a complex issue.In anycase I am sure Interpol are very much involved as well which is a comforting thought.

Comment by bluewren — 4 October, 2006 #
P.S.”there is ten times more death and violence and torture in iraq since it was invaded and occupied by america and its allies.”quote fromsijay44 on October 4th, 2006
This is quite true. There are three factions of Iraqies fighting for power and they are killing each other. Not the Americans.What the Americans have to try to do now is prevent a full scale civil war. It is worth noting that this is probably what Sadam had to deal with and why he was such a harsh dictator. He had to be. look what he was dealing with. It is also why he shows not one ounce of guilt or remorse at his trial. I suppose.

Comment by bluewren — 4 October, 2006 #
Oh yes, just conveniently ignore the 100 000+ civilians that the Americans have killed.
And regarding your previous post: No human, ever, loses their human rights

The key word that I unfortunately have to add into that sentence is “should”

Comment by junaman — 4 October, 2006 #
Totalitarianism? How in the name of hell can you prove that America is on it’s way to totalitarianism? Here’s what I want you to do pal. I want you to poll the citizens of this country and ask them if they think that America is on the verge of falling into totalitarianism. I garentee you will find that most Americans do NOT feel that way at all. Then, if you are intelligent, you will come to the realization that drinking all of that extremist coolaide is creating serious problems for you, and for your judgement. So soon we forget that there truly do exist countries were freedom simply does not exist. If you honestly think that America is on the verge of becoming another China, or Cambodia under Pol Pot (real instances of opression and dictatorship), then your thinking is fatally flawed, and your opinions should hold no weight.

Comment by LiquidMetal — 4 October, 2006 #
“I garentee you will find that most Americans do NOT feel that way at all.”

Oh, but that is exactly the problem…
Of course nobody suspects a country is going to head down the pat of oppression, otherwise the people would rise up and foil the plans. No totalitarian state has ever been formed when people suspect that it will become totalitarian…

Comment by junaman — 4 October, 2006 #
“No totalitarian state has ever been formed when people suspect that it will become totalitarian…”

Oh, but you are so wrong. If you research the formation of totalitarian states throughout history, you will find that on many occasions, the people could see it coming, but sadly could do nothing about it. Totalitarian dictators do not gain power through consent of the people, but instead sieze power through force. This has been happening all throughout history. How do you propose that the people of Cambodia or China resist a totalitarian government that is backed by a huge military force and led by genecidal sociopath? Do you really think those people had the means to resist?
Also, to believe that in the process of forming these totalitarian systems, that the people had no clue what was happening is absolutely ridiculous. Of course there were indications. Furthermore, I promise you that these indications were far more gross and horrific than a few mistakes made by our military, which by the way has little bearing on the integrity of our government, seeing as those individuals were duely punished for their actions. Consider these points before you attempt to say that America is headed for something like totalitariansm.

Comment by LiquidMetal — 4 October, 2006 #
What they did the world knows very well, noone can excuse that it is the action of few peoples they are representing so called civilised army and civilised nation.It is the time to think whether we keep quite and watch this bloody things or come out to agitate peacefully to let them know that this is not the right way to handle terrorism. In which they are tackling terrorism, Infact they are spreading terrorism to other places also. Today, due to such nonsence behavior whole the world is suffering. I wana ask one question due to their invasion to other countries, how much they would be able to safe the world.

Comment by mechtech — 4 October, 2006 #
“huge military force”

The military is generally made up of people… Hence they needed the support of the people to get into power…
Hitler for example was elected democratically… The people did not know however, that he was going to invade Poland.

Comment by junaman — 4 October, 2006 #
Englad Tom, are you talking about the 9/11 victims?. I don’t find any difference between the 9/11 and Irak victims.

Blez, first of all, I love Venezuela, I love Chile, Brasil, Honduras, Argentina… as you can see, I do love America. About the USA, I don’t hate the USA. Because many people is not like you. I hate the people like you from time to time, but mainly I feel pity and shame when I think of people like you. When you are alone, you secretly ask yourself “are we doing well?”, and that is enough for me, because one day you will get the truth. People like you is of great value for mankind: when you have the right human values (not killing, not invading, not being that proud, not stealing the natural resources of others, …), then, you will be one of the most beautiful people in the Earth, because you put all their heart in your believings. Unfortunately someone brainwashed you, and you have to wake up in the Matrix they put you into.

Step by step, you will have the chance to talk with other people in other countries. All arround the globe, thanks to the internet. Or please, travel to other countries. That way, you will realize how blind they keep you.

But if the USA is represented by people such as you, then I will say: yes, fuck the USA.

Blez, that bastard criminal you have as a president, that dumbass said that you had to invade Irak because Saddam was one of the authors of 9/11 crime. What were you doing that day?, didn’t you listen to your news?. Yo have no right answer. Besides, Saddam was a threat to the USA?. How?. Why?. Launching stones against the white house or spiting you?… those poor ignorant people of Irak that had no shoes, no bread?. And who are you to say they are a threat for the other countries?, which countries?, tell me who said he was a threat?, the UK?, Israel?… Blez, poor criminal kiddo.

Mic, are you unemployed yet?.

LiquidMetal, “a few mistakes that your goverment has made”… Great, at least you accept that your country did “few” and tiny mistakes. LiquidMetal, you are afraid, you do not want your compatriots know the truth. They have to know the truth, my dear fascist, they have to KNOW, and then they have to CHOOSE. But by now they are prisoners, they are prisoners and are afraid of Cheney and Bush, they are afraid of being kidnapped by your own agents, they are afraid of loosing their jobs, they are afraid of loosing their Social Security rights if they say NO to Cheney (criminal) and Bush (criminal). Your own people is not free to speak. I feel pity. A great country and so many slaves living inside!. They have to know because they deserve the right to choose. Once they know, their election will be sovereign. But you cannot choose, because you keep yourself in ignorance, closing your eyes, bastard.

Just a suggestion. Instead of getting into a hidden hole, face me, LiquidMetal, rise a weblog and just ask the World: “I think my government only did few mistakes, what do you think of it?”. Your weblog will grow like crazy, with thousand insults for you day after day. And then check their IPs, you will see that the WHOLE WORLD IS WRONG, only you are right. You for President, my criminal friend.

Bluewren, I was going to answer you but… I only feel pity, I only feel PITY for you, that is what you inspire inside me. I also want to cry, because is so unfair that God brought people with such a mind to Earth.

LiquidMetal said: “Also, to believe that in the process of forming these totalitarian systems, that the people had no clue what was happening is absolutely ridiculous. Of course there were indications. Furthermore, I promise you that these indications were far more gross and horrific than a few mistakes made by our military, which by the way has little bearing on the integrity of our government, seeing as those individuals were duely punished for their actions. Consider these points before you attempt to say that America is headed for something like totalitariansm”. Full totalitarism will not arrive to the USA, your compatriots will kill you and people like you before that happen, LiquidMetal, they are not that silly. You are a fake, you try to seem a cultivated person, but you are just talking like a politician. The problem is not your “few military mistakes”. There is something black, sinister, cold and criminal running through your streets, your email, your newspapers… You are being watched, American, by patriot criminals sleeping near you. They do not want you to know. I will open a new page in my blog in some days. I will dedicate it to LiquidMetal, it will be a monographic on little few mistakes, not made by the military, but by the USA government. Tiny things.

And I see many of you use the word “terrorism”, and “terrorists”. Please, tell me the definition of that. What did your teachers tought you in school?. Why do you use those words for everything?. Let us see your skills.

- Someone defending their daughters so the USA soldiers don’t violate them are terrorists.
- Those who doubt about the 9/11 affair are terrorists.
- Someone captured in their OWN country by invaders are terrorists.
- Someone avenging against a USA cityzen for his crime is a terrorist.
- Someone asking his politicians for explanations is a terrorist or is gonna become a terrorist.
- Someone talking, thinking by itself, not agreeing with the USA methods are terrorists.
- Someone saying: Cheney, son of the bitch, criminal, bastard, I hope you die soo is a terrorist.
- Someone that defends his home from alien bastard invaders is a terrorist.
- Someone that is Muslim is a terrorist.
- Someone that YOU BASTARDS call sand-negro is a terrorist.
- The day that the black race countries don’t allow you to steal their cupper, diamonds, petrol, gas, nickel, gold,… the day that they don’t sell their mining rights, they will become terrorists.
- A Brazilian cought in the Metro with a suspitious bag is a terrorist till he is shot and dead.
- Someone with a long beard is a terrorist.
- Someone throwing tomatos to Bush is a terrorist.
- Someone pointed by the finger of Bush (of course having God as a Muse) is a terrorist.

Please, help me completing the list.

Comment by Rochonf — 4 October, 2006 #
Rochonf Im starting my own list…..

Its a list of people who have the right ideas but put them across poorly. It also contains people who I think spend too much time on stuff like internet blogs….Basically this is really a list of loosers, that are good thinkers.

Heres the list…
Rochonf

Thats all ive got!
Please, help me completing the list.

Comment by shrinkley — 4 October, 2006 #
I would like to apologise to you Rochonf….
That wasnt fair or intelligent nor based on anything other than my personal opions, Im sure youre a great guy!

Comment by shrinkley — 4 October, 2006 #
Rochonf on October 4th, 2006
I do not think you are a great guy at all.You cannot see past your feelings of your rightuous indignation and quite unjustified feelings of your superior intelligence your “morality” and the joy you have that God brought such a usless bleater as yourself into the world.
What exactly did you do today to make the life of someone else in your family better, did you go out of your way to make them happier do something to help your wife ( if you have one?) pay for your childrens outings & education? Take time to praise them and care what was happening in their lives? Were you as caring for them and the people around you as you profess to be for the masses.Or do you make their lives a misery by ranting about the terrible things going on in the world.Showing what a clever little munchkin you are and boring them senseless. Before you try changing others and the world mate change your own little corner of it first.That will be a big enough job for you I’m thinking.

Comment by Pat — 5 October, 2006 #
Pat, that is the best advice I’ve seen on this site. Rochonf, listen up. You are a sad bastard who attacks everyone around you. You are a waste to humankind. A wanger and a fat, dirty bastard. What do you know about world politics? You can’t even keep up with your own personal life right down to personal hygene.

Comment by Mic — 5 October, 2006 #
I think the basic fact of the matter is that the U.S. government is torturing and murdering innocent people – this is undeniable – the question is whether you think it is justifiable.

There are some people out there, quite a lot judging by the reactions on this thread, that believe in revenge.
There are others, sadly in the minority, that believe in breaking the cycle of violence.
I think the latter will lose, sadly.

Oh, yes. The world’s fucked.

Comment by Watto — 5 October, 2006 #
I think the basic fact of the matter is that the U.S. government is torturing and murdering innocent people – this is undeniable – the question is whether you think it is justifiable.

There are some people out there, quite a lot judging by the reactions on this thread, that believe in revenge.
There are others, sadly in the minority, that believe in breaking the cycle of violence.
I think the latter will lose, sadly.

The world’s fucked.

Oh, and one last thing. When my country, Great Britain, was being regularly bombed by the IRA, where were they getting the majority of their funding from. Oh yeah, it was the USA wasn’t it.
So before you start getting all sanctimonious about terrorists, remember what’s happened in the past.

Comment by Watto — 5 October, 2006 #
just because a soldier takes pictures with beat up prisoners doesn’t make america bad. i’m sure iraq and afghanistan soldiers have many pictures of USA soldiers being mistreated. you can’t judge a country by the actions of one of its soldiers and likewise you shouldn’t be able to condem the country either. you have to understand that the US soldiers are out there risking their lives, being shot at by other people, and they are doing this to protect our country. If the only joy they get in life besides having bullets wiz by them at night, and being woken up intermidently while sleeping is taking pictures with their prisoners whom they worked hard to capture, you can’t blame them. To criticize them without having actually experienced the hardships of war isn’t right. and to judge a country based on a few pictures of soldiers finding contentment in their latest accomplishments is wrong. yes our country isn’t always honest with us, but don’t hate on the soldiers that are out there protecting our country.

Comment by sean — 5 October, 2006 #
I’ve seen Islamo fascists photos of Americans getting their heads cut off. I’ve seen the Twin Towers fall and people jump to their deaths. And I’ve seen women treated worse than goats in Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq. I’m happy we have a strong military and George Bush as president who is moral enough to do something about it. You are a coward and a hate monger. Go get high.

Comment by Mic — 5 October, 2006 #
I haven’t once made any derogatory remarks about the US armed forces or it’s people, only about the US government.
Please learn to read before you post comments.
If you’d bothered reading my post AND thinking about it instead of coming out with an extremely defensive answer you’d have realised that I have not passed judgement on anybody. I have simply stated what most people believe to be true – that the US government is sanctioning torture and murder.
If you don’t belive this then fair enough, but please bother to understand what you are replying to before you make steam come out of your ears.

It is partly due to people behaving like yourself, by assuming that any one with a different point of view is intending you harm, that the USA has become a hate figure in many countries in the world.

I am constantly defending the American people in conversation with my freinds as they cannot differentiate between a government and citizens. You must understand that like my freinds you have a problem differentiating between a criticism and an all out attack on your beliefs and values.

I know it is a very emotional subject but if people cannot learn to behave in an adult and responsible manner when all they are doing is talking then we might as well all give up now and slit our own throats aqnd save the war mongers the effort.

I also take exception at being labled a hate-monger, please state where in any of my posts have I encouraged people to hate any other group or race as I have just re-read them and can’t see what you’re talking about.

Also, I to, am happy that the USA has a strong military as it acts as an excellent detterent. However nobody has posted anything to the contrary so why babble on about it?

Comment by Watto — 5 October, 2006 #
Who cares? We will all be dead one day, and we will all be equal then. Get the fuck over it you bunch of douchebags.

Comment by barf — 5 October, 2006 #
Now, I’m not sure about the rest of the Americans who have been posting in here, but personally, I have a serious problem with people who are NOT American spreading their unfounded and baseless views about my country. I do not take seriously anyone who is not American, and obviously does not know the issues, making statements such as these,
“There is something black, sinister, cold and criminal running through your streets, your email, your newspapers… You are being watched, American, by patriot criminals sleeping near you”.
Claims like these only make you appear idiodic, and are not taken seriously by anyone in their right mind.
If you really beleive that you know more about the issues and the status of my country than me or any other Amiercan in here, then you are clearly just posting to get attention, but your arguements are not coherent, and will not be taken seriously by any rational American.
To people like Rochonf, I would advise that you focus on the state of your own country, although if it be people who think like you who are running it, then I pity that country.
Finally, I do not hesitate to make the claim that I live in the greatest country in the world, even for all of its mistakes. How else can you explain why tens of thousands of people come into the US each year illegally to try and attain a better existence? You will find that no other country has problem to the extent that we do. But there is a reason for the fact that these people immigrate to the US. They seek justice, freedom, and opportunity that they (obviously) could not find in their own countries, or any other country in the world. So until you can give me a COHERENT reason why I should not be proud to be American despite its faults, then I, and hopefully all other rational Americans, will not heed your opinions.

Comment by LiquidMetal — 5 October, 2006 #
Shrinkley, don’t correct your words. I know my manners are not the right one, but they don’t deserve other manners. I am sure that you and all of theses bastards sons of the bitch are great persons, but they have the wrong education and wrong values. You are blind, but you will open your eyes (that’s life), and you will remember this conversations and someone, not me, will get hidden into holes like rats. Here I am, you will find me along the time.

My family is right, everything is fine between me and my family. At all, I am just a human, not touched by the hand of God, like you. Don’t give me advices, and save energy, you are going to need it to re-educate your sons, you really have a big social problem in the USA.

I am a looser, I can not fight alone with a strengh that surpasses me, but the strength does not grants the reason, nor the success for ever.

People like this bastards feed the hate of real Muslim criminals, one day they will join together and you will pay for your mistakes if you don’t fix what you broke, I really am scared of that day. Muslim is not the same than criminal, but some Muslims are criminals. The same way, American citizen is not the same than fucking bastard son of the great bitch, but in the USA some citizens are just that.

I don’t need your advice, hahaaaa. Keep your advices (or rise Abu Ghraib & Family Consulting Inc, you will succeed) for your sons, they will need it.

If only one person realises of what sort of people you are, perhaps not here, perhaps not now, but one day he/she will fight, without blood, against your fake and wrong values, with words and ideas.

With compatriots like you, I would be really depressed in the USA. It’s a pity how many people is suffering your poison, even under the same flag. Bars and stars… How far you are from the people that raised the USA. Shame on you!.

Go on collecting enemies, day by day.

Comment by Rochonf — 5 October, 2006 #
LiquidMetal said: “To people like Rochonf, I would advise that you focus on the state of your own country, although if it be people who think like you who are running it, then I pity that country”.

That proves you are just a silly teenager with your face full of pimples and spots. I have been loosing my time.

You bastard, focus your torture methods on your own country, violate your own mother in your country, steel your own petrol, kill your own criminals.

You bastard, your country in the hands of criminals like you, bastard, is threat to every country in this world. So now everybody has the right to speak about your country.

Bastard. I wish you could be sent to war.

Comment by Rochonf — 5 October, 2006 #
I’m sorry but I’ve just realised the pitiful absurdity that in the 21st century I am having a discussion with people whether torture and murder are right or wrong!
Oh and by the way LiquidMetal, I think if you bothered to check your facts before you write you would find that the British Isles has a far bigger problem with illegal immigrants than the USA proportional to its size.
And maybe one of the reasons people are flooding into your country is because our governments are constantly starting wars that both create an endless stream of refugees and economic situations in immigrants homelands that force them to seek a new life elswhere.
Get over yourselves. The USA is a great and proud country but it is not that great.
Justice? O.J. Simpson – a murderer walking free. George W Bush – A president that didn’t even win his first election.
Freedom? The right to be held without trial by peers.
Opportunity? The opportunity to screw up most of South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea and now the Middle East.
Yeah! Well done America. You really are the greatest world leader that has ever existed. Such wise leadership.

Comment by Watto — 5 October, 2006 #
“You bastard, focus your torture methods on your own country, violate your own mother in your country, steel your own petrol, kill your own criminals”.
Aside from that fact that you are posting in a forum about America, yet can barely construct a sentence that makes any kind of sense, you are indeed full of shit. America captures and sometimes kills international criminals (terrorists) because they are a threat to the WORLD. Terrorists will kill anyone for any reason that they are able to justify with their horrifically mangled sense of duty and religion. They not only can kill non-Americans, but do all of the time. I wager that your views would change if one of your relatives was killed by an exploding bus. And by the way, I would glady fight in Iraq (whether the war is right or wrong) because I have a duty as a citizen of my country to do so. I’m convinced that you would cower in the wake of duty should your country ever need you. What a shame.

“Freedom? The right to be held without trial by peers.
Opportunity? The opportunity to screw up most of South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea and now the Middle East”.
Watto, again, your are missing the big picture. I did not say that America is without faults. But compared to the MAJORITY of the world, our country provides justice, freedom, and oppotunity that cannot be found elsewhere. If it could, then all of those thousands of illegals would migrate there, wouldn’t they? Do you see what happens when even a tiny bit of logic is applyed to an argument? It makes so much more sense.

Comment by LiquidMetal — 5 October, 2006 #
Ronconf–You socialist loser. Are you blogging from a prison in a third world nation? You are not an American, that’s clear. What nation are you a citizen of? Maybe Hugo would hire you to shovel the crap in the cells of his prison cells.

Comment by Mic — 5 October, 2006 #
@poopydiaperbaby

I am saying that they should not act like the terrorists they are trying to defeat…

“just because a soldier takes pictures with beat up prisoners doesn’t make america bad. i’m sure iraq and afghanistan soldiers have many pictures of USA soldiers being mistreated.”

Making both Iraq, Afghanistan and America bad…
Why do you compare American soldiers with terrorists, while claiming to still support them.

Comment by junaman — 5 October, 2006 #
The most efficient way to bring the world to peace is to learn peace within the self, for as you think, as you are, so your universe is also, for your consciousness is as a field and each bit of fear that you are able to let drop, each time that you find your heart expanding, the consciousness of your planet is being lightened. There is no lag time between the open heart of self and service to the planet, that lightening of the consciousness of planet Earth. You came among these entities of flesh and bone. You took that flesh upon yourself and buried yourself in a world of shadows because you wished to make a difference. You heard the sorrow of those who dwell with you now. And you wished to stand among them as a witness and as one who was a channel for love. This is your great chance. These are the days you hoped and prepared for, and now the time is upon you, and how quickly, my friends, it is going. Is it not?”

Comment by jeannie49 — 5 October, 2006 #
Hey Watto, after reading your last message…what a surprise!!, we think the same but we fight against ourselves!. I really thought you you were a blind bastard, but, not, I was wrong. I am sorry. There are some little things that you don’t understand yet, but, perhaps are minor details. And unfortunately I am glad that you realize there is no way talking with bastards like them. You won’t get a reasonable idea.

LiquidMetal great sentences:
“you are posting in a forum about America“. DO you mean the subject we are talking about represents America?. No. Nor America (Venezuela, Mexico, Honduras, Brazil, …) nor the United States of America, bastard. I can not believe that torture subjects represnt the whole USA. Don’t offend your own compatriots, bastard.

“they are a threat to the WORLD. Oh… I should like to share many cultural subjects, beers and more with many people that your bastard Bush calls “terrorists”: anyone with different ideas. And, oh, yes, God came to your bed and told you that you are the Masters of Universe so you have ther right to fix the World to suit your dirty needs, bastard.

The whole world is saying: PLEASE, TERRORISTS, SAVE OUR LIVES FROM BUSH AKA THE HEALER. Amen.

“if one of your relatives was killed by an exploding bus. Hey, you have experience with that, it seems that your government agents did it before with your own people, bastards!.

“I would glady fight in Iraq”. This is the point where I see you are just a teenager. You’d better go to explode pimples in your mirror, baby. You don’t know what you are talking about. But the guilty people are really your parents and teachers, they did a sad job.

No, not a coward. War is a horrible thing. Listen to your veterans, if they are able to speak and have clear mind between pill and pill. And to those that lost your family in that illegal war, what?… are you proud?,… are you happy they are dead?… now sing your song, America, America… You killed your family, you left the hole of your ass in the hands of war criminal, and they will pay in an International Court. I will always avoid any war but if we get any sort of dumb bastard invaders like you in my country, I will have some like you for breakfast, bastard. I would fight against fascists, bastard, while most of you are SCARED OF YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT, cowards!!!.

Hey, you, Americans, listen to your compatriot, here comes the best, here comes the place where he tries to brainwash you, it’s very funny and ridiculous (perhaps he had an orgasm over the flag while writting that):

“our country provides justice, freedom, and oppotunity that cannot be found elsewhere. If it could, then all of those thousands of illegals would migrate there, wouldn’t they? Do you see what happens when even a tiny bit of logic is applyed to an argument? It makes so much more sense.

HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA… What are you, a priest?, a CIA brainwasher?, are you Bush playing computers?, perhaps Cheney in his free time?, come get some, bastard.

Comment by Rochonf — 5 October, 2006 #
mate Ronchof I must stress that I did not mean that comment!

But….im not American, I live in australia which is certainly not american! Dont bunch me in with all of these morons from America who are commenting here. I am well educated in politics, my kids will be and im with you in any fight against these morons from the U.S.A who are fukking with the world.

Soz

Comment by shrinkley — 5 October, 2006 #
You Americans on here are sickening!

You just simply cannot condone the use of torture within your country or anyone elses! It is torture for heavens sake! Torture! Torture! Do you all understand that? What you are saying these “bastards” deserve is to be humiliated, hurt and maybe even put on the verge of death!

Even if you have NO MORALS and dont care then surely you can see that bush’ new laws could allow some terrible things to happen to your countries dignity! If he manages to get a law to allow the CIA or whoever to deatain people without charges or trials and then to torture them then you WILL end up with people confessing to stuff they havent done! The president could deatain anyone and then have them trialed for NOTHING!

The lot of you Americans are absolutely killing the rest of the world! The way you can allow such stuff to happen within your own country is utterly helarious! Everyone in the rest of the world is laughing at you….
Youve become an obese disgusting and ammoral bunch of pathetic people. It is childish but i barrack for the “terrorists” that your president is getting you all scared about!

Comment by shrinkley — 5 October, 2006 #
Mic, you are a looser journalist. You are a poor man. You only make me feel pity. I am Spaniard. From Spain: the one that didn’t want to be your CRIMINAL accomplice in an illegal and criminal war. We had the balls to say: BUSH, fuck you!. That was also addressed to many fools like you. Hey, some centuries ago we also were bastards like you!, but you, newbies, don’t want to listen to our experience. Today you are high, tomorrow you are down, it’s life. Nothing lasts for ever, and you are rising many enemies. Your country don’t deserve that, I hope that people with a mind like yours loose influence.

Comment by Rochonf — 5 October, 2006 #
Rochonf,

You are a bitter man. I’m not as poor as you think, because I’ve quit the journalisim game and now work in IT. I drive a Hummer H3 live in a nice home on a 1/4 acre, also own a Jeep and Land Rover. I have a smart, pretty wife and two great daughters. I want to help keep America from falling into the ignorant hands of socialist thugs like your country has. It’s all about freedom and the future for me. Bush is right to be killing the Islamo Fascisits in their own wastelands. Otherwise they would be spending their numbnuts over our border with Mexico. Hey, maybe you are training some Muslims how to speak Spanish? Share with us. Be honest. Wouldn’t you like to see the U.S. crushed?

Comment by Mic — 6 October, 2006 #
good lord, if any intelligent american knows anything about what is happening in their country, they would know that the U.S. IS on it’s way to totalitarianism. How many constitutional rights have been shattered by Bush’s administration so far? How many international laws have been broken? Detainee act, the torture bill, Patriot Act I and II, warrantless wiretaps, police not needing warrants, FBI sneaking into people’s homes and snooping, leaving without the homeowner’s knowledge, election fraud on a HUGE scale, right down to electronic voting machines that leave no paper trail, and can have software embedded that flips a vote to a predetermined candidate without leaving a trace, national id cards, with RFID chips for the sole purpose of tracking people, since RFID has been proven to be far less secure and no more comprehensive than a non-transmitting barcode, the ability to label any person, including american citizens as suspected terrorists, for vague reasons such as “threat to the nation’s security”, which has such a broad definition that it could mean anyone who protests against the government, then be detained in hundreds of internment camps that have been built across the US in the last few years, (for what purpose? it seems the reasons are all coming together now), and the list goes on and on…
All of these things I mention are true and can be easily researched, not only in “conspiracy” websites, but in mainstream news media. They are all true.

Please, for our own sakes, WAKE THE FUCK UP! It’s not bad yet, because we haven’t had to see all these things in action yet, but the laws have already been passed, or have already been put in motion, and once they’re here, totalitarianism and the loss of American rights and freedoms has already happened. And the horrible thing is, if at that time, Americans DO wake up, and decide to protest and organize rallies, get together in groups and decide how they will go about making change in the government, the laws will have already been place for people’s RFID to be picked up at the protest sites, people investigated, declared “terrorists” for organizing against the government, have all rights stripped away, detained without trial, using secret evidence against them that they will not be able to see, and basically left to rot in an internment camp somewhere for the rest of their lives, maybe with an occasional day of torture to spice things up.
The time to act is NOW! Tell your congress to stop putting all the pieces of dictatorship and totalitarianism into place, because once that jigsaw puzzle is complete, someone will make use of it.

Comment by in fear — 6 October, 2006 #
This could go on forever because one cannot argue with lunatics. In order to establish a system of debate there must be some common ground that is agreed upon by all parties. For the idiots in here who think that America is headed for totalitarianism, there is no hope for you.

I just wish all of you extremists and socialists would drink the coolaide together, and make the world a better place.

Comment by LiquidMetal — 6 October, 2006 #
Wow, we can both argue that each other is a lunatic, you brought it up however.
I can also argue that you are just as extremist as I am, if not more so.
Why is it that I don’t?

Why must you reduce yourself to nothing more than personal attacks on no basis whatsoever?

Do you have nothing more to say…
The facts have been laid out in front of you:
The changes to constitution: detaining anyone who the president feels is a “threat to the national security”, even US citizens. Not just detaining them, but detaining without charge, any foreigner, for the duration on this war against an abstract noun… Not just detain them with no charge and no right to habeas corpus, but detaining them with every right to torture them – breaking both a 900 year old and 60 year old documents which are accepted by most, if not every government in the western world.

And then arguing about how the terrorists you fight deserve to be tortured because they do it too. You are not in primary school – grow up.
The “terrorists”, whoever they may be, make it their sole purpose in life to kill people, they are taught that they will be rewarded for doing it. Do you feel the same way? Must you treat terrorists in the same way they treat you, while demonising them for doing just that?

There is enough evidence to suggest your government was in a plot to kill its own people.
But not enough evidence to suggest that they went to war against a country because of this plot, however enough propaganda to cloud the minds of the people about issues such as this.

And you say these are minor fuck-ups? You say that only these few people were involved, and they are now in jail. Are you so naive to really believe that?
And then you ask, why the rest of the world doubts your freedoms? The facts are out in front of you, all you have to do is look at them, absorb the information. It may come as a shock, but it is a necessary process…

You ask why they have any rights to question America when they don’t live there?
America’s huge economy, foreign policy, media and political pressure affects every country in the world. Whether it is stealing all their resources and raping their economy, or pressuring them to join these freedom fighting wars, they have influence in every corner of the globe.
This gives anyone every right to question their motives, their “freedom”.

Us extremists and socialists will go drink our cool-aide, but you will be surprised to find that you will be one of the few left…

Comment by junaman — 6 October, 2006 #
In fear, you ask how many constitutional rights were “taken away” or broken? Go ahead and name one. Do you think Muslim Fascist killers deserve our constitutional rights? How about Geneva convention rights? None. They are not in uniform and they have killed 3,000 innocent civilians. You and your socialsit scum of society will live out second class life of blaming others for your lack of ambition, morals and education. Shove it up your a**.

Comment by Mic — 6 October, 2006 #
Great assumption making. In that one sentence you’ve assumed I am poor, live a second class life, lack ambition, morals and an education. And implied that I am somewhat gay…

Constitutional rights taken away?

How about no right to habeas corpus, when Bush decides he doesn’t like you. The ability of them to torture anyone they like, for whatever reason, or lack thereof.

3000 innocent civilians… I’ll run with that if you want (although it’s debatable).
Then explain the 130 000 innocent civilians you have killed in Iraq. So you honestly believe your soldiers should be treated about 40 times worse than the terrorists?

If you even consider yourself civilised, you would know that everyone has a right to be treated like a human being with dignity. The Magna Carta, Geneva Convention, Universal Declaration of Human Rights and your own Constitution (although I will say that some of it I disagree with and hence it is inferior to the aforementioned documents) wasn’t just written for the sake of it… It is more than “just a piece of paper”

Comment by junaman — 6 October, 2006 #
wow, the average American is more ignorant than even I imagined.

liquid metal and mic, that long post I made, read it again. You dismissed it like I was just making stuff up, but I was not. Everything in my post is true and has already happened or has is already being threatened in proposed bills right now. America is not just headed for totalitarianism, it’s already well on it’s way there! By definition, totalitarianism refers to the absolute rule of a leader. The president has already broken laws under the guise of protecting us from terrorists.

-Warrantless wiretapping. It’s already happened, now they’re just trying to pass a bill to make it kosher after the fact (which has already made it past the House)
This breaks the fourth amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures. Do you fucking understand? THEY ARE PASSING LAWS THAT DIRECTLY COUNTER YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! Does that sound very American to you?

-the first amendment right of people to peaceably assemble routinely results in arrests of protestors outside the white house.

-abridging freedom of speech and the press, has already been compromised, as Bush has paid for fake news stories to be published in the media to further their agenda.

-amendment 5 and 6 “nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”, “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial” has been shit on by the detainee act, and as envisioned by the republican side, can be applied to american citizens. At least the democrats only want it against foreign terrorists.

-amendment 8 against cruel and unusual punishments, out the window.

So those are constitutional rights 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, thrown out the window, LEGISLATED away from you, often with the President being the sole decider when it comes to imposing those losses of rights.

And oh yeah, just after 9/11, Bush took advantage of patriotism to make everyone forget about voting irregularities, because of course, in that terrible time, everyone said we should stand behind the president no matter what. So he took advantage and passed the Patriot Act. And he took advantage and took away the decision of going to war from congress, and passed a law that changed the decision to go to war, to be solely up to the president. He authorized illegal wiretapping without warrants. Bush also gathered phone communications records from some telephone companies in the name of “security”, not just of suspected terrorists, but a blanket request of all communications running through those companies’ lines.

go to google and do a search on “without a warrant” and look at all the crap that comes up, all the ways your government is spying on you RIGHT NOW!

All of this enabled by a president who has countless times raised himself above the law, and now is passing laws to try to cover his own administrations ass, and is taking away fundamental American rights.

Liquid metal, if all this power-grabbing by the president does not count as totalitarianism, I think you better look up the word.

Mic, you just haven’t been follwing the news have you? You asked me to name one right that has been taken away, I gave you five of them. And then you spout off some nonsense about whether or not the terrorists deserve these rights. That’s not the real issue. The issue is do YOU deserve these rights? Not according to the current government. Some of them are ALREADY gone and some of them are GOING to be gone. So not only will they be locking away “muslim fascist killers” with no trial, no appeal, but American citizens will be put under that same lens, with identical results. It’s already happened to Jose Padilla, (illegaly) the difference is now the president is going to make it ok.

Comment by in fear — 6 October, 2006 #
Let’s look on the bright side…
At least we can be 100% sure that they won’t alter the 2nd Amendment

Comment by junaman — 6 October, 2006 #
Amen brother,

The 2nd Amendment is one of the major reasons the USA remains free. Self anointed dictators like Hugo the Hutt Chavez wouldn’t be able to change the constitution, nationalize the nation’s largest industries and kill and imprison his opposition.

Comment by Mic — 6 October, 2006 #
Mine was a sarcastic statement filled with irony, and said in a sadistic tone of voice.
To me, such things are disturbing.

Comment by junaman — 6 October, 2006 #
I knew you were being sarcastic. It was funny. But I am serious about 2nd ammendment rights that Rosie O’Donnel would like to take away, while she has armed body guards. Do you see the hypocracy in her low-brow statements?

Comment by Mic — 6 October, 2006 #
Figures, once I post up some irrefutable facts, brainwashed fools like Liquid Metal and Mic have nothing to say except for stupid, inane comments. Have you guys actually realized the errors in your thinking and realized how the president has been destroying the foundation of America? I hope so. Remember that when he was sworn in, this is what he said.

“I, name, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and I will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

Now, call me picky, but I would say that introducing laws that counter the Constitution doesn’t really “preserve, protect and defend” it. But I guess Bush working to the “best of his ability” means “not trying at all, in fact, trying to do the opposite”.

And as for the second amendment, read this article. It’s an interesting opinion piece, about
how people are lulled into thinking that as long as they have guns, they can overlook the destruction of the rest of the constitution.

“The Right to Bear Arms: Wishful Thinking and…”
http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/signs20061005_TheRighttoBearArmsWishfulThinkingandtheSecondAmendmentoftheUSConstitution.php

Liquid Metal and Mic, and any others who weren’t so concerned about where the US is headed, if you do ever realize the danger and realize how seriously degraded our nation has become, losing so much of what makes us American, please, call your congress people and tell them to put a stop to it and even attempt to reverse the Bills that have already been passed.

Comment by in fear — 7 October, 2006 #
Do you understand that the Democrat Party has been destroying the Constitution for the past 60 years? Read me the line in the Constitution “seperation of church and state.” Also, a line about the right of Americans to aport a baby forming in the womb at 8.5 months. And then tell me where in the constitution that Americans should get free health care and employment preferences based on skin color? Next show me where it says illegal aliens, non-citizens have a right to free health care, shelter, legal representation, and later preferred status in university admissions?

Comment by Mic — 7 October, 2006 #
Mic, my dear enemy, you said: “Hey, maybe you are training some Muslims how to speak Spanish? Share with us. Be honest. Wouldn’t you like to see the U.S. crushed?”.

Mic, I don’t want the USA crushed. I should like to see how a great country learns to deal better with their power and chances. For instance, my little country is number one in organ donations in the world. Your government, even with a bigger population in the USA, what is doing to make this world better?. Nothing. Just stealing natural resources to poor countries, helping with their corruption so you can take your cake. No, I don’t want to see the USA crushed. I would like to see your country in hands of honest, humanitarian, CULTIVATED, informed American society. But the ones like you, Cheney (bastard!), Bush (bastard), Mark Foley (hey, they knew his “games” since 2 years ago!, shame!) and other criminals are destrying your own country. If you don’t want another government, OK, keep it, but keep your hands inside your country, till your own revolution comes.

Comment by Rochonf — 7 October, 2006 #
And Mic, your family not only deserves a better USA, but also a better World that YOUR friends are destroying. Think of it.

Comment by Rochonf — 7 October, 2006 #
Oh, Mic, I forgot to say that, as you know, outside the USA we are all negros (even sand-negros as you say), we eat roots in the country and dress leathers, yes, and we are still waiting for the wheel… You really are a poor man. I have an Audi TT, and a SEAT Ibiza (toma-goma), I have three flats, 82000 squared meters, Social Security, free Medical Assistance, a salary when unemployed, many more social advantages (yes, I am a Spaniard), I can say LET’S TAKE BUSH, CHENEY and AZNAR (my ex-president, a toy of Bush) to an International Court in public and private places, not like you, you are a prisoner of your own system. What makes me not being poor is my treasures: a great family, FREEDOM, friends (some of the American like you but not that silly), a great job with a good salary and the respect to my rights around me.

Comment by Rochonf — 7 October, 2006 #
LiquidMetal, nor you nor your mate Mic know what is socialism.

And please, stop thinking you are “something” here, you are just a shit here, like me, and here in the internet you cannot torture me, nor use your guns against me. You have no right better than others here, so, when you say “In order to establish a system of debate there must be some common ground that is agreed upon by all parties, who do you think you are?, you need to control the internet also?, can negros speak by themselves?, are you the refereer?, you inspired by God to put this World in order, damned bastard?. Are you the role to be followed?, are you going to apply Abu Ghraib strategies?, did you exploded all your pimples?. Hey Junaman, watch this guy, he wants to “order” your own blog.

Comment by Rochonf — 7 October, 2006 #
In fear, when I was young I was like you: good manners, careful, patient, even I thought that everybody has got a brain instead of a potato… but after some contact with them… look at me!.

Comment by Rochonf — 7 October, 2006 #
In Fear. I do not want that anybody confuse you with being by my side, you know, it would be a stain in your expedient. But I like that you think by yourself and criticize your own system. That is the way to improve your country, so congratulations. I am conscious that even Democrats wanted the war against Iraq (an illegal war) at the beginning, and as Americans, Democrats are also haughty when they face the World. But at least there is a chance to reflect on yourself and your values, because that chance is ZERO with Bush. If you open your eyes, you will make a great nation. Although he had that affair with that girl, Clinton is a very respected ex-President almost everywhere. Bush and Cheney, I’d like to know whether they also played with young boys like Mark Foley by Florida.

Here you have what your government thinks of Mark Foley: he is Honorable!. Where is his honor?… another bastard. Just check it here:

http://clerk.house.gov/members/electionInfo/Florida_16th/pr.html

Comment by Rochonf — 7 October, 2006 #
Mark Foley. He is called “HONORABLE” by your government. Can you feel his wet honor near you?. What a shame!.

http://clerk.house.gov/members/electionInfo/Florida_16th/pr.html

Comment by Rochonf — 7 October, 2006 #
@ Mic

First of all, let me say that the Democrats are neither perfect, nor close to being so.

But if you try to say they have been destroying the constitution by implementing anything it doesn’t mention, then you’re just bigoted.

Where does it say that Americans have a right to NOT have free health care, to NOT separate Church and State, to NOT be allowed to abort foetuses?

Seems like both parties are guilty in this system of adhering to only what the constitution says…

Comment by junaman — 7 October, 2006 #
in fear
You have some of the most valid points on here.
It is true that America appears to be heading down the road of totalitarianism and its very comforting to know that other people are seeing this. Once some nutcase who is a total megalamaniac gets into the presidency over there the great America that fights for democracy around the world will no longer be democratic.
I think {or at least hope} that Bush will not be the guy to do this. Then again nobody guessed Hitler would!And Saddam had elections “democratically”…Still to me it is very disturbing to see Bush setting up a system where America can become totalitarian.All it takes the right {well wrong really} guy and America is fucked!

Comment by shrinkley — 7 October, 2006 #
Hitler took guns away from civilians early on. Stalin did too. Then Fidel did. Cavez is acutally handing out 100,000 AK-47s too his young devoted thugs to “protect the sate.”

So you can read what you want in the Constitution, like tea leaves? As that how you Democrats do it?

Comment by Mic — 8 October, 2006 #
Mic, just don’t invade Venezuela nor steal their petrol nor block their economy nor threst them. Just live as a happy American inside USA and attend your matters inside your borders. That way, you will never taste their Ak-47. It’s so easy to understand so… but it seems you cannot. And you?, how many guns do you have at home?… why do you have that guns?… does it means that your compatriots are a threat to your family?… do they need a preentive shot?… Do you have more rights than people from Venezuela about guns?… Anyway, guns are just shit. While everybody has guns, you feel more insecure, and it’s easy to control your fears from the government. That is your real life in the USA. Go home and make love to your wife (if she wants so) and be happy with your children. Just live in a peaceful way, and live many years.

Comment by Rochonf — 8 October, 2006 #
Have a read of this

Comment by junaman — 9 October, 2006 #
Hey mick

Civilains dont have guns here in australia,
To get one you need special licenses, registrations on your weapons, special laws prohibit what guns if any you can own and to get through all of these to get a gun it costs you an absolute fortune. Basically only a very few people in Australia have guns, I dont know anyone who does!
We arent about to fall to a fierce government as a result of this…..youre linking irrelevant things to each other

Comment by shrinkley — 9 October, 2006 #
Shrinkley is compeletely right.

If civilians have guns the military undoubtedly has bigger guns. And big red buttons…

Comment by junaman — 9 October, 2006 #
We have to register our guns as well. And the government does a background check on you. But they can’t keep a list of all gun owners. Of course this country is full of liberal hypocrits with big mouths, such as Rosie O’Donnel, who speaks out against citizens’ gun ownership, while her body guards have guns and they rough up the media at will.

Roch, Yes I have guns. All legal and cleared. When I was 13, I was a member of the NRA and I earned marksman medals while in the Boy Scouts. Firearms are not evil.

Comment by Mic — 9 October, 2006 #
Shrinkley’s attitude is just what BIG BROTHER/ BIG SIS wants from their people. Government knows best.

Comment by Mic — 9 October, 2006 #
How do you hypothesise that?
You can’t go out and say: firearms are not evil. And back it up with absolutely nothing… Medals earned as a boy scout does not reduce the level of evil in a firearm…

Practically no one in Australia has a gun, because only those in professions that need them may have one. It’s not about whether they are signed or not here…

Comment by junaman — 9 October, 2006 #
Regarding your second post Mic, you are the one supporting the big government here. If you support Bush’s neo-cons, you tend to do that you know…

Comment by junaman — 9 October, 2006 #
How do you figure that? It’s the Hillary Clinton/Kerry who believe it takes a villiage to raise your kids and want to restrict guns following socialist systems.

Comment by Mic — 10 October, 2006 #
In the known civilized countries (but the USA) people cannot carry a gun like it was a mobile phone. A special license is needed.

But WE all know that you, in the USA, are allowed to carry guns for two main reasons:

1.- your government lets you deliver “justice” because your government cannot control so many killers. As they can not be responsible and effective, they pass you the hot potato.

2.- while everyody has guns, you ALL are afraid of your neighbours, of the people you meet in the street, you live in a constant and permanent feeling of insecurity. That way, you are easyly manipulated in the name of SECURITY. Different opinions are INSECURE, other Races and Religions are a threat to you… You are leaded as sheeps by your governors.

That is the USA in my opinion.

Besides, why do you need guns?, because of Muslim people?… hahaaa. You need it to be secured from your own compatriots. A pity.

A socialist system: our government aproved few days ago a new law. People with disabilities, people that cannot live by themselves have a FREE social assistant at their home. Our Social Security is a SOCIALIST great social security system. If you pay atention to other European countries, you will realize how small you are in the USA, Mic.

Comment by Rochonf — 10 October, 2006 #
That is an amazing story. Your country is doomed. Who do you think will pay for having a special social services person for each disabled person? Your middle class and small businesses. Why don’t they just close their businesses and say they are disabled too? Do you call drunks and drug users disabled too?

I didn’t know that Spain had such an uneducated populous! What an excellent lesson for al of us to watch! Keep us posted. What’s your unemployment rate now? Let’s see what it is next year!

By the way, it’s so safe here, that I can leave my front door unlocked.

Comment by Mic — 10 October, 2006 #
Mic, you fool, only an idiot would think that losing our constitutional rights is a democrat/republican issue. IT’S AN AMERICAN ISSUE! I don’t give a flying fuck what your allegiances are, all I care about is whether or not you love your country! So I just have a couple of questions that I’d like you to answer.
Do you stand for America, it’s values, it’s freedoms, and if you do, would you be willing to stand against any politician, regardless of their alignment, and regardless of your own, if they threatened what makes America great?

Comment by in fear — 10 October, 2006 #
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ms-FzojRmLk&eurl=

It’s funny how President Bush has always talked about the war on terror as being one about “freedom.” Bush is always talking about how the terrorists “hate our freedoms”, want to “take away our freedoms” and then it turns out that it is that same president, NOT the terrorists, that have taken away our American rights and freedoms. Do Americans understand this? Does Mic? I have no strong political affiliation. I am not for any party or politician, but the one that does what is best for me, my family, my country.

Comment by in fear — 10 October, 2006 #
Whats your unemployment rate mic?

Lets compare….ill bet that those countries with an adequate social welfare system have lower unemployment! how about your average wages??? poverty levels????
Youll find that your great United States of America is way behind the eight ball comparitively!

“Shrinkley’s attitude is just what BIG BROTHER/ BIG SIS wants from their people. Government knows best.”
WTF?????? Is it not your president who is taking away your freedoms under the threat of “terrorsits”??? And isnt it you idiots who believed your government when they said that Saddam had WMD’s??? And when they said it was gonna be good for the worlds security to invade Afghanistan/Iraq?Seems that YOUR attitude must be “Government knows best.”

And youre statement suggests that Australias government is trying to control all of us! Do you know anything??we have a great level of freedom in Australia as good as anywhere else in the world!
Even though I object to my current prime minister I object MORE to you suggesting that he is trying to make a totalitarist government.. it appears yours could actually be doing just that though!

Comment by shrinkley — 10 October, 2006 #
Our unemployment rate is the as low as it can get at about 4.5 percent. Our tax rates have been temporarily lowered thanks to Bush and the Republians, but as soon as the Democrats take over, they will be back up.

While their ions like Ted Kennedy (tax free trusts and richest senator) and Nancy Pelosi, (the richest person in the house of representatives) pat each other on the back, will ratchet up taxes again. Pelosi may have the record number of plastic surgeries and face lifts of any government official in the world.

Comment by Mic — 10 October, 2006 #
Mic
Nice job avoiding my comment about the destruction of our rights and freedoms and instead going off into inane comments (AGAIN)about some politician’s plastic surgery. But what can you expect from a society that is more concerned about what party Paris Hilton was at than what is happening to our democracy?
You still don’t understand, that’s it’s not about republicans vs. democrats. It’s about America and about doing what is right for our nation. It is about patriotism and questioning government when it is harming our national identity and the very foundation upon which it was built.
Now go ahead and say something trivial about Rosie O’Donnel again, you idiot.

Comment by in fear — 11 October, 2006 #
About Rosie’s armed guards? I don’t know of any rights and freedoms being taken away? Is it the government tapping into conversations between terrorists in other countries discussing a US fatwa with a nuke going off in New York? I’m OK with that. But what about the cameras that catch you going threw a yellow-turned red light, and fining you $300 and your insurance shoots up? Now, people are slamming on their brakes and dying in traffic accidents because of that Big Brother/Big sis idea. What else?

Comment by Mic — 12 October, 2006 #
What about the constitutional rights you’ve lost? Care to fight for them, or are you ok with that too?

And no, they’re not just wire-tapping terrorists, they’re listening in on everyone’s conversations. Every American citizen is a suspect.

Comment by in fear — 12 October, 2006 #
They can listen in on my conversations, about when to pick up my daughters from school, dance, soccer. What the hell do I care what they hear me talking about? But the reality is they are not listening to everyone. And if they did listen in on a crime I was planning, they couldn’t do anything about it if it was not homeland terrorisim.

Comment by Mic — 12 October, 2006 #
But what about the cameras that catch you going threw a yellow-turned red light, and fining you $300 and your insurance shoots up? Now, people are slamming on their brakes and dying in traffic accidents because of that Big Brother/Big sis idea.

Uhh?

So listening in on people is not Big Brother/Big sis, but putting cameras at intersections is????

Comment by junaman — 12 October, 2006 #
They can listen in on my conversations, about when to pick up my daughters from school, dance, soccer. What the hell do I care what they hear me talking about? But the reality is they are not listening to everyone. And if they did listen in on a crime I was planning, they couldn’t do anything about it if it was not homeland terrorisim.

Do you masturbate in public?

Comment by junaman — 12 October, 2006 #
Hey Junaman, Srinkley, In Fear, we are loosing time. This Mic do not wants to use his brain. He is a slave, he is a piece of meat, his brain has no value because of his own decision.

You, In Fear, people like you have a lot of work to do at home. I cannot guess HOW could you, in your country, arrive to that point, what sort of things could your politicians tell your compatriots so you get that sort of “human beings”. Your presidents (I miss Clinton) told you that you will reach heaven if you believe their words, and they manipulated the USA population along decades. I think that you have many Mics at home, and it will not be easy to show them the truth.

I really think that Mic doesn’t think all the men are equal. He thinks God is keeping a nice paradise for him, because God and Bush (and criminal Cheney) are intimate friends. Perhaps he would kill or violate his own daughters in the name of the USA if they demand so.

The USA is a Terrorist State. I hope some day you understand it fully.

Now comes the time that we have to face THE TRUTH. The problem is not in being republican nor democrat. The problem is in your education. Is democrat people more intelligent and cultivated than republicans?.

I am scared of this humankind. This humankind has a country (the USA) that considers that being a pedophile is more inmoral than killing, kidnapping, invading sovereign countries, violating foreign population… Many republicans support those crimes, but think pedophilia is even worst. I think that you need a deeep revolution into your mind. If you could use your strength, your power to really help the world…

Today is October 12th. In a day like this, in 1492, Cristobal Columbus arrived to America under the Spanish Crown. Today is a great day for Hispanic culture, but we, the Spaniards, are conscious and ashamed of our imperialist past. After Spain stablished a commercial way between Europe and America, the Spaniards, French, English, Dutch, etc. went there to take profit of the natural reserves of the natives. The Spanish Catholic Church protected the natives after a period of abuse, killing, slavism. Today, the native peoples from the old Spanish occupied areas in America are alive and are majority in most (not all) cases, we cannot say the same about the French and British areas. Although we keep a special cultural link with our Hispanic native American brothers, we are ashamed of what we did. The worst alien we brought there was not the deseases, but the human being themselves, and its poison called PROUD.

Comment by Rochonf — 12 October, 2006 #
People like you are why the Muslims will behead you and turn your daughters and wives into low-level animals, without education or rights.

Free enterprise is not a God-given right, it has to be earned, understood and maybe even worth fighting for. But your sick, hedonistic, athiestic life has no morals, goals or progress.

We still celebrate Columbus Day. But, if he didn’t get the funding from Spain, maybe the English, Dutch or Italians would have found the New World a few decades later. So what? You think that the natives, who migrated here from Asia, would be allowed to kill their opponants and virgins as offerings to their Mian gods? Do you understand anything? It’s people like you, hatefilled, moderately educated, disgruntled losers that believe Big Brother/Big Sis in a Socialist government will take care of you and allow you to have sex with teenagers and take away any profits from Big “Bad” Business, so that you can drink and smoke the night away, and nurse your hangover the next day in your dirty coffee shops discussing how superior you are to the dumb Americans.

Comment by Mic — 13 October, 2006 #
First of all I am not from U.S.A. and I do not believe you have the right to call your country america. But that is off the point. When i saw the attacks of 9/11, I, as well of most of the world, felt a deep regret that such a great nation had been dealt such a terrible blow. We joined you in your grief and hoped that whoever had commited such attrocities would be soon found and brought to justice. But as I see these photos filled with horrors committed by some of you and approved by the rest I am forced to accept the fact that you are not better than the terrorist, torturing human beings? even more your goverment saying its ok??? un-FUCKING-believable, you ate the lies your administration spoon fed you, the same administration that is suposed to care about the victims of 9/11, yet 5 years later no memorial to the dead has been built. You went to war and took countless civilian lives under the pretext that Saddam had “Weapons of Mass Destruction” yet these were nowere to be found. Yes i once felt sympathy for you but now no more, i do not hate you nor the clown you have elected as president neither the crooks that surrond him, I feel only pity for you and hope that soon you will see your mistakes and remember that what goes around comes around, all the pain you are causing will be given back to you for violence breeds only violence not peace.

Comment by Calibraxis — 13 October, 2006 #
Are Islamofascists homosexuals? I’m serious. There is something queer about their men-only worship and the horrible way they treat their women. I’m just curious.

Comment by Mic — 13 October, 2006 #
Are Islamofascists homosexuals? I’m serious. There is something queer about their men-only worship and the horrible way they treat their women. I’m just curious.

Comment by Mic — 13 October, 2006

Are you retarded? Or in anyway mentally impaired?

Comment by Calibraxis — 13 October, 2006 #
Mic if you think it’s ok for the government to spy on it’s own citizens and on you because you’ve got nothing to hide, you’re a fool. Granting a government these kinds of powers does for totalitarianism what handing a gun to a psychopath does for the murder rate. And you are wrong in your thinking that the government couldn’t do anything if they overhear you planning a crime if it isn’t “homeland terrorism”. They could act on any evidence and have police just show up at your home without a warrant and arrest you on the spot. With the way the legislation is worded, ANYTHING that threatens security can be classified as terrorism. Stealing a damn car and going on a joyride through the city could be interpreted as a threat to security. How would the authorities know you weren’t planning on using that car in a car bomb attack? There you go, classified as a detainee and locked away for the rest of your life with no trial, and have fun with the waterboarding! I don’t know how many ways I have to explain this until you understand exactly how all of these recent bills have completely turned upside down the entire definition of what it means to be an American and live in the society that we have built up for the past couple hundred years. In five years, everything that has defined the US has gone out the window, all in the name of protecting us from terrorists. And our own government has taken away more freedoms than the terrorists ever could have, as Bush kept warning us.

And you STILL haven’t addressed the loss of constitutional rights. Should I assume if you’re ok with the government taking away your privacy, you are also ok with losing the rights that makes you an American?

Comment by in fear — 13 October, 2006 #
The rights taken away? How about in California, the right of white middle class students to be admitted to colleges in their own state. Even if they are in the top 10 percent, that is no guarantee. In Texas, if a student is in the Top 10 percent, they are automatically admitted to a state university, regardless of their skin color. Amazing isn’t it?

Comment by Mic — 13 October, 2006 #
Umm, relevance?

Comment by junaman — 13 October, 2006 #
Your goverment is taking away your constitutional rights??? What happened to “The land of the free” stuff. Bush seems to be a dictator more and more, taking freedom of speech away, due process, human rights and now i hear he is taking away your right to privacy. Fucked up, but this happened because you allowed him too. Oh and by the way Rumsfeld is a liar.

Comment by Calibraxis — 13 October, 2006 #
What did Rumsfeld say that makes you think that? Where did you learn that, by reading about Rumsfeld or by reading your spoon-fed Democrat/Socialist lies?

I think think I know the answer. I still don’t know about any constitutional rights Bush took away. I gave you an example of Democrats taking rights away from middle class whites. I didn’t get into the Democrats push for redistribution of wealth.

Comment by Mic — 13 October, 2006 #
Wiretapping, removal of right to fair trial, torture, detainment without charge… is that really not enough?

Comment by junaman — 13 October, 2006 #
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnNiW1_bUFE

Watch it yourself he is a liar.

Comment by Calibraxis — 14 October, 2006 #
Wiretapping is allowed all the time and has been for a long time. Torture? Like a pair of undies on your head, or a German Shepard near you, compared with your head being cut off if you are Jewish? I read about Rumsfeld and saw a documentary about him. He is an amazing, intelligent human being. He fought in the Korean War as a fighter jet pilot and served several presidents with distinction.

Comment by Mic — 14 October, 2006 #
Here to add more 2cents worth of common sense.

Its quite funny how mic keeps diverting the issue. I still havent quite figured out wether or not he is a propaganda troll or not.

Ronchof: Having read your posts you mirror all the concwerns that I share. Well laid out arguments. Obviously, me agreeing with you automatically labels me a socialist and liberal (im from South Africa) in the eyes of most god-fearing americans and all words heretofortwith are bound to be dismissed (in the same repetative pattern) as liberal leftwing drivel. O well.

Mic:

In regards to people living outside the States NOT knowing and NOT having the right to comment on american issues.

Your media is controlled by corporations. News corp (Rupert Murdoch and other entities like him) owns Fox News and every other channel that you get your information from. News corp does NOT pay any taxes…. fact.

Why?

Ask the government. American media is a sort of extra limb. The propaganda department. Sound unbelievable? Americans arent bad. They make good choices within the parameters that are given. The problem is that the government and the mainstream media decides on the paramaters and the size of the box that you are able to see in.

People on the outside are often in a better position to truthfully comment on the situations in the USA, why, because we are not exposed to the power structures that exist to subdue dissenting opinions.

All i ask is.. STOP trusting in the government. THINK for yourself. STOP getting your information from any source backed by BIG MONEY. The internet is your saviour. Keep on looking… and allow yourself to at least toy with other perspectives…do not out rightly deny them out of pride.

We are all the same. But Americans have a disease…. its called narcissism, delusions of grandure and self-importance, brought about by a fear and delusion that everyone that is not american is jealous. Whilst the rest of the world stands by and just shakes their head in disbelief trying to go on with their own business. Which we gladly would if you stopped interfering.

the US and its 52nd state (israel) has vetoed just about ANY pro-humanitarian UN resolution since the fifties. From human rights…to stopping the genocide in RWANDA (5 million deaths) to the environment (Kyoto Protocol).

America is standing in front of a mirror, oogling its botoxed and plastic-surgery enhanced physique, whilst paranoia is ripe inside. The btox is beginning to rot…the silicone is shifting. And the surgical scars are becoming inflamed.

We sit by and watch this disgusting excess of self-importance and gile. America is ruled by Fear. And it is by fear that the Us government rules.

What is a terrorist? The word is being thrown around like prozac within the walls of america and the rest of the world which it influences.

but WHAT is a terrorist. Define the world. Who is a terrorist.

“THEY want to destroy OUR freedom”

WHO are THEY? Terrorism is an act. It is not an identity. It is not a shared value system. It is not a skin color. It is not an accent. It is an act against the present dominant form of establishment and as such is JUST a political term, like Democrat, Republican, Liberal, Left-wing, Right-wing and Objective.

What do activists have in common? What to theorists have in common? What do environmentalists have in common? What do football players have in common? Can you make ANY across the board judgement about a yerrorist based on that information? No.

So how does BUSH know what terrorists want?
only 1 rational explanation:
He made it up.

America is in love with its own hype. But the shouting voice is becoming softer in relation to the dissenting RATIONAL voices thatb are speaking up.

We are these shouting voices…. The internet is our podium. We will create our OWN media. Our own beliefs and our own way of explaining the world.

Our way will not be based on fear, or money, or oil, or political power, or bonds. It will not be controlled by a gatekeeper (the CEO of the media corporations/ Defense Secretary/ Pres/ Heads of Fed Bank).

Our way is based on logic, argument and universal understanding. An integrative approach. We are taking the power back, for the first time in history.

You are part of this, because you are joining in the dialogue. Sure everyone has their perspective…the worldview they were given by the ir parents, or the media or whatever. And.. because we are psychological beings and have fragile egos it is not easy to accept that things that we take for granted as true, arent.

Our generation wukk find it hard to adjust….to wake up from the fake matric that the media has managed to create. CNN, FOX, BBC, SKY, all of it is the same. They all answer to the same thing – money – withot it it wouldnt exists.

But the structure is crumbling. In its place will be us.

Our generation will be ewternalised. We are he first generation to have this luxury. Your grand-children’s grand-children will be able to read your blogs. Look at your photos. Watch your home-videos and read up on what you did in your life and wether or not you were part of the problem or part of the solution.

Comment by nastie.ed — 14 October, 2006 #
Nastie,

I don’t believe in Big Brother, major media either. I know that they protect their big advertisers and investors. Fox is not perfect, but just 10 years ago, all we had was CNN and the major networks. They are media monopolies and benefit from a mass market of consumers with “liberal” thoughts and no ambition to build their own businesses. The internet is bringing out intelligent, differing view points. I think for myself. I know that Bush isn’t the best speaker. That’s OK. What am I, a sheeple who needs a good looking and speaking actor to say nice warm things as we go down the road to socialism and become high-tech peasants.

Don’t fall for the “global warming,” socialist model. It is for the masses.

Comment by Mic — 14 October, 2006 #
Mic, now I am sure, you have a salary by defending the republican position. How I wish you’d show your face to the World so they can know how a Dumb is. I am happy because you will have to keep yourself hidden like a rat, you are going to loose your elections, I WILL BE HERE that day the next month. I trust the USA People, they will put you and criminals like you in the right place.

Comment by Rochonf — 14 October, 2006 #
The USA will remain free even if Republicans lose the House, they will still hold the Senate and of course the President’s position, and hold off the hedonistic, shallow, uneducated, drug using, low lives who hate the successful and want to feed off of society rather than contribute and earn a living.

Comment by Mic — 14 October, 2006 #
Err…

Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin. They have a lot in common…

Comment by junaman — 14 October, 2006 #
Junaman, a chimp and human share about 98 percent of their DNA. It’s the tiny differences that matter.

Comment by Mic — 14 October, 2006 #
Whatever analogy you try to make, doesn’t change the fact that the Dems are just as influenced by money and corporations as the Republicans.

Just have a read of this

Comment by junaman — 14 October, 2006 #
Have a watch of the video I just put up here.

Comment by junaman — 14 October, 2006 #
I watched the spliced together video you put there. That was passed by both parties. My bank and credit card companies know a lot more about me than the government does.

Is the video there to say killers saved from death on a battlefield are intitled to taxpayer supported, free lawyers? Eat some California lettuce, please.

Comment by Mic — 14 October, 2006 #
That was passed by both parties.

Exactly… you now see my point about them being very similar.

Is the video there to say killers saved from death on a battlefield are intitled to taxpayer supported, free lawyers?

Yes…
and not only that, but that U.S. citizens who can be detained without charge (and according to the act they can be) should be allowed a free lawyer. Not only that, but anyone detained without charge should have the right to a non-tax payer funded civilian lawyer (which this act [or one of those other passed in the last few weeks] also forbids]…

And not only that, but they should have the right to a trial, even if they are only allowed to defend themselves…

Comment by junaman — 14 October, 2006 #
Mic you said
“I still don’t know about any constitutional rights Bush took away.”

Did you read my message further up, where I specifically listed which five constitutional rights have been taken away by Bush’s bills?

http://junaman.wordpress.com/2006/10/02/dont-avert-your-eyes/#comment-844

Read it again, then answer if you think it is very American to take away the rights upon which America was built. My guess is you will just ignore my message AGAIN, for about the fourth time.

Comment by in fear — 15 October, 2006 #
And Rumsfeld sucks. But don’t believe me, read what one of the most respected General of the past twenty years has to say. He was even held in high regard by the Bush administration, but even he knows when to give criticism where it was deserved.

quote from the article
“the Bush administration thought so highly of Zinni that it appointed him to one of its highest diplomatic posts”

General Zinni criticises Rumsfeld’s mishandling of Iraq. And he should have been gone a long time ago, and in fact wanted to resign at one point, but Bush didn’t accept his resignation. Rumsfeld is such an idiot, he threatened anyone who even wanted to plan for an exit out of Iraq!!! What kind of idiot is he? No wonder the US is mired in Iraq now, because Rumsfeld wouldn’t even allow anyone to plan for the exit-strategy!

Now Mic, I’m sure you’ll ignore this hard evidence and facts, like you have in all my other posts, and just change the subject again.

Comment by in fear — 15 October, 2006 #
Here’s the link to the article about General Zinni criticizing Rumsfeld and the rest of the administration for their incompetence.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/21/60minutes/main618896.shtml

Comment by in fear — 15 October, 2006 #
Is Zinni a Russian or Polish nationalist? He is just one of about 400 generals in that time period. Do you realize what kind of low-level lab rat you are to be spoon fed this kind of sh#t? You are a sad, dumb bastard.

Comment by Mic — 16 October, 2006 #
If you can get me articles of the other 399 praising the administration, I’ll believe you…

Comment by junaman — 16 October, 2006 #
I won’t be able to do that, many were promoted during the Clintonista era. But, your one ex-general is a very silly arguement.

We will see how American voters feel about who runs the country better. Who has actual plans to fight terror, not cave in to it.

Comment by Mic — 17 October, 2006 #
Again, Mic, I come at you with nothing but facts, and you come back with nothing of substance. He is not just “one of about 400″ he was appointed, by the Bush administration itself, to one of their most respected positions. But you probably didn’t bother to read the article, as I see you have no rebuttals to it.
Bush most definitely has no actual plans to fight terror. As I already mentioned, Rumsfeld himself forbid anyone to make plans for the terror and sectarian violence that was sure to follow, that everyone but him seemed to know was coming. (Even I knew it, and I’m nobody special, just someone with common sense)
And how american voters feel will probably be inconsequential if Bush’s camp steals another election. Yes, here are some articles detailing nothing but hard evidence to that fact.

Extensive Rolling Stone article detailing many instances
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

20 facts about voting in America
http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html

and related, AMAZING Clinton Curtis testimony talking about how software to fix the election was requested of him by Republicans and companies they lobbied for in Florida. The software flipped any result to 51-49 in favor of candidate of any choosing. This is very interesting, considering the outcome of Bush’s elections, in the way that he seemingly came back from being way behind in exit polls to win by the slimmest of margins in the final tallies, at something on the order of 250 million to 1 odds. The Rolling Stone article goes into details on those results.

Clinton Curtis testimony watch all of it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wviWDGm9mNg

Fascism, totalitarianism is alive and well in America. Under Bush, America has been doing things that we once thought only happened in other, undemocratic countries.

-torture
-secret prisons
-detainment camps
-loss of freedom of speech, of the press
-fraudulent elections
-absolute rule, with no laws apparently applicable to the president
-illegal, unjust war
-loss of human rights
-loss of right to fair trial
-loss of personal privacy
-anything else?

Again, Mic, I’ve addressed all the points in your posts, with hard facts, and I’m STILL eagerly awaiting for that one post from you that refutes any of the evidence I have pointed out.

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
And Mic, I see you only addressed my Rumsfeld comments, but ignored my question regarding constitutional rights (for about the FIFTH time).
I’ll ask it again.

Did you read my message further up, where I specifically listed which five constitutional rights have been taken away by Bush’s bills?

http://junaman.wordpress.com/2006/10/02/dont-avert-your-eyes/#comment-844

Read it again, then answer if you think it is very American to take away the rights upon which America was built.

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
well, I just posted a long message and it didn’t get through. GRRRR. here goes again…

Russian or Polish…? What does that have to do with anything? He’s not just “one of about 400″, he’s one of the most respected generals in Bush’s own administration. Let me make this clear, he’s one of Bush’s own pets, yet even he cannot stomach the incompetence of his own bosses and spoke out, rightly.
Bush and co. have no actual plans to fight terrorism, only plans to fatten the pocketbooks of themselves, their families and friends. Rumsfeld himself forbid anyone to plan an exit strategy in Iraq for the terrorism and sectarian violence that was sure to follow an invasion. Everybody knew they should have been planning for it, except Rumsfeld, it seems. Even I knew it, and I’m nobody special, just someone with common sense. Bush and co. are not fighting terrorism, they are ultimately giving in to terror and establishing in America, all those things that the terrorists, in their undemocratic countries where violence is the rule of law, were trying to bring about. Funny huh? NOw in America we have

-secret prisons
-detainment camps
-loss of privacy
-loss of freedom of speech, and of the press
-absolute rule of the president, who is above any laws
-government sponsored torture
-loss of human rights
-loss of right to a fair trial
-election fraud (I’ll get to that in a separate post)

Fascism and totalitarianism is alive and well, and GROWING in America. Terrorists with AK-47s couldn’t do all this in America in a million years! Bush and his laws did it in about 5 years.

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
Warrantless wiretapping. This breaks the fourth amendment against unreasonable searches and seizures. Do you fucking understand? We are discussing Muslim terror plots of conversations between enimies of our country. Do you get it?

THEY ARE PASSING LAWS THAT DIRECTLY COUNTER YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS! Does that sound very American to you?
-the first amendment right of people to peaceably assemble routinely results in arrests of protestors outside the white house.

Right. There are laws against un-peaceful assembly, do u understand? Did you go to school in a little yellow bus?

Comment by Mic — 17 October, 2006 #
You are just repeating the socialist rants. The US Constitution doesn’t apply to those killing us. Or did you think it did?

President Lincoln actually had reporters arrested and held in jails until after the Civil War. FDR held Japanese and Italian Americans in detention camps. He was known as a leftest Democrat. No problems with that? JFK is the one who ordered the Cuba imbargo.

Again, you didn’t show me “separation of church and state.” And where it says non-citizens shall receive advanced placement in universities due to the color of their skin.

Comment by Mic — 17 October, 2006 #
Election fraud.

Mic, it seems it doesn’t matter what the voters do, because Bush’s camp will probably just fix the elections anyway. Here’s an extensive article detailing much of the fraud that went on, documented, verified instances of laws being broken, even contrary to court decisions, to enable republican candidates to win their elections!

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

20 amazing, suspicious facts about voting in America
http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html

Amazing and shocking testimony by Clinton Curtis about republicans and the friends they lobby for asking him to design software to enable election fraud. Watch all of this, it gets more and more incredible as it goes on! The software was to flip any result to a 51-49 split in favour of a candidate of their choosing. Whatever the vote was, 90-10, whatever, the final would be 51-49 in favour of candidate X. This is especially interesting considering how unbelievably, against something like 250 million to 1 odds, in the final tallies, Bush countered all signs from the exit polls and won by the slimmest of margins. Any voting expert will tell you that results significantly deviated from exit polls indicate tampering. The tampering that was indicated in Bush’s elections hinted at something astronomical. Something on the order of thousands upon thousands of all the final votes all going to his side, a statistical near-impossibility.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wviWDGm9mNg

Please Mic, at least check these out, read them and watch. I would like to point out again that this isn’t a democrat vs. republican issue. If democrats were pulling this kind of shit over the American people I would be EQUALLY as vocal, because all of this is not what America is about. All of this, the list in my previous post, election fraud, all of this is the kind of stuff we used to think only happened in backward, undemocratic countries in far-off places. But it’s all happened here now. I’m not trying to turn you into a democrat, I’m trying to make you realize what makes you American, and realize that regardless of party, you, me, we are all losing that, and we have to stop it.

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
Mic, do you understand that they are not just listening in on muslim terrorists? They are listening in on everybody. Why do you think that the government asked for, and received from some of the telephone companies, records of every single phone call in their databases?
And I guess you’re ok with the government breaking the law and constitution then?

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/aug2006/tc20060818_382622.htm?campaign_id=bier_bier_tpnun

Mic, you said “Right. There are laws against un-peaceful assembly, do u understand? Did you go to school in a little yellow bus?”

Right, and I mentioned PEACEFUL assemblies. Funny how you don’t care about the law when the government breaks it, but you care about enforcing laws against people who AREN’T breaking any! Hypocrite! Your arguments contradict themselves, because you have no real position you are standing on, you’re just arguing for argument’s sake.

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
“President Lincoln actually had reporters arrested and held in jails until after the Civil War. FDR held Japanese and Italian Americans in detention camps. He was known as a leftest Democrat. No problems with that? JFK is the one who ordered the Cuba imbargo.”

Of course I have a problem with that. Like I said before, these aren’t democrat vs. republican issues. You seem to LOVE pointing mistakes that democrats make, and think that I will somehow defend them. I’ve got news for you, I’m neither firmly democrat or republican. The only thing I believe in are American values, which under the current administration are being ripped apart. If it was democrats doing it, I’d be just as vocal against them, because I am a PATRIOT!

Again, you didn’t show me “separation of church and state.” And where it says non-citizens shall receive advanced placement in universities due to the color of their skin.

That doesn’t have anything to do with government policy, but the rules of individual institutions, which may be flawed and challenged in court. My concerns are greater, such as the laws being passed in this country that are changing America.
So let me get this straight, you’re more concerned about some rules some little pissant in some university has decided to implement, but not concerned about the fundamentals of your country and your rights being taken away from you, decisions that affect all 300 million of us?

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
these just aren’t getting through… so I’ll post in pieces

Election fraud2.

Mic, it seems it doesn’t matter what the voters do, because Bush’s camp will probably just fix the elections anyway. Here’s an extensive article detailing much of the fraud that

went on, documented, verified instances of laws being broken, even contrary to court decisions, to enable republican candidates to win their elections!

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
20 amazing, suspicious facts about voting in America
http://nightweed.com/usavotefacts.html

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
Amazing and shocking testimony by Clinton Curtis about republicans and the friends they lobby for asking him to design software to enable election fraud. Watch all of this, it gets more and more incredible as it goes on! The software was to flip any result to a 51-49 split in favour of a candidate of their choosing. Whatever the vote was, 90-10, whatever, the final would be 51-49 in favour of candidate X. This is especially interesting considering how unbelievably, against something like 250 million to 1 odds, in the
final tallies, Bush countered all signs from the exit polls and won by the slimmest of margins. Any voting expert will tell you that results significantly deviated from exit polls indicate tampering. The tampering that was indicated in Bush’s elections hinted at something astronomical. Something on the order of thousands upon thousands of all the final votes all going to his side, a statistical near-impossibility.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wviWDGm9mNg

Please Mic, at least check these out, read them and watch. I would like to point out again that this isn’t a democrat vs. republican issue. If democrats were pulling this kind of

shit over the American people I would be EQUALLY as vocal, because all of this is not what America is about. All of this, the list in my previous post, election fraud, all of this is the kind of stuff we used to think only happened in backward, undemocratic countries in far-off places. But it’s all happened here now. I’m not trying to turn you into a democrat, I’m trying to make you realize what makes you American, and realize that regardless of party, you, me, we are all losing that, and we have to stop it.

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
Hah, this article just came out recently, and it backs up both my arguments that the government is spying on everyone, common citizens included, whether they are terrorists or not, AND backs up the fact that the government is targetting PEACEFUL assemblies.

http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idarticle=6077

Comment by in fear — 17 October, 2006 #
in fear, your previous comments were put into moderation, probably because they contained >2 links…

If that happens you have to wait for me to allow them, which I have done and they will appear back in the time frame when you first posted them.. inconvenient for the flow of the debate, but don’t repost everything…

Comment by junaman — 17 October, 2006 #
In fear. You are a studious individual. But a bit easily swayed. You say you are neither Republican nor Democrat, but you continue to link us to the Democrat socialist points.

We all know that it is in Democrat controlled voting districts in Florida and Ohio where the Democrat machine tried to flip election results for first Al Gore then Kerry.

Next you will be linking us to how perfect Hillary is for America. Right? Haven’t you received your Democrat/Socialist marching orders? Share with us.

Comment by Mic — 17 October, 2006 #
By being in line with a certain ideology, or even taking differing views on all issues, in fear does not have to support the Democrats, he can although support what he likes from their party, and oppose what he doesn’t…

And do you have any proof of voting fraud by democrats? At least some articles…

Comment by junaman — 17 October, 2006 #
I don’t point out “democrat socialist points”, I continue to link to a variety of sources critical of the current government. I am not making a stand on any issues in particular, I am only being critical of the current government in the mistakes they have made and in the un-American things they have done. Election fraud is a serious matter that undermines democracy in the most disgusting way imaginable. The day people’s votes don’t matter is the day that evil takes over the country. The fact that it’s the republicans who have the most damaging evidence against them is nothing to me but a circumstance. If democrats were to be undermining the will of the people in that way I would be just as critical.
Now you have not shown any evidence of democrats trying their luck at election fraud. The articles I’ve linked to, the sworn testimony of individuals, the fact that the biggest voting machine companies are pushing for their paper-trail-less machines that have been demonstrably easily tampered with (google voting machine tampering, or look up youtube, as I find it far more informative to look up information yourself than to merely be fed links), all of this points to a sinister plot on the grandest of scales. I’m not talking about some little partisan election volunteer stuffing in a few more ballots for the guy they like, but a grand, concerted, orchestrated effort to undermine the election results in the most damaging way possible. Somehow the last 2 elections have been won by Bush with the largest turnouts and by the slimmest of margins, contrary to the results of advanced and exit polls by a statistically significant amount that points to tampering.
Put that fact together with Curtis’ testimony of Feeney wanting software that would hide election fraud, and flip any result to a 51-49 split, and it all seems very suspicious.
I think Hilary is a reasonably smart woman who would give a unique perspective on things, but would I vote for her? She hasn’t proven anything to me, and if she wasn’t a former first-wife, we wouldn’t even know she existed.
Mic, are you still one of the dwindling few who actually likes Bush?

Comment by in fear — 18 October, 2006 #
It’s the economy and war on terror and lower taxes and individualism vs. Big Brother/Big Sis that I like about Bush.

Unemployment is 4.5 percent, inflation and interest rates are at historic lows.

Comment by Mic — 19 October, 2006 #
You realize that the tax cuts are purely for political purposes and have no basis in fiscal responsibility? The deficit is soaring, the military budget has grown by billions upon billions, and yet Bush grants tax cuts. Tax cuts are not always a good thing (especially when they mostly help only the rich). Of course, the reason Bush can afford to be this fiscally irresponsible is because the previous government was doing so well managing the government’s budget. Now Bush has taken the US a step back in that regard, and the next government, whoever that may be, will have to do the responsible thing and raise tax rates to keep up with the massive spending.
The deficit and debt are looming over the US. We can’t afford to be irresponsible with the value of our dollar, in what is a growing global economy, with the likes of China, the European Union and other countries coming up in the worldwide economy. The EU and other countries are going to be trading oil in euros, not US dollars, which in reality has no “real” value anymore. Once that happens, you can expect the real value of the US dollar to drop so badly, people will be carting in wheelbarrows full of cash to buy weekly groceries (kind of like what happened in Germany when their currency rapidly declined). Here’s a link explaining why the US debt and dollar is in so much trouble, and at the same time, will explain why Bush’s so called “war on terror”, inexplicably LEFT the place where the terrorists were (Afghanistan) and moved into Iraq on completely false pretenses. It was not about WMDs, it was most certainly not about terrorists, it was about oil and the US dollar. The war on terror has been so horribly mismanaged, with no observable gains made, that I can’t understand how you can even list that as something to like about Bush. Here’s the oil/dollar explanation…

http://www.energybulletin.net/12125.html

Comment by in fear — 19 October, 2006 #
And please clarify what you mean by the big brother comment. Do you mean you condone Bush’s Big Brother tactics and legislation against the American people?!

Comment by in fear — 19 October, 2006 #
The deficite is shrinking at record levels. You are just putting down lies now. Big Brother/Big Sis is the Democrat/Socialist form of government where “Government knows best.”

Comment by Mic — 19 October, 2006 #
Well, you may see it as shrinking at record levels, but that’s easy to do if you only look at the past year. When you consider that 2 years ago the deficit reached an all-time record high, there was really only one way to go, and that was down, so we’re back where we started, with the exception that tax rates have gone down while spending has gone up dramatically since Bush took over. Imagine you were running a household that just recently clawed back from your worst credit card debt ever, to get back to the same normal debt you usually have, EXCEPT now you’re spending more money than you ever have. Does this bode well for your finances?
And please, don’t tell me I’m putting down lies, when all I’ve done throughout this thread is link articles full of indisputable facts, while you have referenced absolutely nothing in your continually-disproven statements.
-
and regarding big brother…
oh great, so you really DO agree with the government taking away all your rights. Finally I have my answer to that question I asked about 5 times on whether or not you agreed with Bush demolishing the constitution. Why do you hate freedom, Mic?

Comment by in fear — 19 October, 2006 #
Read The Road to serfdom by Hayek.

You need some Economic 101. Something the liberal schoolsystem doesn’t want getting out.

Comment by Mic — 19 October, 2006 #
I don’t understand what you are trying to prove with “road to serfdom”. I see the parallels in Bush’s attempt at dictatorship.
And no thanks, I’ve taken Economics 101. Again, I’ve provided you with evidence, and you’ve proven nothing. Please, in this entire thread, point out something that you have successfully argued that has been backed up by evidence. Then compare that to the mountain of evidence and factual information I’ve piled in and you’ll see who’s won the debate. I can’t even call it a debate, because you’ve never actually illustrated a coherent point or made any rebuttal to any of the supported statements I made. You only see your own OPINION as truth.

Comment by in fear — 20 October, 2006 #
In Fear, here is a great comic strip that shows how a country turns to socialism by Hayek. http://www.mises.org/TRTS.htm

See more at sadbastards.wordpress.com.

Comment by Mic — 23 October, 2006 #
Germany was not socialist…

Also, little to nothing I have advocated on this blog has been skewed towards the socialist ideology…

Comment by junaman — 23 October, 2006 #
Again, I don’t see what you are trying to show with “road to serfdom.” The only parallels I see are the critical points I have made against Bush and his dictatorial ways. And unfortunately for me, it looks like none of my points or questions will ever be addressed. It was nice debating with… (er, at?) you, Mic.

Comment by in fear — 24 October, 2006 #
I would be happy to point out the parallels for you. Starting with number one and number two. The Democrat/Socialists soon after a war will ask that we continue to spend large amounts on not weapons of war, but social programs, free entitlements for the special voting blocks that turn out to elect them to power, i.e. unions, government workers, gays, (you know).

Comment by Mick — 25 October, 2006 #
My surprise here was to read that any person could read that fraudulent piece of fictional garbage and have it take away their faith and think also think that J was brilliant. the garbage he comes up with has been spewed out by for eons.
“The Divinci Code” has been proven to be a hoax. A big joke played on susceptable and ignorant people.
My thinking is if we all just tried to apply the principles of Christianity to our own lives instead of blaming those who fail at it…we would all be happier healthier and more lovable
human beings. The world would be a better place for everyone. So start with number one, and let it flow on.
Your life will be over soon enough J. and you will face the great divide and the mystery that awaits each one of us. If there is more how nice if not well we won’t even know about it will we?…. and who will give a tinkers damn what you think anyway….. so what
are you all on about.the same fate awaits us all whatever it is , heaven ,hell or nothingness.Try to be nice and make those closest to you glad you are around or is that really your trouble J they arn’t .

Comment by bluewren — 1 November, 2006 #
Umm… what are you talking about?
This thread is about torture… not Christianity

Comment by junaman — 1 November, 2006 #
Really ….. But I think you get my drift junaman…..You people do paint an awful picture of everything so much biased thinking and blame …it is scary.To think people like you are going around with all these ugly hateful accusations in your heads …do you ever think that People like George Bush even he just might think he has a job to do and is trying to do the best he can. It might be a hard call to be able to hold people without a trial for long periods …perhaps he is thinking of the terrorist suspects who so easily slip through the net because the constitution ties the hands of the police the FBI and whoever is involved in tracking these people down………. and that is all there is to it?
Maybe he thinks of the Innocent Americans who may be burnt and maimed for life because of bombs let off by these people who slip through the net for want of concrete evidence.
Why do you think that doesn’t matter?

Comment by bluewren — 1 November, 2006 #
Bluewren,

I think we know. Because those are Americans that were beheaded, burned alive or smashed like insects. Leftists and Islamo fascists are very happy about that.

Comment by Michael — 2 November, 2006 #
I like the way you set up that your info is the homepage, nicely done. Thanks!

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